Recruiting strategy

[therickbol]

So, here's the "genius" insight of the "insiders" here:

1. We didn't really "want" any of the 95 4/5* players missed out on; we really only "wanted" the 3* guys we typically didn't have recruiting competition for;
2. We have Juda Paker higher on our board than Clowney, because, dude, he's just that much better and no one knows it;
3. All the 4/5* recruits who said no thanks are actually talent-less players who everyone in the country has missed out on (even all the ones we offered) because the "experts" on here "know" better.

What a complete joke.

Wow, its like watching a train wreck happen right in front of you and you watch in disbelief but cant stop it. There are numerous examples of our staff CHOOSING *3 star players over *4 star players that wanted to come to UT. You cant seriously count every offer as a prospect that was 'missed' on but your argument is so weak you have to try to stretch it to that. Dude, you just threw out a Juda Parker argument! Ha. You mean they guy we recruited over and thus asked him to look at other schools.

 

[DaddyChad]

I usually put idiots on ignore. But the complete utter stupidity in some of VegasVol's posts makes me laugh. There is no way this guy is for real.

 

[rocket31]

The only reason people are not criticizing Kelly in recruiting is because he's a proven coach. CDD still has to prove his worth which i hope he does.

lol what?

despite his past success as a proven coach, he was never a proven recruiter (there is a difference)

thus, notre dame fans were very concerned with BKs ability to recruit at a national program when we made the hire...

needless to say, he has exceeded expectations as a recruiter because of the success he has had on the trail.

 

[therickbol]

lol what?

despite his past success as a proven coach, he was never a proven recruiter (there is a difference)

thus, notre dame fans were very concerned with BKs ability to recruit at a national program when we made the hire...

needless to say, he has exceeded expectations as a recruiter because of the success he has had on the trail.

And that is what is so strange about ND this season. Kelly is a proven coach that has won without 4 & 5 star players. ND's roster was not left empty. Weiss recruited extremely well and there is tons of talent on the roster. Yet ND is not performing well. Think it lends at least a little credence that coaches cant be judged until they have 'their' players in place.

 

[OaklandTnVol]

You cannot be that dumb to claim that a success rate of landing 2 4/5* players out of 90+ offered is a great recruiting outcome. No, you don't get everybody; but landing only 2 of your top 90 targets is getting whipped by your SEC competition.

Here's a little comparison for you, since you're obviously not knowledgable enough to know otherwise:

# of Top 250 Players
Dooley
Offered: 95
Committed: 2
Considering: 6

Saban
Offered: 91
Committed: 9
Considering: 15

(Math Aid to Volnation Recruiting "Experts" -- 9 out of 91 is better than 2 out of 95)

You really must enjoy reading your own posts. Parker will be asked to decommit so your arguement there is pointless and you are a bigger moron than I thought if you think we finish with only 2 four star recruits. No one has argued that Dooley has rivaled Sabans class to this point, just that when signing day comes around we will be a top 15 class aand not at the bottom of the SEC. You really are dense.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[KnoxVillain]

*ignore thread*

 

[Fijivol72]

that might and I say might work with a great coaching staff. Unfortunately we play in the SEC where even the lovers of DD have to admit our staff is bottom half of the league and have shown no ability to get the most out of our kids.

 

[Ravenheart]

You're wrong. And that's the problem.

Commitment Rate of Top 250 Amongst Those Offered
Saban 2010: 16%
Saban 2009: 20%
Saban 2008: 24%
Meyer 2010: 24%
Meyer 2009: 17%
Meyer 2008: 18%

Dooley is currently around 2% and will likely finish around 4%; that's the problem.

:stop:

 

[KiffinKiller]

vegasvol can't be real.

LOL. Was skimming through this thread and I though you wrote "vegasvol can't read."

 

[VolsDeep]

lol what?

despite his past success as a proven coach, he was never a proven recruiter (there is a difference)

thus, notre dame fans were very concerned with BKs ability to recruit at a national program when we made the hire...

needless to say, he has exceeded expectations as a recruiter because of the success he has had on the trail.

No, he has exceeded expectations as a recruiter b/c he is at ND, which has more feeder schools across the nation than Tiger Woods does girlfriends. Skim the Catholic high schools in your area and tell me how many of them wear ND colors? It doesn't take a great recruiter to get great players to ND. That's a fact.

 

[KiffinKiller]

[/B]

No, he has exceeded expectations as a recruiter b/c he is at ND, which has more feeder schools across the nation than Tiger Woods does girlfriends. Skim the Catholic high schools in your area and tell me how many of them wear ND colors? It doesn't take a great recruiter to get great players to ND. That's a fact.

I like the reference. But Tiger Woods has wayyyy too many girlfriends for this to be true.

 

[tvols75]

Because Dooley cares so much about the numbers. Countess, Walls, and Thurman were all on your stupid list. Guess what, Dooley didn't want them. So take 3 3 stars off and put 3 4 stars on because they all would've been Vols right now.

Your numbers are also skewed in that Randolph at the very least is going to get his 4th star. Smith, Kerbyson, and Posey also could get their 4th star and Coleman could too if Rivals sticks by its averages over the past few years.

Dooley offered Countess and Walls but guess what he didn't want them and decided that Tino Thomas was better than both of them.

But keep on with your little stupid star gazing. Like I said, you cannot be this dumb.

 

[tvols75]

You're wrong. And that's the problem.

Commitment Rate of Top 250 Amongst Those Offered
Saban 2010: 16%
Saban 2009: 20%
Saban 2008: 24%
Meyer 2010: 24%
Meyer 2009: 17%
Meyer 2008: 18%

Dooley is currently around 2% and will likely finish around 4%; that's the problem.

I love how you bring up the top 2 coaches in the country at the time this was calculated. Let's see in that span Saban had just won a national championship and Meyer had won two.

Very logical in using Saban and Meyer as the standard for TN at this point in time.

 

[KiffinKiller]

I love how you bring up the top 2 coaches in the country at the time this was calculated. Let's see in that span Saban had just won a national championship and Meyer had won two.

Very logical in using Saban and Meyer as the standard for TN at this point in time.

If Fulmer wuz 'ere weed be winnin'! rawr!

 

[Joe Vols]

I know this a ND article but I would like to know if you guys think are we going to the same strategy at Tennessee????


Brian Kelly's woes and plans for the future

from CBS Sportsline.com:

"They do have some higher profile kids," Crabtree said of the '11 class, "but there are a lot of Brian Kelly-type of kids in there, three-star guys that have the potential to be great. Guys that will not make mental errors, who are coachable. That's something that's kind of overlooked."

Wait, three stars? That 2007 class had 13 (out of 18 signees) four- or five-star guys. The 2011 class has 10 (out of 19 commitments) rated with three stars or less.

"Three-star guys also means we project NFL potential and for them to be a multi-year starter," Crabtree explained. "There's a lot of three-star guys that end up doing quite well ... If they are half an inch short, get them in the right system, get them with the right coach, they end up being great football players."

This is a good post, and I see where you're going with this thinking. A great coach can win with 3* talent as a base. I'm not sure recruiting 3* players is a strategy though. I think it may be the results you get from your recruiting efforts, so you coach the talent you have, the best way you can. I think given the choice, any coach in America would rather work with 85 - 5* scholarship athletes. If recruiting 3* talent is a strategy, I think it's a forced one. IMO

 

[Tenacious D]

I love how you bring up the top 2 coaches in the country at the time this was calculated. Let's see in that span Saban had just won a national championship and Meyer had won two.

Very logical in using Saban and Meyer as the standard for TN at this point in time.

Isn't that who we're competing against, and trying to run down?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[tvols75]

Isn't that who we're competing against, and trying to run down?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

So we are going to use a program that has been through 3 coaching changes in 3 years and compare that to the top 2 coaches in the country in that time period. That makes perfect sense! BTW, can you tell me how that talent at Florida is doing this year since all that matters is their star averages over that span?

 

[therickbol]

Some of you lack perspective on reality when it comes to this star debate. Some of you honestly believe this is how it works: The coaching staff at colleges review game tape, combine results, talk with the recruit and form the opinion that they think this particular recruit fits and would be successful in college. Then they check rivals and find out he is a 3-star and change their opinion and decide they dont want them! Or vice versa, the coaches review game tape, combine results, talk with the recruit and determine that he does not fit and would not be successful in college. They then check rivals and find out he is a 4-star and change their mind and decide now we have to offer him! Its idiotic to be that narrow-minded about how the recruiting process works. The players we end up signing for this class with be players that were evaluated extensively by our coaching staff. If they like the kid and he is a 3-star they will offer. If they dont like the kid and he is a 4-star they wont offer. Our class last year was #9. This year is will be probably around #15-#17. Thats is a pretty good baseline foundation considering where our program is at.

 

[WinginFlorida]

Some of you lack perspective on reality when it comes to this star debate. Some of you honestly believe this is how it works: The coaching staff at colleges review game tape, combine results, talk with the recruit and form the opinion that they think this particular recruit fits and would be successful in college. Then they check rivals and find out he is a 3-star and change their opinion and decide they dont want them! Or vice versa, the coaches review game tape, combine results, talk with the recruit and determine that he does not fit and would not be successful in college. They then check rivals and find out he is a 4-star and change their mind and decide now we have to offer him! Its idiotic to be that narrow-minded about how the recruiting process works. The players we end up signing for this class with be players that were evaluated extensively by our coaching staff. If they like the kid and he is a 3-star they will offer. If they dont like the kid and he is a 4-star they wont offer. Our class last year was #9. This year is will be probably around #15-#17. Thats is a pretty good baseline foundation considering where our program is at.

Enjoyed your post. But let me offer one more thought or consideration...while it might be nice to be ranked high, let's take that with a grain of salt. I don't see why so many people get so hung up on Rivals or Scout. We all know how far all that highly ranked talent at Florida and Texas has gone this year...and both are not done losing this year, either. At the same time, perhaps the best team in the land this year is Oregon...not exactly the Rivals poster children of recruiting rankings.

 

[utgibbs]

I love how you bring up the top 2 coaches in the country at the time this was calculated. Let's see in that span Saban had just won a national championship and Meyer had won two.

Very logical in using Saban and Meyer as the standard for TN at this point in time.

I've seen a plethora of posts about VegasVol's data, and I've seen two posts that at least tried to be cogent. The rest were as predicted in my post.

But this is lights out one of the most shocking things I've read (well, since pg 1 on the Football Forum says being a step behind where Fulmer had the program would be acceptable in 2013).

If the goal was to "win the SEC" and not just "compete in the SECCG" then WHAT OTHER STANDARD IS THERE?

 

[VegasVol]

I usually put idiots on ignore. But the complete utter stupidity in some of VegasVol's posts makes me laugh. There is no way this guy is for real.

Kudos to the kiddies. When they can't even post an argument anymore, they just start calling people names.

 

[VegasVol]

This is a good post, and I see where you're going with this thinking. A great coach can win with 3* talent as a base. I'm not sure recruiting 3* players is a strategy though. I think it may be the results you get from your recruiting efforts, so you coach the talent you have, the best way you can. I think given the choice, any coach in America would rather work with 85 - 5* scholarship athletes. If recruiting 3* talent is a strategy, I think it's a forced one. IMO

Exactly -- it's a forced one. These nitwits on here actually think Dooley's dumb enough to prefer his 3* commits to the 90+ 4/5* athletes who turned him down.

 

[DaddyChad]

Kudos to the kiddies. When they can't even post an argument anymore, they just start calling people names.

Where in the world would one even begin to make an argument with some of the blatant insanity that you post? Arguing with someone practicing such backasswards logic as yourself would just be an exercise in futility. Keep posting though, you're doing an excellent job of making my point for me.

 

[VegasVol]

Some of you lack perspective on reality when it comes to this star debate. Some of you honestly believe this is how it works: The coaching staff at colleges review game tape, combine results, talk with the recruit and form the opinion that they think this particular recruit fits and would be successful in college. Then they check rivals and find out he is a 3-star and change their opinion and decide they dont want them! Or vice versa, the coaches review game tape, combine results, talk with the recruit and determine that he does not fit and would not be successful in college. They then check rivals and find out he is a 4-star and change their mind and decide now we have to offer him! Its idiotic to be that narrow-minded about how the recruiting process works. The players we end up signing for this class with be players that were evaluated extensively by our coaching staff. If they like the kid and he is a 3-star they will offer. If they dont like the kid and he is a 4-star they wont offer. Our class last year was #9. This year is will be probably around #15-#17. Thats is a pretty good baseline foundation considering where our program is at.

Sure. But which is more logical, when you know which players the staff has, in fact, offered after evaluation:

Situation: Player A has better athleticism, is considered the better player by recruiting analysts across the country, and is considered the better player by other elite coaches (as evident in their offer sheets) than Player B. We offer both. We only get Player B.

VN "Experts" Conclusion: According to the "experts" on here, that's because we only "really wanted" Player B, didn't "really want" Player A, for vague assertions of "need filling" and "character," even though public record documents we offered both.

My Conclusion: We're losing out on most of our top targets, leaving a Tennessee program on pace with less talent than it has right now.

 

[KiffinKiller]

Where in the world would one even begin to make an argument with some of the blatant insanity that you post? Arguing with someone practicing such backasswards logic as yourself would just be an exercise in futility. Keep posting though, you're doing an excellent job of making my point for me.

I think it's called mental gymnastics. It's when you can bend over backwards mentally to convince yourself you're correct.