Recruiting Forum: Football Talk XI

#10,779
#10,779
ChattaTNVol said:
Read more here: Report: Attorneys say Franklin contacted alleged victim in Vanderbilt sexual assault case | Penn State | CentreDaily.com
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"Joyner said in early January. “And I’ve told them, ‘Trust me. We have done a very thorough vetting of this and we feel comfortable with the situation.’ We’re very, very careful and very methodical about doing that."

Apparently, it was not thorough enough. I don't feel bad for him, he is/was the acting AD. I do feel bad for their fans. Anybody know any PSU message boards one can look at without registering?
 
#10,780
#10,780
VolGee4 said:
You have to remember that the allegation is made in a motion filed by defense attorneys. It isn't necessarily true until a hearing is set and proof is presented under oath. Franklin shouldn't have contacted the victim, but I don't believe it to be illegal unless he somehow coerced or influenced her to say something different.

As a defense attorney, many lay people fail to realize that missing discovery or withholding evidence happens. Now, I am not going to say it happens alot because good prosecutors don't do it. But, it happens. However, it is one thing to accuse the State from destroying evidence, and it is another that they intentionally did it. You have to realize that in my line of work, we receive cases with facts that are against us- just the nature of the job. It wouldn't be a criminal case without "bad facts." Defense attorneys use motions and other tools to create leverage in a case to try to create doubt in the State's case or to try to settle. JMO.
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I would doubt they would make those allegations without solid evidence though. That would probably set them up for defamation if they didn't. I'm no attorney, but I doubt there are many that would slander and defame people like that without something to back it up...
 
#10,781
#10,781
jman9865 said:
I would doubt they would make those allegations without solid evidence though. That would probably set them up for defamation if they didn't. I'm no attorney, but I doubt there are many that would slander and defame people like that without something to back it up...
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Not necessarily. You can't really defame someone while defending a crime. You have the right to defend yourself, and there is kind of a defamation exception when defending yourself. They may have something, or they may have a little. But, bottom line is that the job of a defense attorney is to create doubt and leverage and get a favorable result for your client.
 
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#10,782
#10,782
UTProf said:
Regarding the QB debate the O&W game was eye-opening, imo. Worley, Dobbs, and yes, Peterman all showed huge improvements. Ferguson disappointed - no way around that.

I realize Fergy has been reported as 'having the arm' but then Dobbs one the skills competition and looked fine. Worley was pretty bad at the skills competition but Worley much like Dobbs last year has shown that at times he does have a fine arm. Judging from Worley's time as a backup, I think last year was just a step backwards for him but he'd previously shown a pretty good arm.

I think Fergy has a lot more growing/learning to do before he'll make. Could happen before/during summer/fall but it may not.

Going only by right now:
Worley/Dobbs are too close to call (I could make arguments for starting either).
Peterman-Fergy (Peterman seems slightly ahead mainly because of maturity/experience and has thrown some fantastic passes all spring despite getting no real press for it).

That said I'm not sure Peterman will ever get a fair shake despite his improvement and he's the only one I think who is in that position. Even if he suddenly beat out everyone it would be a huge risk for coaches to start him given the fan base has written him off. If he got the start and slipped up the beating they'd take in the press and from fans would be unreal.

Lotta way to go before summer/fall but that is where I see them right now. Gonna be a tight race between the Worley-Dobbs-Fergy when practice starts again.
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You have to remember that Dobbs only ran against the 2nd team defense in the spring game. All but 1 of those scores he was running 1st team offense vs 2nd team defense. When Ferguson was put in that situation (1s vs 2s) he scored 100% of the time. (1 time). A lot of the problems he had (sacks and INT), he was running the second team offense. It also seemed like the coaches threw more pressure at him, including a safety blitz that resulted in a sack (IIRC it was the fumble). None of the QBs could score while running the 2nd team O, except the botched snap that Dobbs ran for a TD. Worley led the 1st team O to score on the 1st team D more than 1 time. (3 IIRC). Peterman led the 1st team O to score against the 1st team D also.

But this was all just 1 practice. Throughout the entire spring.....

Worley was the most consistent and made the smarter but more conservative plays.

Peterman was reported for holding the ball too long. Took a lot of sacks. Not much more was reported.

Ferguson had the stronger arm and showed the most playmaker ability. Although he made some dumb decisions, threw too many INTs and was inconsistent. He also showed the most leadership (something a lot of posters havent been taking into consideration)

Dobbs was reported that he had fumbling issues at the beginning of spring. It was almost daily that he was fumbling snaps. He too was reported to be inconsistent. Some of the TSR guys seemed like he was disinterested, probably because of his hectic schedule. But he was making good plays with his feet. We also heard that he was thinking too much and took a lot of sacks


The coaches will pick the depth chart based on the entire body of work. Not just 1 spring game. The coaches have been preaching that guys will earn their spots based on what they do in practice. If they guys who practice the best dont get the starting spot, what kind of message does that send? Some guys wont try as hard in practice because they think that no matter how they perform, the guy who didnt practice as well will still take their spot.
 
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#10,784
#10,784
Dislike Stoops more and more. Really hope the Vols embarrass him in Norman this coming year. Probably not gonna happen but one can dream, right?:)
 
#10,785
#10,785
VolGee4 said:
You have to remember that the allegation is made in a motion filed by defense attorneys. It isn't necessarily true until a hearing is set and proof is presented under oath. Franklin shouldn't have contacted the victim, but I don't believe it to be illegal unless he somehow coerced or influenced her to say something different.

As a defense attorney, many lay people fail to realize that missing discovery or withholding evidence happens. Now, I am not going to say it happens alot because good prosecutors don't do it. But, it happens. However, it is one thing to accuse the State from destroying evidence, and it is another that they intentionally did it. You have to realize that in my line of work, we receive cases with facts that are against us- just the nature of the job. It wouldn't be a criminal case without "bad facts." Defense attorneys use motions and other tools to create leverage in a case to try to create doubt in the State's case or to try to settle. JMO.
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So what you are saying is, "James Franklin is guilty." Amirite :)
 
#10,786
#10,786
POA - media's been saying Fergy had the stronger arm since they were recruits. I've yet to see any evidence. Could be he has a 'QB drill' arm but he should've shone in the skills competition but didn't. Dobbs did which was rather surprising, imo.

2nd team sacks and INTs are catastrophic errors for Fergy. If we include the supposed 1s/2s debate Worley, Peterman, and Dobbs come out looking good - that argument does nothing to help Fergy. That said, I'm not convinced we had anything resembling a true 1s/2s situation - players were mixed in all over the place.
 
#10,787
#10,787
UTProf said:
POA - media's been saying Fergy had the stronger arm since they were recruits. I've yet to see any evidence. Could be he has a 'QB drill' arm but he should've shone in the skills competition but didn't. Dobbs did.

2nd team sacks and INTs are catastrophic errors for Fergy. If we include the supposed 1s/2s debate Worley, Peterman, and Dobbs come out looking good - that argument does nothing to help Fergy. That said, I'm not convinced we had anything resembling a true 1s/2s situation - players were mixed in all over the place.
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Exactly. It was only 1 practice. Not enough evidence for us to make a decision. The coaches are the ones that get to see it all. They are the ones that decided to give Worley and Ferguson the 1st team reps in the last week or 2 of practice. There was that 1 scrimmage where Ferguson got 9 first team reps (drives)
Worley got 7
Peterman got 4 or 5
Dobbs got 3
If Dobbs was doing better than the others, why would they limit him so much?
Seeing 1 practice isnt enough to make an assumption to write a kid off, or name him the next starter.
 
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#10,790
#10,790
VolGee4 said:
You have to remember that the allegation is made in a motion filed by defense attorneys. It isn't necessarily true until a hearing is set and proof is presented under oath. Franklin shouldn't have contacted the victim, but I don't believe it to be illegal unless he somehow coerced or influenced her to say something different.

As a defense attorney, many lay people fail to realize that missing discovery or withholding evidence happens. Now, I am not going to say it happens alot because good prosecutors don't do it. But, it happens. However, it is one thing to accuse the State from destroying evidence, and it is another that they intentionally did it. You have to realize that in my line of work, we receive cases with facts that are against us- just the nature of the job. It wouldn't be a criminal case without "bad facts." Defense attorneys use motions and other tools to create leverage in a case to try to create doubt in the State's case or to try to settle. JMO.
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I believe I read that the DA in Davidson County was a Vandy grad and possibly some more on that staff. I'm not saying that they would do anything to cover up a crime at their old school. Do you think they would?
 
#10,791
#10,791
OldVol49vfl said:
I believe I read that the DA in Davidson County was a Vandy grad and possibly some more on that staff. I'm not saying that they would do anything to cover up a crime at their old school. Do you think they would?
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To me, it would seem like a Vandy grad would want them to be not guilty and want to help the defense, not the other way around. But over zealous prosecutors can be a problem. Prosecutors are under a special ethical rule to seek the truth, and if they think someone may be innocent, they have to let it go.
 
#10,792
#10,792
PassedOutAwake said:
Seriously what?

You think everyone should write a kid off because he had 1 bad practice?
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I said seriously because heaven help anyone who is not 1000% convinced yet on Fergy. You take it personally when anyone mentions Worley and especially Dobbs having the better games. Yet my first post on the topic said there was a long way to go before summer and mentioned Worley-Dobbs-Fergy being a battle.
 
#10,793
#10,793
UTProf said:
POA - media's been saying Fergy had the stronger arm since they were recruits. I've yet to see any evidence. Could be he has a 'QB drill' arm but he should've shone in the skills competition but didn't. Dobbs did which was rather surprising, imo.

2nd team sacks and INTs are catastrophic errors for Fergy. If we include the supposed 1s/2s debate Worley, Peterman, and Dobbs come out looking good - that argument does nothing to help Fergy. That said, I'm not convinced we had anything resembling a true 1s/2s situation - players were mixed in all over the place.
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Wth? Players struggling against 1st team d and succeeding against 2nd team is irrelevant? I saw stunts and blitzes against ferg and vanilla against Dobbs. Arm strength. Look at the trajectory of the football when ferg throws an out to the opposite hash as opposed to Dobbs. Rewatch that and tell me you see no diff in arm strength
 
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#10,794
#10,794
UTProf said:
I said seriously because heaven help anyone who is not 1000% convinced yet on Fergy. You take it personally when anyone mentions Worley and especially Dobbs having the better games. Yet my first post on the topic said there was a long way to go before summer and mentioned Worley-Dobbs-Fergy being a battle.
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No, youre taking it that way because you want Dobbs to be the guy. All I have been saying is that you cant write a kid off based on 1 practice. AND you cant name a kid the starter based on 1 practice. You seem to think thats me praising Fergy. Notice in my post how I said how well Worley did? Im not a person who sees 1 practice and jumps to huge assumptions.
 
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#10,795
#10,795
PassedOutAwake said:
No, youre taking it that way because you want Dobbs to be the guy. All I have been saying is that you cant write a kid off based on 1 practice. AND you cant name a kid the starter based on 1 practice. You seem to think thats me praising Fergy. Notice in my post how I said how well Worley did? Im not a person who sees 1 practice and jumps to huge assumptions.
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I'm not the one playing apologetics. I stated my opinion which was quite neutral and you jumped all over it.
 
#10,796
#10,796
StoVol said:
Wth? Players struggling against 1st team d and succeeding against 2nd team is irrelevant? I saw stunts and blitzes against ferg and vanilla against Dobbs. Arm strength. Look at the trajectory of the football when ferg throws an out to the opposite hash as opposed to Dobbs. Rewatch that and tell me you see no diff in arm strength
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I find it funny how people always jump in recruits threads and talk about level of competition, but when its within our program it doesnt matter
 
#10,797
#10,797
UTProf said:
I'm not the one playing apologetics. I stated my opinion which was quite neutral and you jumped all over it.
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Not really, were just discussing football man, it's not the end of the world when someone disagrees with you, nobody is Jumping on you. It will be alright
 
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#10,798
#10,798
StoVol said:
Wth? Players struggling against 1st team d and succeeding against 2nd team is irrelevant? I saw stunts and blitzes against ferg and vanilla against Dobbs. Arm strength. Look at the trajectory of the football when ferg throws an out to the opposite hash as opposed to Dobbs. Rewatch that and tell me you see no diff in arm strength
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Having all of your errors come against 2nd team D (Ferguson) is pretty awful. Sorry you disagree.
 
#10,800
#10,800
UTProf said:
Having all of your errors come against 2nd team D (Ferguson) is pretty awful. Sorry you disagree.
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While running the 2nd team offense. The offense that nobody did well with. The same offense that botched a snap for Dobbs. The same offense that Worley and Peterman couldnt score with. The same offense that Dobbs couldnt throw a TD with.
 
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