Reasons for QB and WR problems?

#26
#26
ALL I HEARD FROM CBJ was "we will adjust our Philosophy (offense)to the players" End quote. Now it's a different tune being played. I see some Orange Koolaid being spilled...
It's not like they are at Kent St. dealing with less than GREAT Athletes. Something is amiss....again.....ON ROCKY TOP !
 
#27
#27
OH and once again "the beaten wife" (our fan base) climbs aboard the Train, seeing no problems no issues.... In bUTch we Trust !
 
#28
#28
CBJ is in this for the long haul. Teaching great basic techniques will pay dividends down this road, this season and beyond. While he is trying to win every game this season, he is also making sure they (the coaches) don't cut any corners this year because having to come back to that in later years will be much worse overall. This is CBJ most important year, not necessarily in terms of wins (however, I think that is important to him) but to build this program from the ground up using his systems, his techniques and his level of detail.
 
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#29
#29
Benchwarmer said:
I noticed the following comments by the head coach and receivers coach this week. Essentially, all of our receivers are in their first year under Azzani, and they are all having to learn his system, whether they are freshmen or juniors. Since Azzani admits his way of teaching routes takes longer to learn and results in more dropped passes during the learning stage, I wondered how this might factor into the difficulties the QB's are having, also.

Zach Azzani: I teach routes a little bit different. My philosophy is a little bit different. It takes them longer to learn, so that's why you're seeing some dropped passes right now....Route technique isn't anywhere near where I want it to be, and it's not going to be as a freshman. It's going to keep getting better and better as the years, months, days go by.

Butch Jones: The receiver position is a technique driven position...playing with a high level of physicality and blocking. It is very demanding. We take great pride in the fundamental aspect of playing wide receiver, it is a detail oriented position. It is a demanding position. People think you just go out there, you run the route, you catch the football. It is a thinking position, and everything happens fast, especially when you are a no-huddle offense.

If the receivers cannot learn his route system well in a short period of time, it seems that at some point, you would just have to simplify things in order to get people ready to play these early games.

Here's where I'm going. It ultimately falls on the coaches to have their players ready to play when game time comes. If they are not ready, there's only so much blame you can put on the players.

Tell me what you think. Am I crazy, or does this have merit?
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Several of the players have expounded on this and it seems like the difference is in the small things that are part of the technique. So it sounds like there working alot on the technique ie. stance, how to properly come out of your stance, shifting weight, chopping their feet, bursting out of breaks.

Ultimately getting the fundamentals down now will only help these receivers individually and as a unit.
 
#30
#30
tomq_123 said:
CBJ is in this for the long haul. Teaching great basic techniques will pay dividends down this road, this season and beyond. While he is trying to win every game this season, he is also making sure they (the coaches) don't cut any corners this year because having to come back to that in later years will be much worse overall. This is CBJ most important year, not necessarily in terms of wins (however, I think that is important to him) but to build this program from the ground up using his systems, his techniques and his level of detail.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
#31
#31
Benchwarmer said:
I noticed the following comments by the head coach and receivers coach this week. Essentially, all of our receivers are in their first year under Azzani, and they are all having to learn his system, whether they are freshmen or juniors. Since Azzani admits his way of teaching routes takes longer to learn and results in more dropped passes during the learning stage, I wondered how this might factor into the difficulties the QB's are having, also.

Zach Azzani: I teach routes a little bit different. My philosophy is a little bit different. It takes them longer to learn, so that's why you're seeing some dropped passes right now....Route technique isn't anywhere near where I want it to be, and it's not going to be as a freshman. It's going to keep getting better and better as the years, months, days go by.

Butch Jones: The receiver position is a technique driven position...playing with a high level of physicality and blocking. It is very demanding. We take great pride in the fundamental aspect of playing wide receiver, it is a detail oriented position. It is a demanding position. People think you just go out there, you run the route, you catch the football. It is a thinking position, and everything happens fast, especially when you are a no-huddle offense.

If the receivers cannot learn his route system well in a short period of time, it seems that at some point, you would just have to simplify things in order to get people ready to play these early games.

Here's where I'm going. It ultimately falls on the coaches to have their players ready to play when game time comes. If they are not ready, there's only so much blame you can put on the players.

Tell me what you think. Am I crazy, or does this have merit?
Click to expand...

I agree ..this is what we kept hearing about 3-4 defense last year in preseason and it was a disaster . If its too hard then kids arent in college for ever to learn it ..they leave in 2-3-4 years ...it should be a simple system that you can come it play and impact immediately...
I am optimistic but I hope they don't repeat the sunseri stuff from last year or the 'clawfence' from fulmer's last year ...both cases **** was too complicated
 
#32
#32
volmandu said:
I agree ..this is what we kept hearing about 3-4 defense last year in preseason and it was a disaster . If its too hard then kids arent in college for ever to learn it ..they leave in 2-3-4 years ...it should be a simple system that you can come it play and impact immediately...
I am optimistic but I hope they don't repeat the sunseri stuff from last year or the 'clawfence' from fulmer's last year ...both cases **** was too complicated
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Lol at the notion that "kids" come to college to learn...
Shame on those coaches for making them learn something hard!
 
#33
#33
If by Florida they can't get it then something has to be simplified. We all know this fan base won't accept the "pre-excuse" set-up that is being done with these comments. This season will make or break this coaching staff no and, ifs, or buts about it.
 
#34
#34
I actually read that first post and took something different from it. It sounded to me like Butch was calling out Azzani for his teaching techniques.
 
#36
#36
Rock33 said:
ALL I HEARD FROM CBJ was "we will adjust our Philosophy (offense)to the players" End quote. Now it's a different tune being played. I see some Orange Koolaid being spilled...
It's not like they are at Kent St. dealing with less than GREAT Athletes. Something is amiss....again.....ON ROCKY TOP !
Click to expand...
Step away from the cliff dude.
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#38
#38
Benchwarmer said:
I noticed the following comments by the head coach and receivers coach this week. Essentially, all of our receivers are in their first year under Azzani, and they are all having to learn his system, whether they are freshmen or juniors. Since Azzani admits his way of teaching routes takes longer to learn and results in more dropped passes during the learning stage, I wondered how this might factor into the difficulties the QB's are having, also.

Zach Azzani: I teach routes a little bit different. My philosophy is a little bit different. It takes them longer to learn, so that's why you're seeing some dropped passes right now....Route technique isn't anywhere near where I want it to be, and it's not going to be as a freshman. It's going to keep getting better and better as the years, months, days go by.

Butch Jones: The receiver position is a technique driven position...playing with a high level of physicality and blocking. It is very demanding. We take great pride in the fundamental aspect of playing wide receiver, it is a detail oriented position. It is a demanding position. People think you just go out there, you run the route, you catch the football. It is a thinking position, and everything happens fast, especially when you are a no-huddle offense.

If the receivers cannot learn his route system well in a short period of time, it seems that at some point, you would just have to simplify things in order to get people ready to play these early games.

Here's where I'm going. It ultimately falls on the coaches to have their players ready to play when game time comes. If they are not ready, there's only so much blame you can put on the players.

Tell me what you think. Am I crazy, or does this have merit?
Click to expand...

all coaches coach / teach differently. that is a huge part of the problem with development of so many players on this current team. staff changes have been constant since end of 2007 season.

Just look at roster and count how many of the players have no developed even up to their high school ranking let alone exceeded it. It takes time for new coaches to begin to develop the players. it takes time for the players to understand what coaches expect. it takes time for the coaches to understand what it takes to get the players to understand what they expect. Coaches get 15 days in the spring and then August practice. not enough time for them to get everything perfected.

the first year is a lot of "getting to know each other". constant coaching instability has been a big part of the problem the last 5 years. Just think, Marlon Walls has not had the same coach teaching him for the 5th straight year. No wonder he has not developed.
 
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#40
#40
There is absolutely NO REASON for all these dudes to be dropping this many passes. None. If one or two dudes had the drops, that's one thing. But there are multiple guys having issues. These for the most part are big time receivers, even if young. Just saying.
 
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#41
#41
I really think this fan base has been scarred by the likes of the Clawfense :loco: and the Sal (Buddy Hackett) Defense :banghead2: . If you do some research on Azzani. You will see he has been very successful in all of his stops. If you watch the video's and see him pushing the receivers down into the correct position. Making them do things correctly. It is actually not that he is teaching them something "completely" different. Just teaching them better technique. I can understand the comments about getting more "simplistic" after some of the short bus coaches we've been through. I really think these kids will be fine. This staff has proven that they know how to teach football. So let's just sit back and let them coach and teach. I know it's been tough to see coaches come in and try to overhaul the way we do things. But this staff has been together for a much longer time than any of our previous staffs and have proven themselves. So let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Plus these kids have bought into this system and these coaches. And that goes a long ways in working to get it right. Go Vols.
 

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#44
#44
LWSVOL said:
all coaches coach / teach differently. that is a huge part of the problem with development of so many players on this current team. staff changes have been constant since end of 2007 season.

Just look at roster and count how many of the players have no developed even up to their high school ranking let alone exceeded it. It takes time for new coaches to begin to develop the players. it takes time for the players to understand what coaches expect. it takes time for the coaches to understand what it takes to get the players to understand what they expect. Coaches get 15 days in the spring and then August practice. not enough time for them to get everything perfected.

the first year is a lot of "getting to know each other". constant coaching instability has been a big part of the problem the last 5 years. Just think, Marlon Walls has not had the same coach teaching him for the 5th straight year. No wonder he has not developed.
Click to expand...

I know you are right about the effects of all the coaching changes, and it's a very good point to make. We all need to keep reminding ourselves of this.

However, I do want to add an extra comment to one thing you said.

Coaches get 15 days in the spring and then August practice. not enough time for them to get everything perfected.

This may not be a great analogy, but I'm going to use it anyway. A person gets a new job in Peru. He gets six months to learn Spanish before he has to move to Lima. Now, obviously, the learning is going to continue after he moves, and it will even accelerate, but he is not going to be able to do his job well early on. He's going to make mistakes.

If (and notice the "if") the passing game doesn't meet fans' expectations in the first few games, fans will come on here complaining about the ineptitude of the quarterbacks or the receivers or both. There won't be much tolerance among fans for the learning process taking longer.

My point in the original post is that players should not shoulder all the blame. Some of the blame, sure. It's not their fault that there is not more time to get everything perfected. It's not the coaches fault that there's not more time to get everything perfected. But it is the coaches' responsibility to put the players in the best position to succeed. And, using the analogy again, if you see the new employee is not grasping the finer nuances of Spanish, do you keep trying to get him to see them, or do you concentrate on getting him to speak the most basic phrases well?
 
#45
#45
Outside observers of a team practicing and practicing against itself seldom have the perspective to know what is behind any failure.

When Ainge had his disaster in 2005 followed by a pretty rough spring in 2006, I was among those ready for Crompton to get his shot. However Cut had a method to his madness. Ainge looked horrible all spring and not a whole lot better in the fall then lit a pretty decent Cal team up the first game of the season.

There could be a real problem here that cannot be corrected or overcome. There could also be coach planned and induced pressure for perfection that makes it look worse than it is.

Z knows. The HC and OC know... us? Not so much.

If I do not miss my guess, the "break them down period" is about to end in this camp. The pressure has been as high as Jones can ramp it up to see who steps up and who falls off. Now it is time to take the guys who you think are ready and build them back up in preparation for the season. There will probably be a few subtle changes in the way progress is going like "We're getting closer" or "It is beginning to slow down for....". The player interviews will start to reflect "We're ready to go out and see what we can do".

The military uses a common sense approach to training: crawl, walk, run. Crawl- leaders control everything, demand absolute perfection, and apply as much will breaking pressure as they can to conform individuals into a team. Walk- leaders begin to give more responsibility back to the trainees, rebuild confidence in the context of the team, and identify special skills. Run- you go do it, team members are confident and "feel" competent even though sometimes they aren't as good as they think (confidence leads to boldness which leads to initiative... and a lesser player who takes action beats a better player that delays).
 
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#46
#46
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
No it won't. Nobody is expecting much of anything this year.
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Ok bud...keep thinking that. :good!: This yr needs to be a 6-7+ min win season without fail for coaching staff to be able to ask for any kind of faith from the fan base and the commits/recruits. And the loses to our rivals, other than to probably Bama (hate saying it), need not be blow-outs but competitive games.

If u r are ok with less this yr that's your decision, but simmer down with the "nobody" talk.
 
#47
#47
Same people saying 6 wins is OK this year will have their pitchforks out in '15... most here will of course change their screen names as many have done before to escape embarrassing proclamations.
 
#48
#48
If it was an easy system, the competition could defend it easily! You are over-thinking this.

GO VOLS!! #Brick by Brick
 
#49
#49
Didn't want to start a new thread for this and this one fits.

Appeared to me Bray almost never looked at his check down instead he was always trying to force the ball down field. Much as been made about our RBs unwillingnrss to run inside but what they both do well is catch the ball. Haven't seen any conversation about hitting the RB's on swing routes, screens, dump offs and other ways of getting them the ball in space. Anyone seen them working on this in practice or is it part of the CBJ offense?
 
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#50
#50
Those that buy in to Azzanni's system & don't rely on their on instincts will be the ones in the field. Just embrace change as Croom did moving to the A position.
 
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