Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[MoCo_Vol]

I feel ya @jakez4ut I just think Tony's running with assumptions that aren't rooted well in facts.

Ultimately I think it's always going to come down to how badly a player wants it. The coaches can help guide you along the way and the closer to the NFL ya get the less guidance you're given. But if you can take it all in the good & bad and develop you're going to play on Sundays.

A few small "chance" things impact it you got no control over size & health. But even those have been things that can be overcame if you're able to soak up all the guidance and improve yourself. Also feel like coaches develop as they progress in their careers as well, I would say WM now is better than he was then. He'll also get better working with Banks & Banks should get better working with him.

 

[m1al]

I don’t know about his relationship with coaches but Coleman and Mosley were both low rated finds.... those guys take awhile to develop sometimes. .... they are bad examples for his point.

Not to mention, Mosley was tiny when he arrived and put on A LOT of weight (compared to his frame size) very fast. It takes time to get used to a change like that..

Am I remembering right? That was Mosley, right?

 

[yourstruly23]

Wasn't mosley an undersized 2 star that he helped get into the league though?

and recruited and developed Cam Sutton

 

[SpringBokVol]

Bet @Ron Swanson $100 he'll be a complete failure.

Deal. And then he can donate to a good cause.

FWIW @Ron Swanson - I made the donation yesterday. Thanks for sending that link.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

SpaceX is launching thousands of satellites to provide quality internet to the entire world with very little infrastructure needed. Just buy a $500 dish and boom. Fast internet.

Satellite dish internet is not good for gaming and streaming also what do you do if there is inclement weather?

 

[NMVol]

The Hooker get just seemed to slide in under the radar. I'm just picking up on it in the last few days. That's an intersting personell development for the O. On the D I am really curious how the Memphis 3 will come on. Just a variable that could turn out to be highly significant. I always look for a reason to hope for the best. Don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that the team hits the ground running under this new coaching staff.

 

[NMVol]

Satellite dish internet is not good for gaming and streaming also what do you do if there is inclement weather?

The snow on my windshield totally shut down the Bluetooth/FM phone connection in my vehicle yesterday.

 

[Batman1948]

There's lost of players from the Dooley era into early Butch years that I'm surprised have made careers for themselves in the NFL. But the NFL scouts looked at how bad our teams were and undervalued our players coming out because of it. If you can get a solid DB as a UFA without having to use a draft pick you will always do that & take a chance, the fact those guys were able to hang has everything to do with how they were developed in college, because the NFL isn't in that market more time is spent finding the guys and less developing them.

If you want to point to some headscratchers from WM era I'd look at these guys specifically.

View attachment 352546

Nationally rated top 250 guys usually end up in the league, and although he wasn't the Primary on all the guys to see TK, Byrd, Osborne, Abernathy, Martin, Everett, Payne not playing on Sundays would be where you could ask the questions. He can develop guys has done it with plenty of 2/3 star talent, but why can't he get the most outta the higher rated guys?

I think some higher rated guys feel everything should be just given to them simply because they have been given the higher rating and don't necessarily work as hard. Some lower rated guys may be just a little hungrier and work harder.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

It's probably just a lack of continuity in regards to coaching staff and schemes.

I'm not arguing we've had good coaches or schemes, but you can't see what a player truly is without consistency.

Yeah..you're probably right. I think Jancek leaving combined with Botch's disastrous S&C malfunction was a big cause.

I also think that laziness, or more precisely "competitive apathy" has afflicted the program since the early 2000s. I think that is what Pope was alluding to, but I don't think that it was just this years squad. It has been almost a default setting for the program for a long time.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Satellite dish internet is not good for gaming and streaming also what do you do if there is inclement weather?

Latency isn't a big deal for streaming. You can definitely stream with satellite internet.

Gaming on the other hand isn't going to work too well.

 

[NMVol]

Yeah..you're probably right. I think Jancek leaving combined with Botch's disastrous S&C malfunction was a big cause.

I also think that laziness, or more precisely "competitive apathy" has afflicted the program since the early 2000s. I think that is what Pope was alluding to, but I don't think that it was just this years squad. It has been almost a default setting for the program for a long time.

After the NC Fulmer experienced a poverty of riches in recruiting--corresponds to when the culture began to decline. Snowball ensued. Obviously some programs have been able to manage sustained recruiting at a high level better.

 

[Vols4us]

The funny thing though is that Moseley was a QB in high school. He was a great find by that staff. In hindsight, people have criticized his college development, but they are the ones who gave him a P5 offer and put him at that position.

In addition to QB, he played S on D in HS as well as in the state's all star game because I watched him play (had a good game). He was so skinny they had to move him to CB when he got to UT. He did not figure CB out until his senior season when he gained a bit more muscle and a lot more experience.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

I pay like $115 for the co-op aka monopoly in my area and my speeds are...
View attachment 352541

Course with schools out there may be more traffic at this time of day than normal. Still Starlink would be a lot faster for a bit less...

That’s awful. Lol. Can you not get DSL that is Atleast 50 to 100Mbps?

 

[Nashvegas31]

Also neither Moseley nor Coleman have started consistently. Coleman has averaged just 5 starts a year, Moseley just 6 (both rounded up).

Coleman has never been the highest paid DB in the league, not once. Right now he's 20th based on yearly average and that's just because Detroit overpaid to get him before the 2019 season.

He was the highest paid Nickle when he signed Detroit deal. Nobody said highest paid DB

 

[volbeast33]

They are perfect examples. I remember Coleman missing tackles and coverages. People were screaming to get him out of the lineup. Then at one point he became the highest paid DB in the NFL? That’s a pretty drastic improvement.

Coleman had pretty good stats.... fourth leading tackler on team one season..... fourth in sec in interceptions his senior...... was projected to be a fifth round pick..... fell to UFA bc he was slightly undersized at 5’11 185 pounds..... he was with WM for two seasons...... Coleman had been in the league for three years before he was traded for a 7th round draft pick.... that year was the first year he saw any significant action....I don’t know if WM is a good DB coach but I don’t feel these are good indications of whether he can coach or not.... I also don’t think cam Sutton is and indication he is a good coach either.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

Even worse than I thought it would be. But OK got the players they needed.

Kids will get the hint that the grass isn’t always greener.

 

[Batman1948]

Like North Texas did this year, it would be fascinating to watch some smaller programs completely ax their recruiting budget and just pull 100% from the portal every year.

With so many players desperate now that they are trapped in the portal you’d think a really small school may actually tremendously benefit from that model

Those guys are in the portal for a reason. Some were starters who got hurt and couldn't win their spot back and others may just be disgruntled due to any number of reasons. Either way, without changes to the system, only grad transfers are granted immediate eligibility so it would be really difficult to maintain a solid roster just by recruiting from the portal. It would be constant one and done guys if they're grad transfers.

 

[jakez4ut]

I feel ya @jakez4ut I just think Tony's running with assumptions that aren't rooted well in facts.

Ultimately I think it's always going to come down to how badly a player wants it. The coaches can help guide you along the way and the closer to the NFL ya get the less guidance you're given. But if you can take it all in the good & bad and develop you're going to play on Sundays.

A few small "chance" things impact it you got no control over size & health. But even those have been things that can be overcame if you're able to soak up all the guidance and improve yourself. Also feel like coaches develop as they progress in their careers as well, I would say WM now is better than he was then. He'll also get better working with Banks & Banks should get better working with him.

well, i typically don't put any stock in to anything TB says, and i don't listen to his show.

but on this particular point, and this is all i was getting at the whole time i've discussed this, i understand the notion that says guys weren't developed enough in the defensive backfield. i mean, criticism of DB's was a regular occurrence on here when he was here with Butch. if i read "turn your head" once, i read it a million times.......

Anyway....initially, EM and JC were two guys that were easy targets, as most would agree, neither of them ever looked like NFL caliber DB's when they played here. i remember people feeling bad for Mosely....cause the perception was that he wasn't getting taught right....lol.

then volbeast 33 put the notion that they may not be the best examples of that given where they started, and just how much development they needed from start to finish.....a point that i acknowledged.

nevertheless, i was still shocked to see Mosely thriving as an NFL DB and Coleman balling out as a nickel....my initial reaction to both of those developments was "wow, wish we could have seen that in Knoxville...". and i think that's where Tony was coming from, not so much comparing production #'s in college to the NFL.....that they were even in the NFL was the basis of the statement.

and i get what you're saying about projections in the draft and all...but i don't remember either of them getting any draft run....much less where they were projected, i'd have to go look that up to find out, and that's kind of my point...... in the end, they were both undrafted free agents. they made teams, and they've had solid careers. i'm still surprised by that....lol.

 

[volbeast33]

Those NFL scouts look at things your average fan doesn't. They usually are looking for a specific skill set to match what their team needs. I think that is why so many NFL players come from smaller schools and are players we, as the average fan, have never heard of.

James Harrison one of my favorite all time players is an UFA for the Steelers.

 

[jakez4ut]

I think some higher rated guys feel everything should be just given to them simply because they have been given the higher rating and don't necessarily work as hard. Some lower rated guys may be just a little hungrier and work harder.

i think for a lot of those kids, part of the problem was the guy doing the selling. Butch could sell and recruit. he did not know how to derecruit....at all....and i think that was a bigger problem than we know....imagine being a position coach, and your HC is making promises about who knows what....kinda undercuts you with the rest of the guys in your room........................... there were reasons why several of the coaches left....

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

Yes, we expect the electricity to go out with every storm with tree limbs falling on power lines. Easy to say someone else should make sure we are okay. Would be really nice if we could gradually start moving away from lines on poles though.

Our neighborhood has all buried lines. Rare for storms to cause power outages, unless a transformer goes out. It’s nice, but then the generators freeze and it doesn’t matter

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

The snow on my windshield totally shut down the Bluetooth/FM phone connection in my vehicle yesterday.

I don’t know if you are being facetious. But atmospheric interference with rays is way different for things like internet and satellite tv.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Yeah..you're probably right. I think Jancek leaving combined with Botch's disastrous S&C malfunction was a big cause.

I also think that laziness, or more precisely "competitive apathy" has afflicted the program since the early 2000s. I think that is what Pope was alluding to, but I don't think that it was just this years squad. It has been almost a default setting for the program for a long time.

Right, and you can't blame the kids for feeling this way. It's two pronged:

1) None of these guys remember Tennessee being anything other than mediocre. So when they put in the work but we still suck, they accept it for what it is. "It's not my fault, it's the program."

2) I'm sure it's very tough to give your all when you know your coach is doing a bad job and is very likely to be fired.

 

[WarMachine]

Dobb's personal brand merch.

 

[volbeast33]

Not to mention, Mosley was tiny when he arrived and put on A LOT of weight (compared to his frame size) very fast. It takes time to get used to a change like that..

Am I remembering right? That was Mosley, right?

Yeah..... you are correct