KB5252
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Recruiting Forum Football Talk VI
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Weezer
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SmokinBob
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Fall Creek Falls!
ChattaTNVol
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Miscellaneous notes –
Kentucky brought back Liam Coen to revive its moribund offense from last year. When Coen was there in 2021 the Cats won 10 games. Coen was on a 2-yr contract at 750k per year with a built-in 25k raise for 2022. He left after that 2021 season (his contract called for him to pay UK 150k as a buyout) and returned to the LA Rams (who had just won the super bowl with the 9th best offense in the NFL). Kevin O’Connell, the previous Rams OC had just been hired as the HC for the Vikings. Under Coen’s direction the Rams offense fell to dead last in the NFL in his one year there. There were a lot of injuries and they lost of a lot from their super bowl team but falling to dead last in offense wasn’t exactly the expectation. jmo.
Against teams (2) that finished the season ranked by the AP in 2021, Coen’s Kentucky offense averaged 16.5 points per game. Against the 5 FBS teams Kentucky played in 2021 that finished the season with a winning record, Coen’s Cat offense averaged 21.6 points per game. By comparison, in 2021 we played 5 teams that finished ranked by the AP and averaged 29.2 points per game against those opponents. We played 7 FBS teams in 2021 that finished the season with a winning record and averaged 33.7 points per game against those opponents. Anyway, Stoops brought Coen back to Lexington, this time with a salary of 1.7 million per year and a 100k raise per year for a 3-year deal. If Coen chooses to leave early this time he doesn’t have to pay any buyout. Stoops was desperate. jmo.
I often try to qualify a team’s schedule for quality of opponents. Phil Steele used to only look at how teams performed against conference opponents and I use that sometimes but it doesn’t account for teams that are having down years. FBS teams that finished the season with a winning record is a bit more challenging and performance against teams that finish the season ranked by the AP is maybe the most challenging for comparison purposes. I read on the Kentucky message board that in his 10 years in Lexington Stoops has only beat 2 SEC teams that finished the season with a winning SEC record. Heupel did that last year alone (LSU & UA, both 6-2 SEC records) and also beat UK (5-3 SEC record) in 2021.
Regarding Colorado and the “give the coach time to flip the roster”, this is I think the last year where the 25-man signing limit (initial counters) is suspended so if you need to flip your roster you can do it in one year, but I think that only applies to this year and last year, as far as I know. Last year Colorado’s roster was ranked by 247 to be the 63rd best roster in the nation. In looking at the average recruit rating of the 59 commits they have so far it looks like they could end up with a top 25 roster this year, maybe top 20. Their average right now is 88.10. Our average last year was 87.77 and 247 rated our roster as 19th best in 2022. I think we move up maybe 2 or 3 or so spots in this year’s roster rankings. Colorado’s problem is they’ll have no returning production so no experience in their systems in any phase of the game. I think they have a good OC (Sean Lewis) and I’m not sure about Charles Kelly as the DC but he’s worked for us and Saban so he probably knows something. I think they’ll score some points but I don’t know how many games they’ll win in year one. The point is Colorado could end up with on paper the 3rd best roster in the Pac-12 this year. It may take a year or two for that to translate but it could work. jmo.
Speaking of performance against teams that finished the season ranked in the AP Top 25, since and including 2015, we have played 34 such teams and Georgia has played 37 such teams. I used 2015 as the start year because that is the year just prior to Kirby’s arrival at Georgia. There is some thinking that Georgia will fall somewhat back to earth this year, not that they don’t still have an excellent chance to get back to Atlanta and beyond, just that similar to Alabama, no matter how well you recruit, there will still be ups and downs, just not really big downs. Generally teams that recruit as well as Alabama and Georgia are likely to have a pretty high floor. Everybody has already declared that Georgia has a cakewalk of a schedule this year and there is only one team they’ll face that may be able to derail their delusions of a three-peat, the Tennessee Volunteers, on November 18th in Neyland Stadium.
If you exclude the Georgia and South Carolina games from last year our rating would have been 13.5 vs teams that finished in the AP Top 25, essentially the same rating as Georgia’s 2021 national championship team. The point is for us to improve on last year’s performance we’ll have to show up for EVERY game, on both sides of the ball, and in every phase of the game. Just show up. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. jmo.
Heupel said on his stop here in Chattanooga with the Big Orange Caravan that Tennessee will be playing ELITE defense. He repeated that when the Caravan made its stop in the Tri-Cities. I don’t know when that’s going to happen but I think it starts with fixing our secondary. We have a lot more competition in the backend this year and presumably will be significantly more healthy. It may be a stretch to get to elite this year without more talent at Safety but I think it’s probably safe to anticipate marked improvement in our pass defense this season. jmo.
Regarding our schedule, a lot of people in college football are noting the issues with Florida’s offense and of course the questions at QB for Alabama, but I’ve been somewhat uneasy about the A&M game, owing to their talent and returning production. They return 10 starters on offense and 9 starters on defense. This much I can say, after watching the first half of their spring game, we may not have anything to worry about. To me they looked really lethargic but one thing that jumped out at me was Jimbo was standing behind the offense talking to the QBs in between plays. The big question some have about the Petrino hire is will Jimbo let go of the offense. Offense is his element and identity. Both he and Bobby are thought to have outsized egos so if I had to guess, I’d say they may be in for a bumpy ride and if the powers that be don't want Jimbo calling the shots anymore, well, I honestly don't think he'll be all that upset with his buyout. jmo.
In the spring of 2021 after the FPI & SP+ models came out and looking at the returning production numbers I said I thought we had 5 wins 4 toss-ups and 3 losses and if we could win 2 of the toss-ups that would be pretty good. That's what we did. Last spring I said my read on the models suggested we had 5 wins, 6 toss-ups, and 1 loss, and I thought we might be able to win 10+ games, which is also what we did. This year my read on the models suggest that we have 8 wins, 3 toss-ups, and 1 loss (barely). I've seen a number of fans expecting 8-4 or 9-3 this year and that may be the way things sort out but if we can remain relatively healthy, we still have a lot of older guys, so I won't be surprised if this year we finally get back to Atlanta. jmo.
Kentucky brought back Liam Coen to revive its moribund offense from last year. When Coen was there in 2021 the Cats won 10 games. Coen was on a 2-yr contract at 750k per year with a built-in 25k raise for 2022. He left after that 2021 season (his contract called for him to pay UK 150k as a buyout) and returned to the LA Rams (who had just won the super bowl with the 9th best offense in the NFL). Kevin O’Connell, the previous Rams OC had just been hired as the HC for the Vikings. Under Coen’s direction the Rams offense fell to dead last in the NFL in his one year there. There were a lot of injuries and they lost of a lot from their super bowl team but falling to dead last in offense wasn’t exactly the expectation. jmo.
Against teams (2) that finished the season ranked by the AP in 2021, Coen’s Kentucky offense averaged 16.5 points per game. Against the 5 FBS teams Kentucky played in 2021 that finished the season with a winning record, Coen’s Cat offense averaged 21.6 points per game. By comparison, in 2021 we played 5 teams that finished ranked by the AP and averaged 29.2 points per game against those opponents. We played 7 FBS teams in 2021 that finished the season with a winning record and averaged 33.7 points per game against those opponents. Anyway, Stoops brought Coen back to Lexington, this time with a salary of 1.7 million per year and a 100k raise per year for a 3-year deal. If Coen chooses to leave early this time he doesn’t have to pay any buyout. Stoops was desperate. jmo.
I often try to qualify a team’s schedule for quality of opponents. Phil Steele used to only look at how teams performed against conference opponents and I use that sometimes but it doesn’t account for teams that are having down years. FBS teams that finished the season with a winning record is a bit more challenging and performance against teams that finish the season ranked by the AP is maybe the most challenging for comparison purposes. I read on the Kentucky message board that in his 10 years in Lexington Stoops has only beat 2 SEC teams that finished the season with a winning SEC record. Heupel did that last year alone (LSU & UA, both 6-2 SEC records) and also beat UK (5-3 SEC record) in 2021.
Regarding Colorado and the “give the coach time to flip the roster”, this is I think the last year where the 25-man signing limit (initial counters) is suspended so if you need to flip your roster you can do it in one year, but I think that only applies to this year and last year, as far as I know. Last year Colorado’s roster was ranked by 247 to be the 63rd best roster in the nation. In looking at the average recruit rating of the 59 commits they have so far it looks like they could end up with a top 25 roster this year, maybe top 20. Their average right now is 88.10. Our average last year was 87.77 and 247 rated our roster as 19th best in 2022. I think we move up maybe 2 or 3 or so spots in this year’s roster rankings. Colorado’s problem is they’ll have no returning production so no experience in their systems in any phase of the game. I think they have a good OC (Sean Lewis) and I’m not sure about Charles Kelly as the DC but he’s worked for us and Saban so he probably knows something. I think they’ll score some points but I don’t know how many games they’ll win in year one. The point is Colorado could end up with on paper the 3rd best roster in the Pac-12 this year. It may take a year or two for that to translate but it could work. jmo.
Speaking of performance against teams that finished the season ranked in the AP Top 25, since and including 2015, we have played 34 such teams and Georgia has played 37 such teams. I used 2015 as the start year because that is the year just prior to Kirby’s arrival at Georgia. There is some thinking that Georgia will fall somewhat back to earth this year, not that they don’t still have an excellent chance to get back to Atlanta and beyond, just that similar to Alabama, no matter how well you recruit, there will still be ups and downs, just not really big downs. Generally teams that recruit as well as Alabama and Georgia are likely to have a pretty high floor. Everybody has already declared that Georgia has a cakewalk of a schedule this year and there is only one team they’ll face that may be able to derail their delusions of a three-peat, the Tennessee Volunteers, on November 18th in Neyland Stadium.
If you exclude the Georgia and South Carolina games from last year our rating would have been 13.5 vs teams that finished in the AP Top 25, essentially the same rating as Georgia’s 2021 national championship team. The point is for us to improve on last year’s performance we’ll have to show up for EVERY game, on both sides of the ball, and in every phase of the game. Just show up. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. jmo.
Heupel said on his stop here in Chattanooga with the Big Orange Caravan that Tennessee will be playing ELITE defense. He repeated that when the Caravan made its stop in the Tri-Cities. I don’t know when that’s going to happen but I think it starts with fixing our secondary. We have a lot more competition in the backend this year and presumably will be significantly more healthy. It may be a stretch to get to elite this year without more talent at Safety but I think it’s probably safe to anticipate marked improvement in our pass defense this season. jmo.
Regarding our schedule, a lot of people in college football are noting the issues with Florida’s offense and of course the questions at QB for Alabama, but I’ve been somewhat uneasy about the A&M game, owing to their talent and returning production. They return 10 starters on offense and 9 starters on defense. This much I can say, after watching the first half of their spring game, we may not have anything to worry about. To me they looked really lethargic but one thing that jumped out at me was Jimbo was standing behind the offense talking to the QBs in between plays. The big question some have about the Petrino hire is will Jimbo let go of the offense. Offense is his element and identity. Both he and Bobby are thought to have outsized egos so if I had to guess, I’d say they may be in for a bumpy ride and if the powers that be don't want Jimbo calling the shots anymore, well, I honestly don't think he'll be all that upset with his buyout. jmo.
In the spring of 2021 after the FPI & SP+ models came out and looking at the returning production numbers I said I thought we had 5 wins 4 toss-ups and 3 losses and if we could win 2 of the toss-ups that would be pretty good. That's what we did. Last spring I said my read on the models suggested we had 5 wins, 6 toss-ups, and 1 loss, and I thought we might be able to win 10+ games, which is also what we did. This year my read on the models suggest that we have 8 wins, 3 toss-ups, and 1 loss (barely). I've seen a number of fans expecting 8-4 or 9-3 this year and that may be the way things sort out but if we can remain relatively healthy, we still have a lot of older guys, so I won't be surprised if this year we finally get back to Atlanta. jmo.
Jackcrevol
Ain't Got Time!
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Kentucky has the 4th best talent in SEC, East.
They will overachieve, somehow. And when I say overachieve, I specifically mean they'll be exactly where their recruiting rankings show, 4th in SEC East. They'll sonehow lose to Carolina, who will beat up NIU in the Duke's Mayo Bowl...once again the Cocks will act like they've beaten Nebraska circa 1994.
BTW, had a dream that Tennessee's 2023 schedule was filled with cream puffs and we won the SEC.
Sooo, anywhoo. Back to Kentucky. They'll struggle with a slightly, slightly above average QB. Id say with that schedule they'll end up with 9 wins.
Last edited:
BigOrangeTrain
Morior Invictus
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Not even close. UK is the 11th most talented in the SEC.
2022 College SEC Football Team Talent Composite
Jackcrevol
Ain't Got Time!
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cHiZzLeVOL
Who Knows?
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In fairness if my team went 1-11 and someone was like you know what we need? A complete overhaul….. and my team wins more than 1 game the next season, I don’t think I’d be too upset. I mean, coaching does so much but at some point it’s also the mindset of the players etc. just because they were D1 caliber when they were recruited doesn’t mean they have a D1 mindset anymore and that is one of the hardest things to fix about a kid, their mind.We would be in absolute shambles and this site would crash
Since the University of Colorado Boulder hired head coach Deion Sanders in December 2022, a total of 57 players have entered the transfer portal.
Colorado athletic director Rick George told ESPN's Heather Dinich on May 4 that he remains confident in Sanders' complete overhaul of the roster.
"I have confidence in him and his staff and they know what they're doing," George said. "... He's been very honest and forthright. He's been very open about it publicly and privately. He's trying to build a winner at Colorado, and this is his way to do it."
The Buffaloes went 1-11 last season, their worst record since 2012.
Sanders spent three seasons coaching at Jackson State. He led the Tigers to a 12-1 record, including a clean slate in Southwestern Athletic Conference play, in 2022.
By the time Sanders' move to the Pac-12 was announced on December 3, 14 Colorado players had already entered the transfer portal, according to ESPN's Stats & Information. Sanders made it immediately clear that number was going to rise in his first meeting with the team.
"I'm coming, and when I get here, it's gonna be change," Sanders told the team in December, per BuffZone. "So, I want you all to get ready to go ahead and jump in the [transfer] portal and do whatever you're gonna get, because the more of you jump in, the room you make. We're bringing kids that are smart, tough, fast, disciplined with character. That's the ones we're gonna get. Is that you?"
Entrances to the transfer portal spiked this spring. Since the opening of the portal on April 15, at least 42 players have departed, including wide receiver Montana Lemonious-Craig. Offensive tackle Travis Gray, whose father Lamarr won a national championship with Colorado in 1990, was another transfer.
"When [Sanders] first came in, he said, 'There's a lot of people here who may not be here,' because he evaluated and looked at the talent on our team," George said. "He's just publicly stated it, where a lot of people don't. We're not the first to do this."
George said that some players wanted to leave after spring practices, while others departed due to an NCAA rule that allows first-year head coaches to cut players on scholarships.
A Colorado spokesperson told ESPN that four of those students have chosen to stay with the school. They will retain their scholarships but not play on the team next season.
Meanwhile.Colorado’s AD after giving Deion his support publicly
View attachment 550249
I have no complaints against Sanders method unless it doesn’t work. But, Sanders knows football and I’d be surprised if he doesn’t win 5 or more games this year.
Jackcrevol
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Wow, that's pretty telling. Wonder if that includes transfers too?
I still think Huepel and company have to show they can close with big timers (top 100) blue chippers, consistently.
If you look at the impact having Crompton in 2005 had, and even Ainge ans Schaeffer on those classes, it was a big deal. Seems like we maybe didnt capitalize perhaps like we could have with Nico.
butchna
Sit down and tell me all about it...way over there
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Jackcrevol
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TheRain
🌧️🌧️🌧️🌧️
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Glitch
Sally says I am funny! Maybe she will let me live!
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We would be in absolute shambles and this site would crash
Since the University of Colorado Boulder hired head coach Deion Sanders in December 2022, a total of 57 players have entered the transfer portal.
Colorado athletic director Rick George told ESPN's Heather Dinich on May 4 that he remains confident in Sanders' complete overhaul of the roster.
"I have confidence in him and his staff and they know what they're doing," George said. "... He's been very honest and forthright. He's been very open about it publicly and privately. He's trying to build a winner at Colorado, and this is his way to do it."
The Buffaloes went 1-11 last season, their worst record since 2012.
Sanders spent three seasons coaching at Jackson State. He led the Tigers to a 12-1 record, including a clean slate in Southwestern Athletic Conference play, in 2022.
By the time Sanders' move to the Pac-12 was announced on December 3, 14 Colorado players had already entered the transfer portal, according to ESPN's Stats & Information. Sanders made it immediately clear that number was going to rise in his first meeting with the team.
"I'm coming, and when I get here, it's gonna be change," Sanders told the team in December, per BuffZone. "So, I want you all to get ready to go ahead and jump in the [transfer] portal and do whatever you're gonna get, because the more of you jump in, the room you make. We're bringing kids that are smart, tough, fast, disciplined with character. That's the ones we're gonna get. Is that you?"
Entrances to the transfer portal spiked this spring. Since the opening of the portal on April 15, at least 42 players have departed, including wide receiver Montana Lemonious-Craig. Offensive tackle Travis Gray, whose father Lamarr won a national championship with Colorado in 1990, was another transfer.
"When [Sanders] first came in, he said, 'There's a lot of people here who may not be here,' because he evaluated and looked at the talent on our team," George said. "He's just publicly stated it, where a lot of people don't. We're not the first to do this."
George said that some players wanted to leave after spring practices, while others departed due to an NCAA rule that allows first-year head coaches to cut players on scholarships.
A Colorado spokesperson told ESPN that four of those students have chosen to stay with the school. They will retain their scholarships but not play on the team next season.
Meanwhile.Colorado’s AD after giving Deion his support publicly
View attachment 550249
Prime is a complete a-hole, but if he doesn't think he has the players to win the PAC-12/8 then those players do need to hit the portal. I mean, how hard should it be to win that conference?
Jackcrevol
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SoilVol
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Glitch
Sally says I am funny! Maybe she will let me live!
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Glitch
Sally says I am funny! Maybe she will let me live!
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Jackcrevol
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Jackcrevol
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VolsDoc81TX
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Maybe Squirrel didn’t know that they were racing?
Or Joe finally figured out how to run?
I didn’t learn how to sprint until I was in med school. I wasn’t slow, but had never worked on technique of sprinting before. Instead of leg day, I would go and run 60 yard sprints. I would sprint full out for the 60 yards then walk back, get set and then sprint again. I would do that until I had sprinted a mile. 30 x the full sprint. I started running faster by improving my technique. Being in med school we studied everything. We played full court basketball to blow off steam. I started catching the breakaway guys before they could reach the other end of the court.
Long story to say that if they worked on his sprinting technique, Joe may have found his inner Usain Bolt…
If I were a football coach, I would hire the track coach to teach all my players the proper sprinter techniques.
When I coached baseball, I taught every player how to run faster with correcting their technique. We would video them running and then work on increasing their speed from the start. I timed them on base running: full out to first, home to 2nd, 2nd to home. By improving their technique, we put players in scoring position and scored more.
I actually had a coach tell me that you could not teach speed! That’s a bad and incorrect urban myth…
Orange_Crush
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Orange_Crush
Resident windbag genius
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I can't run anymore since I broke my leg about 8 years ago. It tore stuff, broke it, crutches for 8 months trying to avoid pins (thank God I did), and it kinda buckles when I try. I say all that to say this, if any of you ever do see me running, then you better run, cause something bad is chasing me
volbeast33
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It worked perfectly fine for 100 years of baseball…. Do you really think baseball commissioner, Greg Sankey, the NCAA, Roger Goodell handle issues better than the players themselves….. it doesn’t work in other sports but it definitely worked in baseball…. I would much rather trust guys like Ted Williams, Hank Aaron, Orel Hershiser, and on to handle things between the lines.
volbeast33
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