Rank the US Presidents

#451
#451
Weezer said:
Lincoln didn't fight the Civil War to end slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation was a political move that came well after the war was started. His goal was to preserve the Union, not end slavery. It's one thing to say the war was fought over slavery. It was to a large degree because Southern states were afraid that Lincoln would try to abolish it, which ironically, their own actions sped up the end of slavery. But Lincoln himself was more concerned with stopping the spread of slavery to new states, and was willing to let existing slave states be. This is even demonstrated in his willingness to leave slave states that had remained in the Union be.
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I never said he did. He fought to preserve the Union at all costs but the end did justify the means because he achieved both
 
#452
#452
landscapingvol said:
I never said he did. He fought to preserve the Union at all costs but the end did justify the means because he achieved both
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Go back and read the quote I responded to. There's a line in there about him fighting to preserve the Union and end slavery.
 
#455
#455
Interestingly enough, today marked the anniversary of when Lincoln un-Constitutionally suspended the writ of habeas corpus in 1861.
 
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#458
#458
Credo said:
I wonder what if JFK was alive today, would he still consider himself a Democrat? Would Reagan regret the amnesty he gave to the illegal immigrants?
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Probably not a democrat. I believe there would’ve been negotiations amongst him and Reagan. Reagan/Trump/JFK wasn’t scared of no country either.
 
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#459
#459
Weezer said:
Go back and read the quote I responded to. There's a line in there about him fighting to preserve the Union and end slavery.
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He did fight to preserve the Union and yes slavery played a role in the Civil War but it wasn't the only reason. There were several reasons
 
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#461
#461
History has painted the South as the evil aggressor, but people forget, the South tried to secede peacefully. They gave the Union ample time to evacuate Fort Sumter and only attacked when Lincoln ordered the fort resupplied. And lest we forget, it was the North that invaded the South. But of course, the North, as the victors, got to write history. And most people take what they are taught at face value and refuse to look below the surface.
 
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#463
#463
Weezer said:
History has painted the South as the evil aggressor, but people forget, the South tried to secede peacefully. They gave the Union ample time to evacuate Fort Sumter and only attacked when Lincoln ordered the fort resupplied. And lest we forget, it was the North that invaded the South. But of course, the North, as the victors, got to write history. And most people take what they are taught at face value and refuse to look below the surface.
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Not sure I would even call that a battle but I doubt there was ever a long term peaceful solution. There were too many political instigators on both sides, Lee's worst mistake was invading the North.
 
#464
#464
Weezer said:
History has painted the South as the evil aggressor, but people forget, the South tried to secede peacefully. They gave the Union ample time to evacuate Fort Sumter and only attacked when Lincoln ordered the fort resupplied. And lest we forget, it was the North that invaded the South. But of course, the North, as the victors, got to write history. And most people take what they are taught at face value and refuse to look below the surface.
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That is kind of an absurd assertion. Beauregard put the fort under siege and demanded the US military abandon the fort. That is not peaceful and is an act of war. The south was the aggressor, though the war was going down no matter what.
 
#465
#465
ClearwaterVol said:
That is kind of an absurd assertion. Beauregard put the fort under siege and demanded the US military abandon the fort. That is not peaceful and is an act of war. The south was the aggressor, though the war was going down no matter what.
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The fort was in Charleston Harbor. The reasoning of South Carolina was quite clear. As a seceding state they felt themselves no longer under Union control and demanded Union forces leave their state. They were perfectly willing to let them leave freely, but Union forces refused, at the direction of Lincoln. It was akin to throwing trespassers off your property, or attempting to, and them refusing to leave. Lincoln knew what resupplying the fort would do, yet he did it anyway. He easily could have ordered the fort abandoned. Not to mention, there were zero casualties on either side.
 
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#466
#466
ClearwaterVol said:
That is kind of an absurd assertion. Beauregard put the fort under siege and demanded the US military abandon the fort. That is not peaceful and is an act of war. The south was the aggressor, though the war was going down no matter what.
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The Union peacefully left every other military installation in the confederate states so why did Lincoln choose to hang onto Sumter?

I’ll answer that for you, to antagonize and provoke, start the war he wanted.
 
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#468
#468
hog88 said:
The Union peacefully left every other military installation in the confederate states so why did Lincoln choose to hang onto Sumter?

I’ll answer that for you, to antagonize and provoke, start the war he wanted.
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See, you're right on this one. Lincoln was a horrible president.
 
#470
#470
Weezer said:
History has painted the South as the evil aggressor, but people forget, the South tried to secede peacefully. They gave the Union ample time to evacuate Fort Sumter and only attacked when Lincoln ordered the fort resupplied. And lest we forget, it was the North that invaded the South. But of course, the North, as the victors, got to write history. And most people take what they are taught at face value and refuse to look below the surface.
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Older Southerners still know it was the War of Northern Aggression. History is lost on the woke, though; and revisionists have won all the remaining points anyway.
 
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#471
#471
Weezer said:
History has painted the South as the evil aggressor, but people forget, the South tried to secede peacefully. They gave the Union ample time to evacuate Fort Sumter and only attacked when Lincoln ordered the fort resupplied. And lest we forget, it was the North that invaded the South. But of course, the North, as the victors, got to write history. And most people take what they are taught at face value and refuse to look below the surface.
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yup, I learned a lot of new wacko things in this thread
 
#472
#472
We must NEVER say anything bad about Saint Ron Reagan. He is a deity....

that Lincoln guy, though. trash. have at it ;)
 
#474
#474
It amazes me how few people have actually read history compared to how many simply regurgitate what they were taught.
 
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#475
#475
Weezer said:
History has painted the South as the evil aggressor, but people forget, the South tried to secede peacefully. They gave the Union ample time to evacuate Fort Sumter and only attacked when Lincoln ordered the fort resupplied. And lest we forget, it was the North that invaded the South. But of course, the North, as the victors, got to write history. And most people take what they are taught at face value and refuse to look below the surface.
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Went to Gettysburg a couple of years ago and was re-educated by Morgan Freeman about the Civil War. Apparently the history books were way off when I was in school.

I will say, If you are going to be re-educated, Morgan Freeman is the man you want to hear while doing it.
 
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