Recruiting Forum: Football Talk XI

#10,327
#10,327
flowd82 said:
All things being equal, a safety limiting a WR to only 2 catches out of 10 attempts in that man-to-man coverage scenario would be fairly solid. But all things were not equal in that match-up, or at least shouldn't have been.

Todd Kelly Jr. is a Division-1, SEC football recruit. Although he hasn't officially began his UT football career, he has already been touted & is expected to play a major role in UT's Defensive-Backfield this Fall with the possibility to earn a starting Safety spot. All due respect to your step-son, but he is a DII WR. UT doesn't play any DII schools. And for good reason. SEC football teams and their respective athletes are on a completely different talent level than DII football teams. When TKJ begins his UT football career this Fall, he will week-in & week-out be guarding the best Athletes in all of college-football.

My response wasn't intended to insult your step-son or to necessarily state that Todd Kelly Jr.'s performance against your step-son was terrible. The point I was attempting to make was simply that I don't believe that one particular performance in which TKJ limited a DII WR to 2 catches out of 10 attempts equates to UT's football team having a brighter future ahead. That should be the result every single time.
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Nothing is equal about it though. TK Jr. hasn't even had a day of practice and he's beating out a Sophomore DII WR! Lemme repeat that: he's a freaking high schooler soon to be true frosh who hasn't even practiced at UT beating out a sophomore WR - DII or not. And while I do agree that one performance is just one performance I DO think you need to take his age, lack of college experience, and other factors into account.

Also, DII isn't what it used to be - they're no longer going in undrafted and the competition and talent level has risen. Not for everyone but DII isn't what it once was - plenty of players make the NFL when that used to be rare and plenty of DI players who were either overlooked as prospects or who wound up in trouble at a DI school play FCS football and a few who need to be closer to home even play DII football. Many are crazy talented but had admission issues, family issues, went to a small HS, were offered walk-on spots but couldn't afford the first year of DI tuition, had various needs that made them unable to attend a DI program etc. Players at these schools don't have the best of everything but many have talent and motivation and no a DI player shouldn't win out every single time - again things aren't what they were.

SI List of small school prospects:
Combine Watch: Small-school stars who could shine in*Indianapolis | Audibles - SI.com

More in depth article on small school players:
Small-school NFL draft prospects can dream big - ESPN

Last year 19 players were drafted from FCS DI-AA and 11 from DII despite FCS (DI-AA) which gives 85 schollies largely being the landing spot for DI FBS castoffs with grade or other issued and despite the fact that DII are smaller and less funded - they only give 36 schollies. That's pretty darn impressive. Talent is everywhere now and the NFL is highly aware of that fact.

And as has been pointed out - he's a SAFETY not a corner.
 
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#10,328
#10,328
flowd82 said:
I comprehended the post just fine on my initial attempt.

I never stated that 2 catches in 10 targets against man-to-man coverage was bad. I simply stated that I didn't think that necessarily indicated that UT football's program was on the rise. And, while Deion Sanders might have occasionally (very,very rarely) gotten beat, I highly doubt there were very many instances it was by a DII WR.

I would assume, and certainly hope, that all UT football players would hold their own, if not completely dominate a 1-on-1 matchup with a DII football player. That should be the result every single time without exception.

All things being equal, a safety limiting a WR to only 2 catches out of 10 attempts in that man-to-man coverage scenario would be fairly solid. But all things were not equal in that match-up, or at least shouldn't have been.

Todd Kelly Jr. is a Division-1, SEC football recruit. Although he hasn't officially began his UT football career, he has already been touted & is expected to play a major role in UT's Defensive-Backfield this Fall with the possibility to earn a starting Safety spot. All due respect to your step-son, but he is a DII WR. UT doesn't play any DII schools. And for good reason. SEC football teams and their respective athletes are on a completely different talent level than DII football teams. When TKJ begins his UT football career this Fall, he will week-in & week-out be guarding the best Athletes in all of college-football.

My response wasn't intended to insult your step-son or to necessarily state that Todd Kelly Jr.'s performance against your step-son was terrible. The point I was attempting to make was simply that I don't believe that one particular performance in which TKJ limited a DII WR to 2 catches out of 10 attempts equates to UT's football team having a brighter future ahead. That should be the result every single time.

I am confident that you are extremely proud of your step-son's athletic accomplishments & you absolutely should be. The fact that he has been working out with & holding his own against a highly-regarded, Top-100 talent DI college football recruit is something to be proud of. Good luck to your step-son and in his future college football career.
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Don't you play LB at D2 ball flowd? No disrespect meant, but I thought I remembered you saying that at some point.
 
#10,329
#10,329
Atzar said:
I'm sure you've seen video of the WR/DB drills they do at camps. I've seen clips where they give the WR several seconds and three or four moves to try to dislodge the DB (I remember this pretty vividly in a DeAnthony Arnett video, for example).

Those drills favor the WR, and for a safety to shut down even a D-II receiver on an island 80% of the time is pretty impressive given the context.
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Big Orange#1 said:
Aztar's post above you explains it. These 1 on 1 drills are EXTREMELY reciever oriented. The few that I have seen give tons of space and moves to shake the DB, typically that doesn't happen in a game situation.
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UTProf said:
Nothing is equal about it though. TK Jr. hasn't even had a day of practice and he's beating out a Sophomore DII WR! Lemme repeat that: he's a freaking high schooler soon to be true frosh who hasn't even practiced at UT beating out a sophomore WR - DII or not. And while I do agree that one performance is just one performance I DO think you need to take his age, lack of college experience, and other factors into account.

Also, DII isn't what it used to be - they're no longer going in undrafted and the competition and talent level has risen. Not for everyone but DII isn't what it once was - plenty of players make the NFL when that used to be rare and plenty of DI players who were either overlooked as prospects or who wound up in trouble at a DI school play FCS football and a few who need to be closer to home even play DII football. Many are crazy talented but had admission issues, family issues, went to a small HS, were offered walk-on spots but couldn't afford the first year of DI tuition, had various needs that made them unable to attend a DI program etc. Players at these schools don't have the best of everything but many have talent and motivation and no a DI player shouldn't win out every single time - again things aren't what they were.

SI List of small school prospects:
Combine Watch: Small-school stars who could shine in*Indianapolis | Audibles - SI.com

More in depth article on small school players:
Small-school NFL draft prospects can dream big - ESPN

Last year 19 players were drafted from FCS DI-AA and 11 from DII despite FCS (DI-AA) which gives 85 schollies largely being the landing spot for DI FBS castoffs with grade or other issued and despite the fact that DII are smaller and less funded - they only give 36 schollies. That's pretty darn impressive. Talent is everywhere now and the NFL is highly aware of that fact.

And as has been pointed out - he's a SAFETY not a corner.
Click to expand...

I completely understand how these drills work. I've personally competed in & practiced these exact drills over and over again the last 4 years. The WRs absolutely hold an advantage over the DBs in these 1-on-1, man-to-man drills.

The point of my response is being completely misinterpreted.

The point I was trying to get across was that the results of this alleged 1-on-1 match-up does not indicate that "brighter days are ahead" for UT football.

Todd Kelly Jr. did what should be expected of him in that scenario. TKJ lined up against a lesser-ranked football player, and he ultimately won more reps than he lost. Those particular match-up results between a UT incoming-freshmen SS and an anonymous DII WR shouldn't & doesn't mean that UT football is on the rise. All it means is that TKJ performed up to his expectations & took care of his business.

That's really all there is to this. I really don't need explanations by these people on how certain football drills are performed or the difference in talent-level between the divisions of NCAA college football. Y'all can disagree with my personal opinions all you want, but try not to educate someone on the game of college football who has lived it the last 4 years.
 
#10,330
#10,330
Liverpool is 2 wins and a draw away from winning the championship for the first time in 24 years (Vol fans can relate).

Their "relatively" cheaply assembled squad has won 11 in a row, toppling teams with huge payrolls. This morning, they play #2 Chelsea, one of those rich teams who probably has more money spent on their bench players than Liverpool's whole team. A Win eliminates Chelsea, and almost assures Liverpool takes the title this year

Game gon be live, if you wanna see some sports on a Sunday morning

YNWA
 
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#10,331
#10,331
The Breakerboy said:
He's a SAFETY not a CORNER. My goodness dude you're picking at something. It's a padless drill in which he gave up two catches. Slant routes are kinda hard to stop in those settings. If the QB is throwing the ball ahead and you're trailing period it's almost impossible to stop. I can see if he got lit up but he gave up two passes. How many times will the SS have to lock a WR up seriously? Or will he be playing some sort of robber or zone coverage? What now? I guess you've never seen a kid from a D-II school ever catch a pass in a game versus a D-1 school. According to your logic it should never happen. SMDH
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That is not at all what I said or the point I was getting across. And you know that just as well as I do. But by all means, continue to put words in my mouth and take things out of context.

So you play a little adult-league flag football and "train" some high school kids & you feel that gives you the authority to educate others on football? I don't need your lessons.

I was born and raised in Knoxville and have watched TKJ play live several times. I believe I know damn well what position he plays.

The facts of the alleged scenario are these: UT's incoming-freshmen SS Todd Kelly Jr. faced off against & guarded an anonymous DII WR in some sort of 1-on-1 pass catch drill that consisted of 10 reps. During these 10 reps, 2 attempted passes were completed to said anonymous DII WR, while the other 8 attempts were not completed. Specific details on the match-up remain unknown. Later on, the DII WR's step-dad posts vague information concerning the alleged workout & follows the story by saying "brighter days are ahead".

For the last time, my initial post regarding this subject really had nothing to do with grading or evaluating Todd Kelly Jr.'s personal performance/workout against this DII WR. My post absolutely wasn't intended to bash TKJ's performance or to poke-fun at this DII WR or any DII football player for that matter.

It's as simple as this, Todd Kelly Jr. competed in a series of reps in which he was to guard a DII WR 1-on-1, and ultimately he outperformed a player he was supposed to outperform. He was expected to win that matchup & he did. He did his job. Period. TKJ outperforming this DII player doesn't mean that UT's football program is on the rise again. It just means UT football has landed some players that can at least take care of the business they are expected to take care of.
 
#10,334
#10,334
flowd82 said:
That is not at all what I said or the point I was getting across. And you know that just as well as I do. But by all means, continue to put words in my mouth and take things out of context.

So you play a little adult-league flag football and "train" some high school kids & you feel that gives you the authority to educate others on football? I don't need your lessons.

I was born and raised in Knoxville and have watched TKJ play live several times. I believe I know damn well what position he plays.

The facts of the alleged scenario are these: UT's incoming-freshmen SS Todd Kelly Jr. faced off against & guarded an anonymous DII WR in some sort of 1-on-1 pass catch drill that consisted of 10 reps. During these 10 reps, 2 attempted passes were completed to said anonymous DII WR, while the other 8 attempts were not completed. Specific details on the match-up remain unknown. Later on, the DII WR's step-dad posts vague information concerning the alleged workout & follows the story by saying "brighter days are ahead".

For the last time, my initial post regarding this subject really had nothing to do with grading or evaluating Todd Kelly Jr.'s personal performance/workout against this DII WR. My post absolutely wasn't intended to bash TKJ's performance or to poke-fun at this DII WR or any DII football player for that matter.

It's as simple as this, Todd Kelly Jr. competed in a series of reps in which he was to guard a DII WR 1-on-1, and ultimately he outperformed a player he was supposed to outperform. He was expected to win that matchup & he did. He did his job. Period. TKJ outperforming this DII player doesn't mean that UT's football program is on the rise again. It just means UT football has landed some players that can at least take care of the business they are expected to take care of.
Click to expand...

I never played football & don't pretend to have your superior knowledge of the game. However, I do enjoy reading stories like the one whitw posted.

Diatribes like yours tend to discourage stories like that & we wind up discussing dog farts or soccer. Get it now?
 
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#10,335
#10,335
Good, Lawd on Sunday. What a finish to the thread during the evening. Going to church to clean some of that out of my mind. Something needs to happen of consequence with UT sports soon...
 
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#10,336
#10,336
flowd82 said:
It just means UT football has landed some players that can at least take care of the business they are expected to take care of.
Click to expand...

After watching the last several years of mostly-average talent, this simple observation really could mean "there are brighter days ahead." Haha.

So it sounds like you all agree.
 
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#10,337
#10,337
...all of this over "brighter days ahead"??


Good Lord, can you imagine the windfall if someone posted about the weather?!?
 
#10,338
#10,338
nicksjuzunk said:
Liverpool is 2 wins and a draw away from winning the championship for the first time in 24 years (Vol fans can relate).

Their "relatively" cheaply assembled squad has won 11 in a row, toppling teams with huge payrolls. This morning, they play #2 Chelsea, one of those rich teams who probably has more money spent on their bench players than Liverpool's whole team. A Win eliminates Chelsea, and almost assures Liverpool takes the title this year

Game gon be live, if you wanna see some sports on a Sunday morning

YNWA
Click to expand...

Gerrard is a god
 
#10,339
#10,339
orangeblood79 said:
...all of this over "brighter days ahead"??


Good Lord, can you imagine the windfall if someone posted about the weather?!?
Click to expand...


anigif_enhanced-buzz-2634-1351514835-6.gif
 
#10,340
#10,340
flowd82 said:
I comprehended the post just fine on my initial attempt.

I never stated that 2 catches in 10 targets against man-to-man coverage was bad. I simply stated that I didn't think that necessarily indicated that UT football's program was on the rise. And, while Deion Sanders might have occasionally (very,very rarely) gotten beat, I highly doubt there were very many instances it was by a DII WR.

I would assume, and certainly hope, that all UT football players would hold their own, if not completely dominate a 1-on-1 matchup with a DII football player. That should be the result every single time without exception.

All things being equal, a safety limiting a WR to only 2 catches out of 10 attempts in that man-to-man coverage scenario would be fairly solid. But all things were not equal in that match-up, or at least shouldn't have been.

Todd Kelly Jr. is a Division-1, SEC football recruit. Although he hasn't officially began his UT football career, he has already been touted & is expected to play a major role in UT's Defensive-Backfield this Fall with the possibility to earn a starting Safety spot. All due respect to your step-son, but he is a DII WR. UT doesn't play any DII schools. And for good reason. SEC football teams and their respective athletes are on a completely different talent level than DII football teams. When TKJ begins his UT football career this Fall, he will week-in & week-out be guarding the best Athletes in all of college-football.

My response wasn't intended to insult your step-son or to necessarily state that Todd Kelly Jr.'s performance against your step-son was terrible. The point I was attempting to make was simply that I don't believe that one particular performance in which TKJ limited a DII WR to 2 catches out of 10 attempts equates to UT's football team having a brighter future ahead. That should be the result every single time.

I am confident that you are extremely proud of your step-son's athletic accomplishments & you absolutely should be. The fact that he has been working out with & holding his own against a highly-regarded, Top-100 talent DI college football recruit is something to be proud of. Good luck to your step-son and in his future college football career.
Click to expand...

.... Yeah, you still don't get it. Whatever floats your boat dude.
 
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#10,341
#10,341
Billy Antrim said:
I never played football & don't pretend to have your superior knowledge of the game. However, I do enjoy reading stories like the one whitw posted.

Diatribes like yours tend to discourage stories like that & we wind up discussing dog farts or soccer. Get it now?
Click to expand...

I love all and flow 82 but this dog fart thing is funny.
 
#10,344
#10,344
flowd82 said:
That is not at all what I said or the point I was getting across. And you know that just as well as I do. But by all means, continue to put words in my mouth and take things out of context.

So you play a little adult-league flag football and "train" some high school kids & you feel that gives you the authority to educate others on football? I don't need your lessons.

I was born and raised in Knoxville and have watched TKJ play live several times. I believe I know damn well what position he plays.

The facts of the alleged scenario are these: UT's incoming-freshmen SS Todd Kelly Jr. faced off against & guarded an anonymous DII WR in some sort of 1-on-1 pass catch drill that consisted of 10 reps. During these 10 reps, 2 attempted passes were completed to said anonymous DII WR, while the other 8 attempts were not completed. Specific details on the match-up remain unknown. Later on, the DII WR's step-dad posts vague information concerning the alleged workout & follows the story by saying "brighter days are ahead".

For the last time, my initial post regarding this subject really had nothing to do with grading or evaluating Todd Kelly Jr.'s personal performance/workout against this DII WR. My post absolutely wasn't intended to bash TKJ's performance or to poke-fun at this DII WR or any DII football player for that matter.

It's as simple as this, Todd Kelly Jr. competed in a series of reps in which he was to guard a DII WR 1-on-1, and ultimately he outperformed a player he was supposed to outperform. He was expected to win that matchup & he did. He did his job. Period. TKJ outperforming this DII player doesn't mean that UT's football program is on the rise again. It just means UT football has landed some players that can at least take care of the business they are expected to take care of.
Click to expand...

I work with kids that play D1 and have former teammates that have played for Saban and Bobby Bowden. Pretty sure it's not hard for me to work with athletes. Hell my next door neighbor growing up went pro after playing LB at Louisville. You're just running your mouth. Pretty sure I'm in better shape than you right now. But your post is BS in itself. The guy shared news and was excited. You come with the don't get excited talk as if the kid isn't good and his strength isn't even man coverage. I like personally reading that the kid is working hard on his weaknesses. But no you want to come off as if the kid shouldn't have allowed a catch. Which is how I read your post and I didn't put any words in your mouth. The tone of your post was exactly what I responded too.
 
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#10,345
#10,345
My oldest daughter made me a loop band bracelet. She might be a VFL.?.
 

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#10,347
#10,347
The Breakerboy said:
I work with kids that play D1 and have former teammates that have played for Saban and Bobby Bowden. Pretty sure it's not hard for me to work with athletes. Hell my next door neighbor growing up went pro after playing LB at Louisville. You're just running your mouth. Pretty sure I'm in better shape than you right now. But your post is BS in itself. The guy shared news and was excited. You come with the don't get excited talk as if the kid isn't good and his strength isn't even man coverage. I like personally reading that the kid is working hard on his weaknesses. But no you want to come off as if the kid shouldn't have allowed a catch. Which is how I read your post and I didn't put any words in your mouth. The tone of your post was exactly what I responded too.
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Well said. Dude coming off cocky as a mofo and all holier-than-thou concerning football. We have some very knowledgeable posters here when it comes to football and flowd82 is one of them, but his posts here are a little ridiculous. I normally like his posts, but damn...he isn't the be-all, end-all he tries to come off as.
 
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