Recruiting Surprises?

[sjt18]

Could'nt care less if any of them do. Recruiting 'rankings' are useless because they aren't definitive. We'll be in the mix, but who cares what exact spot we are? UT took care of needs and had as good a class as any of the top 10. They recruited every position on the field. They aren't top heavy anywhere giving us a false rating because we cornered the market in one position like we have in years past. I really hope people can see this. Its what a recruiting class should look like.

Disagree... sorta. I believe there is a rolling plus or minus when it comes to these rankings. The #1 class might be #9 in actuality when it comes to true talent... but it won't be #20. The #10 class could actually be the best class or as bad as #20.

The closer you are to the top in terms of quality (IMO star avg is a good measure) and ranking, the better the chance your class is actually the best signed.

UT looks to finish in the 4-7 range. If I am right then it could be as good as #1 or as "bad" as #17... which is still more than sufficient talent to win big.

UT is also top 10 in star average. Only 3 teams in the SEC are more than .10 stars higher (Bama, LSU, and TAM). Only Bama is completely out of range at 3.88... and IMHO there is a definite Saban bias to recruiting rankings. He's earned it by being right alot but if he recruits a kid then the recruiting sites take notice.

UT is not far at all behind TAM and LSU who have definitely had more recent success.


Bottom line. This is a very, very good class. It is the highest ranked class by Rivals in the SECE by both ranking and star avg. The star avg in the East between the top 3 (UGA 3.63, UT 3.65, UF 3.58) and the rest is significant. USCe is 4th at 3.39 with UK at 3.29 followed by MU at 2.79 and VU at 2.77.

That is a pretty big gap between the haves and have nots in this class that SHOULD translate to a return of the big 3 to being the big 3.

 

[f77f00]

I think the whole class and ranking is a surprise. Butch and Co. did an amazing job selling TN while we are obviously not where we belong right now.

 

[Vol in]

The biggest surprise of the day is that there were no surprises.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Gaining Michael Sawyers was the biggest positive surprise.

Losing Corey Thomas to Miss St. and Orlando Brown to grades were the 2 dissapointments.


Other than that, there really haven't been any other surprises.

 

[sjt18]

Gaining Michael Sawyers was the biggest positive surprise.

Losing Corey Thomas to Miss St. and Orlando Brown to grades were the 2 dissapointments.


Other than that, there really haven't been any other surprises.

It does appear that both were anticipated though.

In all honesty, this was the best effort I have seen since joining this board in '05. It is a very talented class of kids without many character question marks. Not only are they highly ranked, many were pursued by the better recruiting programs as well.

But managing the class well made it very low drama.

As many of you know, I have been a determined critic when I thought it was appropriate. However, there is no way to describe what Jones and staff did in recruiting this year except "elite". Saban's 2nd class at Bama was only marginally better according to Rivals and he already had a NC ring.

 

[Bluetic]

I think the whole class and ranking is a surprise. Butch and Co. did an amazing job selling TN while we are obviously not where we belong right now.

:good!: Imagine how he will recruit when we start to win again!

 

[FLVOL_79]

I think the whole class and ranking is a surprise. Butch and Co. did an amazing job selling TN while we are obviously not where we belong right now.

It shouldn't be a surprise..this is where UT is supposed to be on NSD. Sadly we had to endure an inept coach for a couple of years and fall off the charts. I'm happy with the class, especially after going 5-7. Like a previous poster said, just wait until we are winning again.

 

[17Vols]

better days ahead!!! i'm stoked!!

 

[sjt18]

It shouldn't be a surprise..this is where UT is supposed to be on NSD. Sadly we had to endure an inept coach for a couple of years and fall off the charts. I'm happy with the class, especially after going 5-7. Like a previous poster said, just wait until we are winning again.

IMO, to say this is to diminish how great Jones and Co did in recruiting.

Dooley probably recruited at expectations or maybe a little better for a program where UT is/was. He wasn't a very good HC. He lost some of the guys he recruited. But it wasn't a "poor" recruiting job on the whole.

What Jones has done is off the charts. You cannot conclude that he is in the Saban stratosphere based on one class any more than you can conclude he is not a good coach based on the '13 season... but he did the best job of any HC in recruiting this year.

The season was not a success. It was subpar from a coach and player standpoint. This class was an unqualified success at the championship level.

Now... they need some wins this fall to keep the recruiting momentum going.

 

[f77f00]

It shouldn't be a surprise..this is where UT is supposed to be on NSD. Sadly we had to endure an inept coach for a couple of years and fall off the charts. I'm happy with the class, especially after going 5-7. Like a previous poster said, just wait until we are winning again.

I am thrilled with this class and think that UT should be a perennial top 10 on signing day. Considering the depths to which we have sunk, I am still surprised that we landed so much quality. Our staff exceeded expectations in a big way, not many schools with our recent history could pull like this.

 

[MedicT]

IMO, to say this is to diminish how great Jones and Co did in recruiting.

Dooley probably recruited at expectations or maybe a little better for a program where UT is/was. He wasn't a very good HC. He lost some of the guys he recruited. But it wasn't a "poor" recruiting job on the whole.

What Jones has done is off the charts. You cannot conclude that he is in the Saban stratosphere based on one class any more than you can conclude he is not a good coach based on the '13 season... but he did the best job of any HC in recruiting this year.

The season was not a success. It was subpar from a coach and player standpoint. This class was an unqualified success at the championship level.

Now... they need some wins this fall to keep the recruiting momentum going.

With a bus load of 18 year old true freshmen?lol:

 

[oregonvol]

IMO, to say this is to diminish how great Jones and Co did in recruiting.

Dooley probably recruited at expectations or maybe a little better for a program where UT is/was. He wasn't a very good HC. He lost some of the guys he recruited. But it wasn't a "poor" recruiting job on the whole.

Disagree. Dooley's recruiting ranking dropped each year. He never finished better than 5th in the SEC. If he did "better than where UT was", then why did the coaches preceding him do significantly better in recruiting than he did?

The funny thing is, when Kiffin left at the last minute, everyone worried that it would hurt our recruiting. But it turned out to be the highest ranked class Dooley ever signed. What actually hurt us was hiring an inept coach just to save 1 recruiting class and sticking with him while he downgraded the program year after year.

 

[sjt18]

With a bus load of 18 year old true freshmen?lol:

No importa.

What he "needs" and what you might consider "reasonable" are two distinctly different things. It will take an elite job of coaching to get to 7 wins this fall and a very good one to get to 6. But if he wants to keep having classes like this one then he cannot post another 5-7, no bowl performance regardless of whether it is "fair" or not.

If he is the elite coach we all hope he is and that UT needs then he will start beating teams he should not beat and winning the games he should with a high level of consistency.

 

[sjt18]

Disagree. Dooley's recruiting ranking dropped each year. He never finished better than 5th in the SEC. If he did "better than where UT was", then why did the coaches preceding him do significantly better in recruiting than he did?

Did they? The 08 class was ranked 35th, the 09 class was a bust, and the 07 class was almost a complete bust.

They are the ones that put UT in a hole... Fulmer more than Kiffin. Dooley was nowhere close to good enough to pull UT out of the pit... but he didn't put them there.

The funny thing is, when Kiffin left at the last minute, everyone worried that it would hurt our recruiting. But it turned out to be the highest ranked class Dooley ever signed. What actually hurt us was hiring an inept coach just to save 1 recruiting class and sticking with him while he downgraded the program year after year.

Dooley failed in many respects. He wasn't an elite recruiter by any stretch but DID do as well as you could expect from an "average" coach who took over a program at such a historically low ebb. Dooley avg'd about 3.4 stars or so over 3 classes. That's about the same as Fulmer's avg over his last 7 classes.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

It does appear that both were anticipated though.

In all honesty, this was the best effort I have seen since joining this board in '05. It is a very talented class of kids without many character question marks. Not only are they highly ranked, many were pursued by the better recruiting programs as well.

But managing the class well made it very low drama.

As many of you know, I have been a determined critic when I thought it was appropriate. However, there is no way to describe what Jones and staff did in recruiting this year except "elite". Saban's 2nd class at Bama was only marginally better according to Rivals and he already had a NC ring.

And they call you negavol...

 

[Volfan2012]

Whats the deal with Brown, knew he had grade issues, is going Juco or prep, does anyone know, he had a heck of a offer list.

He signed with Oklahoma going Juco sign and place.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

Disagree. Dooley's recruiting ranking dropped each year. He never finished better than 5th in the SEC. If he did "better than where UT was", then why did the coaches preceding him do significantly better in recruiting than he did?

The funny thing is, when Kiffin left at the last minute, everyone worried that it would hurt our recruiting. But it turned out to be the highest ranked class Dooley ever signed. What actually hurt us was hiring an inept coach just to save 1 recruiting class and sticking with him while he downgraded the program year after year.

Jones just finished 5th in the country but still 4th in the SEC. I get what you're saying, but Dooley didn't recruit that poorly at least from a class ranking stand point. He absolutely sucked at in-game coaching, player development, leadership, etc etc.

 

[oregonvol]

Did they? The 08 class was ranked 35th, the 09 class was a bust, and the 07 class was almost a complete bust.

They are the ones that put UT in a hole... Fulmer more than Kiffin. Dooley was nowhere close to good enough to pull UT out of the pit... but he didn't put them there.

Are we talking about rankings or are we talking about busts? If the former, then we all know that the 08 class ranking was a huge aberration from what the norm was under Fulmer (and just about every other UT coach ever, pre-Dooley).

If we're talking about busts or the performance of the players signed, then what can you say about the play of the recruits Dooley brought in to achieve the worst record in 100+ years?

Either way you look at it, Dooley ranks at the bottom in UT's history. That's not simply a situation he inherited. That's utter ineptitude. That's running a program into the ground. You can't just blame what he inherited. He actually inherited the best recruiting class he'd ever sign.

Dooley failed in many respects. He wasn't an elite recruiter by any stretch but DID do as well as you could expect from an "average" coach who took over a program at such a historically low ebb. Dooley avg'd about 3.4 stars or so over 3 classes. That's about the same as Fulmer's avg over his last 7 classes.

Yeah, we can agree that he wasn't an elite recruiter. When you get a mulit-million dollar job with a major football program, in the most competitive conference, where your rivals regularly sign top 5-10 classes every year, and you have the highest recruiting budget of anyone and your job depends on bringing in talent to compete with those rivals, then you better be an elite recruiter. "Average" isn't getting it done. "Average" just means you will continue to fall behind.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

Jones just finished 5th in the country but still 4th in the SEC. I get what you're saying, but Dooley didn't recruit that poorly at least from a class ranking stand point. He absolutely sucked at in-game coaching, player development, leadership, etc etc.

I mostly agree with your point. Dooley wasn't a poor recruiter in the absolute sense, but he was in the relative sense. He did a great job while on Saban's staff, but never did as well at UT. I think it's because recruits didn't have much faith in him. In other words, he was much better at selling Saban's goods than his own.

That said, I agree 100% that player development, in-game coaching, and leadership were much bigger issues. And those issues probably led to the weak recruiting.

On the stats, should note that we're 3rd in the SEC in both Rivals and Scout (behind Bama and LSU) this year.

Our class last year was 33rd overall and 10th in the SEC on Scout. (And that class was mostly Dooley's.) For Dooley's last full year, looks like we were 10th in the SEC (on Scout) in 2012, as well. So this is actually a pretty big jump this year.

 

[newandbetter]

Tennessee Football: Why Butch Jones Is the National Recruiter of the Year | Bleacher Report

 

[sjt18]

And they call you negavol...

Just honest when I see something I think is bad and honest when I see something I think is good. I've been called most names that you can be called on both the positive and negative sides.:hi:

 

[sjt18]

Are we talking about rankings or are we talking about busts? If the former, then we all know that the 08 class ranking was a huge aberration from what the norm was under Fulmer (and just about every other UT coach ever, pre-Dooley).

Both but I'm honestly not sure arguing about Dooley or Fulmer's decline at this point is worth the trouble, you?

Either way you look at it, Dooley ranks at the bottom in UT's history. That's not simply a situation he inherited. That's utter ineptitude. That's running a program into the ground. You can't just blame what he inherited. He actually inherited the best recruiting class he'd ever sign.

It was a horrible situation any way you slice or dice it. Go back and look at the first roster he dealt with. No depth anywhere and no talent at a lot of positions outside of Fr.

He took over a program that had already been run into the ground. He didn't fix it... and was rightly fired for not making enough progress toward fixing it. But it was already broken.

 

[sjt18]

Different coaches have approached UT's recruiting in different ways. Kiffin and Dooley both seemed to think they had to recruit nationally though their styles were very different. Neither put a whole lot of stock in developing strong ties to TN HS coaches or maybe any particular coach.

Fulmer was better to an extent but mostly because he was a Tennessee guy IMO.

Jones seems to think it starts with Tennessee and goes out from there.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

I mostly agree with your point. Dooley wasn't a poor recruiter in the absolute sense, but he was in the relative sense. He did a great job while on Saban's staff, but never did as well at UT. I think it's because recruits didn't have much faith in him. In other words, he was much better at selling Saban's goods than his own.

That said, I agree 100% that player development, in-game coaching, and leadership were much bigger issues. And those issues probably led to the weak recruiting.

On the stats, should note that we're 3rd in the SEC in both Rivals and Scout (behind Bama and LSU) this year.

Our class last year was 33rd overall and 10th in the SEC on Scout. (And that class was mostly Dooley's.) For Dooley's last full year, looks like we were 10th in the SEC (on Scout) in 2012, as well. So this is actually a pretty big jump this year.

Ah ok, I was spouting off old data. When I looked earlier this morning TAMU was ahead of us.

Looks like 247 has us 5th behind Bama, LSU, Auburn, & TAMU. FU 247 :finger3:

 

[98utvols]

Different coaches have approached UT's recruiting in different ways. Kiffin and Dooley both seemed to think they had to recruit nationally though their styles were very different. Neither put a whole lot of stock in developing strong ties to TN HS coaches or maybe any particular coach.

Fulmer was better to an extent but mostly because he was a Tennessee guy IMO.

Jones seems to think it starts with Tennessee and goes out from there.

Jones did a great job but in the past there hasn't been the caliber of talent in tennessee that there was this year.