Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[Jackcrevol]

When I initially read this post, I thought you made a pretty good point. Still do, but here's a little of the difference between what Tennessee will be and what Oklahoma and Mississippi State are:

Central Florida was 110th in time of possession this year: 27:30 per game. The year before, they were worse at 25:42 per game.

Oklahoma 2020: 25th at 31:48.
Mississippi State 2020: 43rd at 30:57.

It is not simply that all high scoring offenses are the same. You can go TOO fast, which is why most teams have stopped using pure tempo 100% of the time. It is not a means by which you can have consistent success, especially at the SEC level.

iyam pure tempo is what coaches use, in a similar fashion to option backintheday, as a gimmick to mask lack of talent.

 

[Ron Swanson]

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

When I initially read this post, I thought you made a pretty good point. Still do, but here's a little of the difference between what Tennessee will be and what Oklahoma and Mississippi State are:

Central Florida was 110th in time of possession this year: 27:30 per game. The year before, they were worse at 25:42 per game.

Oklahoma 2020: 25th at 31:48.
Mississippi State 2020: 43rd at 30:57.

It is not simply that all high scoring offenses are the same. You can go TOO fast, which is why most teams have stopped using pure tempo 100% of the time. It is not a means by which you can have consistent success, especially at the SEC level.

Grinch made his rep at WSU, building a great defense out of 0-2* guys while working for Mike Leach. That is why I brought him up.

 

[Jackcrevol]

He knows how infuriating it makes us, I don't like that aspect about him. I used to listen to him and hubbs exclusively. I don't think DW is playing that game anymore. #Stoptheleaks

I cannot handle the tyrannical mentality. It shows to me a fragile ego. This is a big boy football program in a small Southern market. Media covers this program, like it or not.

It is most definitely two edged sword. On one hand it can bring excitment and revenue to a program. Or, it can serve as a counterbalance by reporting on not so fun things.

 

[Jackcrevol]

He knows how infuriating it makes us, I don't like that aspect about him. I used to listen to him and hubbs exclusively. I don't think DW is playing that game anymore. #Stoptheleaks

I cannot handle the tyrannical mentality. It shows to me a fragile ego. This is a big boy football program in a small Southern market. Media covers this program, like it or not.

It is most definitely two edged sword. On one hand it can bring excitment and revenue to a program. Or, it can serve as a counterbalance by reporting on not so fun things.

 

[jp1]

When I initially read this post, I thought you made a pretty good point. Still do, but here's a little of the difference between what Tennessee will be and what Oklahoma and Mississippi State are:

Central Florida was 110th in time of possession this year: 27:30 per game. The year before, they were worse at 25:42 per game.

Oklahoma 2020: 25th at 31:48.
Mississippi State 2020: 43rd at 30:57.

It is not simply that all high scoring offenses are the same. You can go TOO fast, which is why most teams have stopped using pure tempo 100% of the time. It is not a means by which you can have consistent success, especially at the SEC level.

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong here, but is there any formula that would say against better defenses TOP may actually go up a bit?

 

[tnhunter 10]

LWS in the FF said House is out.

Go get Gillespie

 

[Kingston Vol]

iyam pure tempo is what coaches use, in a similar fashion to option backintheday, as a gimmick to mask lack of talent.

For sure - but even that doesn't work anymore.

Offenses are able to go that fast because they call a lot of one-man or two-man routes - it has to be simple to move so quickly. Watch any UCF game and you'll see a ton of plays where there is only one read.

It doesn't work consistently when 1) the defense starts to figure it out and/or 2) when you're playing against someone like Patrick Surtain Jr. and a team full of great secondary players who can bridge the "tired" gap.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Grinch made his rep at WSU, building a great defense out of 0-2* guys while working for Mike Leach. That is why I brought him up.

Yeah, you're right, and I like Grinch a lot too.

But Leach's offense protects his defense a little more than this one does, even if it is high scoring and throws the ball more.

 

[volsfan_17]

When I initially read this post, I thought you made a pretty good point. Still do, but here's a little of the difference between what Tennessee will be and what Oklahoma and Mississippi State are:

Central Florida was 110th in time of possession this year: 27:30 per game. The year before, they were worse at 25:42 per game.

Oklahoma 2020: 25th at 31:48.
Mississippi State 2020: 43rd at 30:57.

It is not simply that all high scoring offenses are the same. You can go TOO fast, which is why most teams have stopped using pure tempo 100% of the time. It is not a means by which you can have consistent success, especially at the SEC level.

I think this is a good point, however I feel we're also not accounting for any type of tweaking in terms of the offensive style that might allow for TOP to be more SEC-ish.

The example I keep thinking about is when Florida hired Meyer, most thought his offense was too non-SEC to actually be successful, let alone win championships.

If CJH is successful here, it will be because he is able to adapt his offense to something that works in the conference. I don't think the DC search is a matter of not being able to succeed with CJH's offense. I think a lot of the delay is due to timing between when we made a move, and things like NSD, Super Bowl, and now the FBS season starting. It truly is an unprecedented time to be making a move most we're expecting to be 'normal'.

 

[Nashvegas31]

LWS in the FF said House is out.

Go get Gillespie

To the Moon!!! Lol I’m laughing not crying... I think nope I’m crying and I don’t even care for house much just ready for it all to be over and not end up with a sunseri

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah, you're right, and I like Grinch a lot too.

But Leach's offense protects his defense a little more than this one does, even if it is high scoring and throws the ball more.

Show your work here. You're just making a claim but providing zero evidence to back up this claim. Prove this.

 

[T Dog]

Supposed to have a job interview today, guess it is gonna have to wait. I don't have a 4 wheel drive.

 

[Kingston Vol]

I think this is a good point, however I feel we're also not accounting for any type of tweaking in terms of the offensive style that might allow for TOP to be more SEC-ish.

The example I keep thinking about is when Florida hired Meyer, most thought his offense was too non-SEC to actually be successful, let alone win championships.

If CJH is successful here, it will be because he is able to adapt his offense to something that works in the conference. I don't think the DC search is a matter of not being able to succeed with CJH's offense. I think a lot of the delay is due to timing between when we made a move, and things like NSD, Super Bowl, and now the FBS season starting. It truly is an unprecedented time to be making a move most we're expecting to be 'normal'.

I like Golesh and Elarbee so I am not complaining too much, but I wish Heupel would have brought in someone on the offensive side who has run successful offenses in the SEC. That would have pointed to me that he was serious about tweaking his offense to what it needs to be in this league.

The fact he didn't, and the fact Danny White and the football social media staff keep bragging about how fast this offense goes, leads me to believe we're going to run the UCF offense in 2021. We'll see how quickly they can adapt if/when it doesn't work.

 

[I4Jay]

Agreed. I believe DW is offering the right amount of money. The state of the program is the issue. Which points the blame to Pruitt for being so careless.

Bingo.
Pruitt and Fulmer dropped the Hulk Hogan Leg drop on us.
We were woozy and they finished us.

the thought that a defensive coordinator is not choosing this place Bc of a fast paced offense is beyond ridiculous. especially when you look around America and nearly everyone is putting in over offensive 75 plays per game

 

[Kingston Vol]

Show your work here. You're just making a claim but providing zero evidence to back up this claim. Prove this.

I just posted Mississippi State's time of possession stats vs. UCF's. That's a clear indicator of speed. Especially when you consider UCF was the most talented team in their conference, and Mississippi State was one of the least talented.

Usually better teams can hold the ball longer.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Makes sense, and if I was Gus I'd be looking for a job in Florida too. Guess we'll see if he's "washed up" afterall.

 

[volsfan_17]

I like Golesh and Elarbee so I am not complaining too much, but I wish Heupel would have brought in someone on the offensive side who has run successful offenses in the SEC. That would have pointed to me that he was serious about tweaking his offense to what it needs to be in this league.

The fact he didn't, and the fact Danny White and the football social media staff keep bragging about how fast this offense goes, leads me to believe we're going to run the UCF offense in 2021. We'll see how quickly they can adapt if/when it doesn't work.

But technically CJH has experience in running an SEC offense. Was what he did at Missouri detrimental to the defensive side of the ball?

 

[drvenner]

When I initially read this post, I thought you made a pretty good point. Still do, but here's a little of the difference between what Tennessee will be and what Oklahoma and Mississippi State are:

Central Florida was 110th in time of possession this year: 27:30 per game. The year before, they were worse at 25:42 per game.

Oklahoma 2020: 25th at 31:48.
Mississippi State 2020: 43rd at 30:57.

It is not simply that all high scoring offenses are the same. You can go TOO fast, which is why most teams have stopped using pure tempo 100% of the time. It is not a means by which you can have consistent success, especially at the SEC level.

And who is to say that Heupel will not adapt? He has not shown evidence of slowing down, yet, but he has not been HC in the SEC, either. I think he is smart enough to know when to take the foot off the gas.

 

[CeJayVols]

go get Charlton Warren and call it a day. He liked when he was in Knoxville before and great recruiter especially in Atlanta area. Might be the best choice at this point.

 

[I4Jay]

Usually better teams can hold the ball longer.

Or score faster.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Yeah, you're right, and I like Grinch a lot too.

But Leach's offense protects his defense a little more than this one does, even if it is high scoring and throws the ball more.

Dear lord man..do you really not see that throughout his career JH has operated at diverse tempos? It seems like you are just nitpicking.

The guy is a great OC, that is proven now over many years, he is not rigid like you are implying, either in tempo or scheme.

 

[Kingston Vol]

And who is to say that Heupel will not adapt? He has not shown evidence of slowing down, yet, but he has not been HC in the SEC, either. I think he is smart enough to know when to take the foot off the gas.

I hope so! Totally possible he'll adjust if things aren't working.

Just because I was interested, here were Missouri's Time of Possession stats when he was OC:

2016: 128th in the country (last), 23:19 per game.
2017: 128th in the country (third to last), 25:17 per game.

 

[jdavis675]

I like Golesh and Elarbee so I am not complaining too much, but I wish Heupel would have brought in someone on the offensive side who has run successful offenses in the SEC. That would have pointed to me that he was serious about tweaking his offense to what it needs to be in this league.

The fact he didn't, and the fact Danny White and the football social media staff keep bragging about how fast this offense goes, leads me to believe we're going to run the UCF offense in 2021. We'll see how quickly they can adapt if/when it doesn't work.

This again. Insert [eye roll emoji]. Your crusade against JH is more than tiresome. We get it.

I think there is plenty of room to doubt JH, but the guy had successful offenses in the SEC at Mizzou and did an outstanding job with Drew Lock.

 

[Vols2DaWall]

I like Golesh and Elarbee so I am not complaining too much, but I wish Heupel would have brought in someone on the offensive side who has run successful offenses in the SEC. That would have pointed to me that he was serious about tweaking his offense to what it needs to be in this league.

The fact he didn't, and the fact Danny White and the football social media staff keep bragging about how fast this offense goes, leads me to believe we're going to run the UCF offense in 2021. We'll see how quickly they can adapt if/when it doesn't work.

Agree with this a lot. We can't aim for 90 plays per game. I think Heupel will fail here if he doesn't adjust