Realistically...

#76
#76
LotteryPick said:
I'm not actually using logic with that game. I just refuse to call Florida a winnable game till it happens.
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I remember you stating this in another thread but don't remember which one. I agree with you. Believe it when I see it and partying like a rockstar begins. :rock:
 
#80
#80
usmcvol4ever said:
Some people and fans are just delusional. Vols will never be what they once were, unfortunately.
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Of course, there was no internet between 1975-1982 but if there had been I imagine that a forum devoted to Vol football would have had messages like this on it. Things can change quickly with the right coaching hire (see both LSU and Alabama before and after Saban, Georgia before and after Richt, South Carolina before and after Holtz). It is too early to know if Jones is the right coach here or not but it's also too early to be this negative...and "never" is a very long time and this is nothing short of hyperbole.
 
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#81
#81
OrangeBlood4life said:
We will not stay down forever. Too many resources. We have what all the top schools have. Just bad hires sent us to the bottom. Happens to every school
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We have no in-state talent consistently. Other teams recruit nationally and have equal facilities. We don't have the competitive advantage we used to. Everyone else has caught on. Glory days are over. Be happy with 8 win seasons.
 
#82
#82
jimallvol said:
I personally think this season will be a lot better than last yr. GO VOLS!
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You mean you "personally HOPE this season will be a lot better than last year." There is no evidence that it will. In fact, all indicators point to a 5 wins at best if you look at what we lost and experience. We still don't have QB, and Ferguson isn't any better than the rest of them. Gonna be a while, if ever, until we get to 8-9 win seasons.
 
#83
#83
Neyland Law Vol said:
TN will not have another losing season while CBJ is the coach.
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Get ready because it's gonna happen this year. 4 to 5 wins at best. Florida will work out most of their kinks, South Carolina will not let us beat them again, and Georgia will run all over us. Missouri will hang 40 on our pathetic defense, and Oklahoma and Alabama are gonna embarrass us. So there is 6 losses for you right there. I fully expect Utah St. to go either way. Ole Miss will out-muscle us. I can easily see us winning only 4 games. Just being honest.
 
#84
#84
rcvol said:
We have no in-state talent consistently. Other teams recruit nationally and have equal facilities. We don't have the competitive advantage we used to. Everyone else has caught on. Glory days are over. Be happy with 8 win seasons.
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Huh?

When has Tennessee ever not had in state talent?

Some states produce more but last year we were loaded and next year looks even better.
 
#85
#85
Reading some of these posts, I am not near as negative as some of you.

All it takes is the right coach.

Step 1 is under way. Bring in some actual talent.

Step 2 is get that talent in a strength and conditioning program and get them to eat their flintstones vitamins and drink their milk.

Step 3 is coach'em up.

It may be another lean year because this year's Tennessee team can get into pg-13 movies, but for the first time in a while a coach brought in some serious talent.

Give him time to see if he can coach them up
 
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#86
#86
While the state of TN doesn't produce the amount of top tiered players as other states, there is some talent in TN. The key is to not let it get away. In the past: Bama, Ole Miss, ND, and USC have gotten some of these top players. If Butch can keep those guys then UT will be fine.
 
#87
#87
Wow rcvol! We have the facilities, tradition , stadium , and everything top schools have. Tennessee high school talent is getting better, and we are the only real school in Tennessee. Cmiiw but i dont think alabama has all that much more talent than Tennessee. Bama has to compete with auburn. Gators have to recruit against fsu and miami. The bad hires sent us spiraling. If bama or florifa or georgia had the bad hires like we did and that many coaches in x amount of years , they would be in the same boat. But with florida and Georgia it wouldnt take quite as long because of all the in state talent. We are on our way back. After a year or two , we will talent wise be on the big dogs level again.
 
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#88
#88
OrangeBlood4life said:
Wow rcvol! We have the facilities, tradition , stadium , and everything top schools have. Tennessee high school talent is getting better, and we are the only real school in Tennessee. Cmiiw but i dont think alabama has all that much more talent than Tennessee. Bama has to compete with auburn. Gators have to recruit against fsu and miami. The bad hires sent us spiraling. If bama or florifa or georgia had the bad hires like we did and that many coaches in x amount of years , they would be in the same boat. But with florida and Georgia it wouldnt take quite as long because of all the in state talent. We are on our way back. After a year or two , we will talent wise be on the big dogs level again.
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I wish I shared your optimism, but after we lose 7 games again this year, the recruiting will cool down as prospects reconsider. I think in the end Butch will be the victim of bad timing more than anything, which is beyond his control. Alabama, even with Auburn in the state, has tons more talent than Tennessee. In fact Tennessee 5A football would be the equivalent of 3A in Florida or Louisiana, etc. And you are right that everybody else has comparable facilities, so we don't have an advantage there anymore. Bama and LSU's stadiums are practically as big as ours. It's just a new era for UT football. Just be happy with 8 wins if we get there.
 
#89
#89
rcvol said:
I wish I shared your optimism, but after we lose 7 games again this year, the recruiting will cool down as prospects reconsider. I think in the end Butch will be the victim of bad timing more than anything, which is beyond his control. Alabama, even with Auburn in the state, has tons more talent than Tennessee. In fact Tennessee 5A football would be the equivalent of 3A in Florida or Louisiana, etc. And you are right that everybody else has comparable facilities, so we don't have an advantage there anymore. Bama and LSU's stadiums are practically as big as ours. It's just a new era for UT football. Just be happy with 8 wins if we get there.
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We will not be down forever. The ball has not bounced our way as of late. We were the big dogs for over a decade. It was bound to happen. It happens to everyone. The bad times make the good times better.
 
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#90
#90
My guess is still 6-6 and even 6 Wins will mean we have to beat a team we're not supposed to beat.

7 Wins this season means buTch and his staff did a outstanding job and should deserve a raise if they bring in a 2nd recruiting class like this years talent.

Experience and upperclassmen Leadership does mean alot and we lost lots of that this last year so time will tell how that works but but buTch is a serious motivator most of the time and he's changing the mindset and culture back to a Winning, can do, positive attitude and that also does count for alot despite what many may believe.

OL and DL both lost lots of experience and knowledge and QB is also a huge question mark but we all know in the SEC it all starts up front and if our linemen on both sides of the ball rise to the top then we'll be on our way back up.

RB and WR should be a strong position now as should be our LB and DB group.

With 2 more years of good recruiting and experience and knowledge then our beloved Vols WILL again become a feared force on the SEC and National radar.

NegaNinnies can spew whatever they want but it took us years to fall this far down and it will take a few more years to build us back up and buTch and staff took a good 1st step back upwards with this last recruiting class.

I will NEVER be happy with a 6-6 season and a 2nd rate bowl game but that's all a reasonable person can expect this season unfortunately.

Brick by brick, step by step consistent upward progress is what I expect to see every year.

The 1st real year under buTch has been good with this recruiting class and now he and his staff have a full year of game experience in the SEC so they've learned alot and have firsthand knowledge on what to expect and plan for and should have better gameplans against our normal SEC East rivals.

The 3rd and 4th years under buTch will tell us lots more than 1 season where we al knew he was way behind on talent and depth.

No matter what I'll always bleed Tennessee Orange!!!

#Brickbybrick...VFL...GBO!!
 
#91
#91
rcvol said:
I wish I shared your optimism, but after we lose 7 games again this year, the recruiting will cool down as prospects reconsider. I think in the end Butch will be the victim of bad timing more than anything, which is beyond his control. Alabama, even with Auburn in the state, has tons more talent than Tennessee. In fact Tennessee 5A football would be the equivalent of 3A in Florida or Louisiana, etc. And you are right that everybody else has comparable facilities, so we don't have an advantage there anymore. Bama and LSU's stadiums are practically as big as ours. It's just a new era for UT football. Just be happy with 8 wins if we get there.
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Lol
 
#92
#92
rcvol said:
I wish I shared your optimism, but after we lose 7 games again this year, the recruiting will cool down as prospects reconsider. I think in the end Butch will be the victim of bad timing more than anything, which is beyond his control. Alabama, even with Auburn in the state, has tons more talent than Tennessee. In fact Tennessee 5A football would be the equivalent of 3A in Florida or Louisiana, etc. And you are right that everybody else has comparable facilities, so we don't have an advantage there anymore. Bama and LSU's stadiums are practically as big as ours. It's just a new era for UT football. Just be happy with 8 wins if we get there.
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1) Everyone else doesn't have comparable facilities. I would say maybe 12 other programs share Tennessee's strengths of stadium, training center and practice fields. Now, granted six of them are in the SEC.
2) It is pure speculation to say that Tennessee's recruiting will cool down with another bad season. There was a thread on VN entitled "We can forget about a top 20 class" after the loss to Missouri but fortunately recruits are not as reactionary as some fans are and we really only lost one commitment we coveted after the season and he had grade issues - Lambert.
3) Middle Tennessee is growing in population and in terms of high school talent and I wouldn't stop there when talking about Tennessee's base. There is a high quality and quantity of talent within a 250 mile radius of Knoxville to draw from. This of course includes north Georgia, west to middle North Carolina (I would go as far as Greensboro) and southern Virginia (which we need to do better with admittedly). It is just wrong to assume that Tennessee can't successfully recruit these border states. A base does't stop at your border.
4) It is too early to tell if Jones is the right coach but he has the right approach to recruiting and brings an aggression and tireless work ethic to the table from what I've seen.
5) Before writing off the program as 2nd rate, I would wait to see what we are capable of doing once we have established stability and eliminated the revolving door of attrition associated with 3 coaching changes in 5 seasons.
6) The history of Tennessee football is one of peaks and valleys. We are obviously in a valley now but we were 0-6 in 1988 before winning 16 of our next 17 games. This is college athletics and things can turn on a dime.
7) I don't trust fans that are this negative and make definitive statements of eternal futility. I was hesitant to respond to this but most of your points are shrouded in speculation and the worst case scenario. The fact is Tennessee has a lot to sell and has the resources to be competitive nationally. Butch Jones is not a miracle worker but my guess is we will be a 10 win team by 2017.
 
#93
#93
BowlBrother85 said:
2) It is pure speculation to say that Tennessee's recruiting will cool down with another bad season. There was a thread on VN entitled "We can forget about a top 20 class" after the loss to Missouri but fortunately recruits are not as reactionary as some fans are and we really only lost one commitment we coveted after the season and he had grade issues - Lambert.
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I agree with the other stuff you wroe but this is NOT pure speculation. It is a consistent historical reality. Can you name a coach that continued to recruit well without posting an improved record before signing his 3rd class? If you can, they are few and very far between.

It may not be fair and none of us have to like it but if Jones doesn't get some wins then he won't continue having the kind of recruiting success he had this year. I think even an improvement to 6 wins would be sellable. But another five win season will just provide too much ammo to rival recruiters and too much doubt about the staff's ability to both players and HS coaches.

Dreams and promises only go so far before you have to show some results.

You also have to factor in the legacies and what they meant to this class. Several were outstanding talents and ALL were good recruiters for UT. I don't think there are a bunch of UT legacies in the '15 class, are there?
 
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