Realistically...

#52
#52
Some Tennessee fans have a loser mentality. It'll change for some of them as the program gets better. But there's plenty that will be able to hang on to it for a lot longer.
 
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#53
#53
LotteryPick said:
TAMU had a 9 win season 2 years prior. Not exactly a dumpster fire.

Manziel is rare. So is Winston.

If Riley Ferguson was that guy (doubtful), then UT would be looking at 7 or 8 wins.

The right QB changes everything.
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There is no reason that the talent they have at QB right now should not be sufficient to get to six or 7 wins this fall if the coaching across the board is better than '13... but particularly on D.

We spent time talking about Dobbs earlier. He was thrown into the fire. He did have some pretty good moments. I don't actually blame him for the losses very much. The biggest factor in all of those blowouts IMO was the D and the DC's failures. There was definitely a lack of talent. But that does not excuse poor playcalling, gameplanning, or the same mistakes repeated over and over.

IMHO, this same D roster would have been 5 or 6 ppg better under Wilcox. That would have translated into at least one and probably two additional wins.
 
#54
#54
vollygirl said:
Some Tennessee fans have a loser mentality. It'll change for some of them as the program gets better. But there's plenty that will be able to hang on to it for a lot longer.
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I think the greatest manifestation of a "loser attitude" is low expectations and excuses for poor performance by players OR coaches.

I do not want average coaches or players. I want to see championships which will take great talent and elite coaching. So far... the great talent took a big step forward. I have not seen evidence yet of elite coaching.
 
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#56
#56
sjt18 said:
There is no reason that the talent they have at QB right now should not be sufficient to get to six or 7 wins this fall if the coaching across the board is better than '13... but particularly on D.

We spent time talking about Dobbs earlier. He was thrown into the fire. He did have some pretty good moments. I don't actually blame him for the losses very much. The biggest factor in all of those blowouts IMO was the D and the DC's failures. There was definitely a lack of talent. But that does not excuse poor playcalling, gameplanning, or the same mistakes repeated over and over.

IMHO, this same D roster would have been 5 or 6 ppg better under Wilcox. That would have translated into at least one and probably two additional wins.
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If Coleman progresses and/or we find someone to replace him, the D will be improved.

Maggitt staying healthy would also be a help.
 
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#57
#57
LotteryPick said:
If Coleman progresses and/or we find someone to replace him, the D will be improved.

Maggitt staying healthy would also be a help.
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I actually agree with you on this... except I remain VERY skeptical of the DC. I really like the position coaches. I think UT stands a chance of surprising folks with the level of "talent" they have on D. The DL needs development and for some young/new guys to be VERY good. But it will help tremendously to have the whole secondary back augmented by incoming talent that WON'T be expected to carry a big load from the start. They can be coached up and eased in. LB should improve with Weatherd, JRM, AJ, and Maggitt.

But Jancek has two strikes against him already IMO. His first tenure in the SEC was FAR less than impressive at UGA. The start of his second tenure was about as bad. That guy REALLY needs to step it up and prove he belongs.
 
#58
#58
If were not a lot better on offense I expect we'll have a losing season. You have to score more than 10 points to win a game. I thinks were gonna score 30 a game and win 8 games.
 
#59
#59
sjt18 said:
I actually agree with you on this... except I remain VERY skeptical of the DC. I really like the position coaches. I think UT stands a chance of surprising folks with the level of "talent" they have on D. The DL needs development and for some young/new guys to be VERY good. But it will help tremendously to have the whole secondary back augmented by incoming talent that WON'T be expected to carry a big load from the start. They can be coached up and eased in. LB should improve with Weatherd, JRM, AJ, and Maggitt.

But Jancek has two strikes against him already IMO. His first tenure in the SEC was FAR less than impressive at UGA. The start of his second tenure was about as bad. That guy REALLY needs to step it up and prove he belongs.
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I'm done for the day.

We finally agree on something.
 
#60
#60
all i know is that on 10/4/14, butch jones is going to lead the tennessee volunteers to a victory over the florida gators.

will muschamp will be fired.

both programs will celebrate.
 
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#64
#64
LotteryPick said:
That won't happen.
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Now I have to disagree with you again.

I am not in the habit of making a lot of ironclad predictions about the future but UF will be a winnable game this fall if the coaches do their jobs well. Everyone in the East has roster issues to deal with in '14 except for UGA. UGA has coaching issues but plenty of talent. UF's issues are more with coaching than the roster but they have some holes to fill too and haven't been good on O for awhile.

BTW, I'm supposedly the negative one but you are the one writing off a winnable game? I guess you have to avoid the risk of the bar being set a little higher?
 
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#65
#65
sjt18 said:
Now I have to disagree with you again.

I am not in the habit of making a lot of ironclad predictions about the future but UF will be a winnable game this fall if the coaches do their jobs well. Everyone in the East has roster issues to deal with in '14 except for UGA. UGA has coaching issues but plenty of talent. UF's issues are more with coaching than the roster but they have some holes to fill too and haven't been good on O for awhile.

BTW, I'm supposedly the negative one but you are the one writing off a winnable game? I guess you have to avoid the risk of the bar being set a little higher?
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I'm not actually using logic with that game. I just refuse to call Florida a winnable game till it happens.
 
#66
#66
LotteryPick said:
I'm not actually using logic with that game. I just refuse to call Florida a winnable game till it happens.
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I never accused you of using logic... :)

That said, it is even worse if you aren't using logic. That would make you far more negative than me. All I have done is look at past results that were bad and call them bad then expressed simply that performance by the coaches had to improve. I've never said it wouldn't or couldn't. You protest that... then for no reason whatsoever make an ironclad prediction that UT will lose to UF.
 
#67
#67
Simply put. UF and UT are both programs at low ebb. They're both a "mess". That makes this a game all about which coach is better and has his team moving in the right direction.

UF has very good talent and an experience advantage. But they SHOULD have a significant coaching disadvantage if Jones is "the guy". Muschamp... is awful.
 
#70
#70
sjt18 said:
I never accused you of using logic... :)

That said, it is even worse if you aren't using logic. That would make you far more negative than me. All I have done is look at past results that were bad and call them bad then expressed simply that performance by the coaches had to improve. I've never said it wouldn't or couldn't. You protest that... then for no reason whatsoever make an ironclad prediction that UT will lose to UF.
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Ouch.

You're taking what I said too seriously. I'm just simply not going to call UF a win. It's a winnable game, but UT hasn't proven they can beat them, even during "winnable" years.
 
#71
#71
LotteryPick said:
Ouch.

You're taking what I said too seriously. I'm just simply not going to call UF a win. It's a winnable game, but UT hasn't proven they can beat them, even during "winnable" years.
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Agree. But don't we both hope that Jones is different? I am REALLY uncomfortable with what they did on the field last year... but that does not mean I want them to fail or even "expect" them to fail. I want more than anything for them to take a huge step forward this fall. I realize that may not mean more than a win or maybe two plus being more consistently competitive. But I could live with that. I just don't see that as an unreasonable expectation. But some here (maybe not you) are so desperate to set up built in excuses that they bristle at the very notion of even modest expectations for improvement.

At some point, elite coaching shines through.

Last year people complained about talent and time in system. I really don't see a huge drop off on the OL like many others from a pure talent standpoint. From a talent, experience, and development standpoint every other offensive position group should be better.

The DL could be a mess but Jancek and Stripling will have had the guys who will play for two years plus. They will have developed those guys THEIR way. It will NOT be a worse DL situation than the one Dooley inherited and made do with in '10 from a talent and experience standpoint. LB should be better talent wise as should DB.

This is all about coaching and development. The talent is what it is. The talent will not likely be enough to win against most of the better competition yet. But it will be close enough that with good coaching they can steal that 6th or 7th win.
 
#72
#72
sjt18 said:
I actually agree with you on this... except I remain VERY skeptical of the DC. I really like the position coaches. I think UT stands a chance of surprising folks with the level of "talent" they have on D. The DL needs development and for some young/new guys to be VERY good. But it will help tremendously to have the whole secondary back augmented by incoming talent that WON'T be expected to carry a big load from the start. They can be coached up and eased in. LB should improve with Weatherd, JRM, AJ, and Maggitt.

But Jancek has two strikes against him already IMO. His first tenure in the SEC was FAR less than impressive at UGA. The start of his second tenure was about as bad. That guy REALLY needs to step it up and prove he belongs.
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Jancek was never a DC at UGA. He was a LB coach and co-DC one season. Martinez was the DC at UGA then.

If you look at his defenses at Cincy (the only other place he's been a full DC) his defenses showed steady improvement each season. Until they were a damn good one his 3rd year.

I'm a big believer tht stability is huge for kids' development. As long as we see improvement from our D (I'm talking a move into a top 60 defense---which would be huge IMO considering the lack of depth and youth we'll have up front) I think we need to give him a 3rd season. With the young talent we have i think we could potentially see a huge jump in year three with needed stability.
 
#73
#73
sjt18 said:
Agree. But don't we both hope that Jones is different? I am REALLY uncomfortable with what they did on the field last year... but that does not mean I want them to fail or even "expect" them to fail. I want more than anything for them to take a huge step forward this fall. I realize that may not mean more than a win or maybe two plus being more consistently competitive. But I could live with that. I just don't see that as an unreasonable expectation. But some here (maybe not you) are so desperate to set up built in excuses that they bristle at the very notion of even modest expectations for improvement.

At some point, elite coaching shines through.

Last year people complained about talent and time in system. I really don't see a huge drop off on the OL like many others from a pure talent standpoint. From a talent, experience, and development standpoint every other offensive position group should be better.

The DL could be a mess but Jancek and Stripling will have had the guys who will play for two years plus. They will have developed those guys THEIR way. It will NOT be a worse DL situation than the one Dooley inherited and made do with in '10 from a talent and experience standpoint. LB should be better talent wise as should DB.

This is all about coaching and development. The talent is what it is. The talent will not likely be enough to win against most of the better competition yet. But it will be close enough that with good coaching they can steal that 6th or 7th win.
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Obviously, we all hope he's a great coach, but I'll just wait and see.

I see reasons for optimism and I think a lot of the games are toss ups, but we also have a lot of freshman getting meaningful minutes.

6-6 is my prediction and I'll stick with that until I hear some substantial evidence that they'll be better or worse.
 
#74
#74
LotteryPick said:
Obviously, we all hope he's a great coach, but I'll just wait and see.

I see reasons for optimism and I think a lot of the games are toss ups, but we also have a lot of freshman getting meaningful minutes.

6-6 is my prediction and I'll stick with that until I hear some substantial evidence that they'll be better or worse.
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That's why I point to coaching. IMO, coaching is the difference between 4, 5, 6, or 7 wins. I think it would take some very good breaks (like Mizzou got in '13) to do better than 7. I actually think six would be a very, very good coaching job and that 7 would point to "elite" ability. Six requires him to beat someone IMO that he "should not beat". Seven requires him to do it twice.

Five would be "average"... but again, average isn't good enough. To many here seem to be all too willing to defend "average". I just can't do it and ESPECIALLY after Dooley.
 
#75
#75
Darth_Shiveman said:
Jancek was never a DC at UGA. He was a LB coach and co-DC one season. Martinez was the DC at UGA then.

If you look at his defenses at Cincy (the only other place he's been a full DC) his defenses showed steady improvement each season. Until they were a damn good one his 3rd year.

I'm a big believer tht stability is huge for kids' development. As long as we see improvement from our D (I'm talking a move into a top 60 defense---which would be huge IMO considering the lack of depth and youth we'll have up front) I think we need to give him a 3rd season. With the young talent we have i think we could potentially see a huge jump in year three with needed stability.
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UGA's D wasn't good the whole time he was there.

I know you are trying to spin positive but I just don't think being good at Cincy translates to being qualified for the SEC. I have looked another layer deeper at the competition he faced at Cincy. It wasn't strong and that's being kind.
 
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