Religious debate (split from main board)

#301
#301
God is not racist. Do you see all christians living in a problem free world, just because they are christians? No. And in some cases you could say that, christians lives on earth can be tougher, and more problematic. For a believer in Christ, and the Bible, it makes sense, and the reason why it does, is because God did not promise us a problem free world. In fact he said it would be full of hardships, and persecution. But if you are living for your time on earth, it will not make any sense.
 
#302
#302
As far as fossils go.

Finding a fossil(s) does not prove evolution. You still have to draw a "human" conclusion (or theory) for what you find.

I have seen it posted on here, that evolution is a continuing cycle, and never stops.
With our technology today, you would think we would have an easier time proving its existance today. If the science was that exact, you could prove it by todays world, and not try and prove something that happened 4.5 billion years ago.
 
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#303
#303
BeecherVol said:
As far as fossils go.

Finding a fossil(s) does not prove evolution. You still have to draw a "human" conclusion (or theory) for what you find.

I have seen it posted on here, that evolution is a continuing cycle, and never stops.
With our technology today, you would think we would have an easier time proving its existance today. If the science was that exact, you could prove it by todays world, and not try and prove something that happened 4.5 billion years ago.
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That's just it, it has been proven. It's been proven through the fossil record, and proven through genetics and molecular biology. That's why it is a scientific theory. Not all of it's intricacies are fully understood, just like not all of gravity and space-time is fully understood, but it has been proven.
 
#304
#304
IPorange said:
That's just it, it has been proven. It's been proven through the fossil record, and proven through genetics and molecular biology. That's why it is a scientific theory. Not all of it's intricacies are fully understood, just like not all of gravity and space-time is fully understood, but it has been proven.
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Some sort of evolution, in a simple "adaptive" form can roughly be verified. Now, " "Origin" is the true issue. And saying that "evolution has been proven" is implying that the theory of spontanious origin of life can and has been confirmed. A long reach and you and I know it. Ever seen how your eye works?
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#305
#305
Orangekush423 said:
Some sort of evolution, in a simple "adaptive" form can roughly be verified. Now, " "Origin" is the true issue. And saying that "evolution has been proven" is implying that the theory of spontanious origin of life can and has been confirmed. A long reach and you and I know it. Ever seen how your eye works?
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Evolution is in no way synonymous with the origin of life, but rather the origin of species. Besides, by the same logic, any element of the creation story that is disproven renders the whole story false. Religion and the Bible are the ones that claim to have all the answers, yet the faithful project that claim onto others.

The eye is quite complex in a human. Very similar to an ape's. Much more efficient than a dog's. If you look at an animal like a planarian, which doesn't have eyes but rather photosensitive spots on it's skin, one can imagine how an eye evolved over time.

The simple light-sensitive spot on the skin of some ancestral creature gave it some tiny survival advantage, perhaps allowing it to evade a predator. Random changes then created a depression in the light-sensitive patch, a deepening pit that made "vision" a little sharper. At the same time, the pit's opening gradually narrowed, so light entered through a small aperture, like a pinhole camera.

Every change had to confer a survival advantage, no matter how slight. Eventually, the light-sensitive spot evolved into a retina, the layer of cells and pigment at the back of the human eye. Over time a lens formed at the front of the eye. It could have arisen as a double-layered transparent tissue containing increasing amounts of liquid that gave it the convex curvature of the human eye.

In fact, eyes corresponding to every stage in this sequence have been found in existing living species. The existence of this range of less complex light-sensitive structures supports scientists' hypotheses about how complex eyes like ours could evolve. The first animals with anything resembling an eye lived about 550 million years ago.
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Evolution: Library: Evolution of the Eye
 
#306
#306
Ill keep on subject and do my best,as I'm self educated, to keep and conduct a logical, respectable debate. But first, 550 million years? For real though? Honestly how could we tell the difference of 550 million and 282 million? You ever seen when they find an unidentified body- in modern technology era? They "guestimate" an age within 3-5 years. 550 million? Cmon now!
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#307
#307
IPorange said:
That's just it, it has been proven. It's been proven through the fossil record, and proven through genetics and molecular biology. That's why it is a scientific theory. Not all of it's intricacies are fully understood, just like not all of gravity and space-time is fully understood, but it has been proven.
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It has not proven evolution. If it was a fact, why do some scientist disagree with it?
 
#308
#308
IPorange said:
Evolution is in no way synonymous with the origin of life, but rather the origin of species. Besides, by the same logic, any element of the creation story that is disproven renders the whole story false. Religion and the Bible are the ones that claim to have all the answers, yet the faithful project that claim onto others.

The eye is quite complex in a human. Very similar to an ape's. Much more efficient than a dog's. If you look at an animal like a planarian, which doesn't have eyes but rather photosensitive spots on it's skin, one can imagine how an eye evolved over time.



Evolution: Library: Evolution of the Eye
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Where did life come from, if not for evolution?
 
#309
#309
IPorange said:
IPorange said:
Evolution is in no way synonymous with the origin of life, but rather the origin of species. Besides, by the same logic, any element of the creation story that is disproven renders the whole story false. Religion and the Bible are the ones that claim to have all the answers, yet the faithful project that claim onto others.
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So if one can't fully understand creation, it is deemed as false. But if evolution can not be fully understood, you can just pick, and choose from the information what is true, and evolution stays intact?

Really?
Sounds similar to "man made" global warming.
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#310
#310
Oldvol75 said:
You wouldn't happen to be a Primative or Hardshell Baptist would you??
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I was raised Southern Baptist, and remained so until about 3 years ago (in my late 30s). I gave up on organized religion at that time as I believe that it is as much about politics and power as it is about helping mankind find it's way to God, and started searching for the truth on my own.
 
#311
#311
Panthro said:
I try to be a good Catholic, so I'm down with JC, I just find it hard to understand why other Christians feel like this.
Jesus died for all of man's sins. I seriously doubt that half of the world is screwed because they might have grown up in a family supporting another religion.
It says that those who believe in Christ shall not perish. I don't think it says that you shall perish if you do not believe in Christ...does it?
I believe the main point of God sending His son to earth was to show us how to live. As long as you love and live (the best you can) like Christ did, then you will have a clear shot to the pearly gates. I do, however, believe that the "mortal sins" are most definitely ones that could reserve yourself a spot down south too.
Now, having said that, I choose to praise at church every week and on every Holy day because I'm thankful. That doesn't mean that I'm arrogant enough to believe that everyone who doesn't share my passion for religion is in the wrong.
God wants to see is in heaven. IMHO
Merry Christmas!
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Down south like Alabama or Mississippi? That would truly be an eternity of suffering!
 
#312
#312
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
I was raised Southern Baptist, and remained so until about 3 years ago (in my late 30s). I gave up on organized religion at that time as I believe that it is as much about politics and power as it is about helping mankind find it's way to God, and started searching for the truth on my own.
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That happens in every denomination at some point. Some more often than others. You can find a solid church, with good leadership, that is seeking out mankind for God's kingdom. Good luck with it.:hi:

Merry Christmas :hi:
 
#313
#313
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
I was raised Southern Baptist, and remained so until about 3 years ago (in my late 30s). I gave up on organized religion at that time as I believe that it is as much about politics and power as it is about helping mankind find it's way to God, and started searching for the truth on my own.
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I understand what you are saying about the politics. But not all the churches ae like that. I always found alot of that kind of stuff in the bigger churches. Thats why I have always prefered the smaller churches. IMHO a church should always have God as its head. There are alot of churches that leave this out now days. They are more worried about this committee and that one. Some of them have forgotten just why they come to church. They forget that we should go to lift up the name of Jesus Christ and to praise God. Its sad but it true. God Bless Brother and I hope you find the peace you are looking for.
 
#314
#314
Oldvol75 said:
I understand what you are saying about the politics. But not all the churches ae like that. I always found alot of that kind of stuff in the bigger churches. Thats why I have always prefered the smaller churches. IMHO a church should always have God as its head. There are alot of churches that leave this out now days. They are more worried about this committee and that one. Some of them have forgotten just why they come to church. They forget that we should go to lift up the name of Jesus Christ and to praise God. Its sad but it true. God Bless Brother and I hope you find the peace you are looking for.
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Good post.

From what I've seen, a lot of the problems that arise in churches spring from those who put themselves first and God in second place, or lower.
 
#315
#315
BeecherVol said:
So if one can't fully understand creation, it is deemed as false. But if evolution can not be fully understood, you can just pick, and choose from the information what is true, and evolution stays intact?

Really?
Sounds similar to "man made" global warming.
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I don't fully understand all the workings of the internal combustion engine in my car, but I know enough to have pretty of good idea about how it does and does not work. Same with biology.
 
#316
#316
IPorange said:
I don't fully understand all the workings of the internal combustion engine in my car, but I know enough to have pretty of good idea about how it does and does not work. Same with biology.
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Whats interesting about the internal combustion engine is, it had a creator.
 
#320
#320
IPorange said:
Not really much of a "gotcha," considering you think everything has a creator...
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Didn't say that it was.
But its kinda hard to imagine, an internal combustion engine (among many things), evolving from scrap metal, to a finish product, without a creator.
 
#321
#321
You made a statement earlier, that evolution was not synonomus with life, but rather with species.

If that is the case, where did life originate?
 
#322
#322
Some think may be a soup of amino acids and lipids gave rise to some primitive proto-cell that got things started, others say more of a sandwhich (similar to the first, but under pressure.) Undersea vents have many of the raw materials for life, and would be protected from harmful UV radiation (before plants came around, there was little oxygen in the atmosphere and consequently no ozone.)
 
#323
#323
IPorange said:
Some think may be a soup of amino acids and lipids gave rise to some primitive proto-cell that got things started, others say more of a sandwhich (similar to the first, but under pressure.) Undersea vents have many of the raw materials for life, and would be protected from harmful UV radiation (before plants came around, there was little oxygen in the atmosphere and consequently no ozone.)
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So in order for life to evolve, from this soup or sandwhich, it had to first form some type of life, then had to evolve into different forms. Then evolve into plants to create oxygen, then from there evolve some type of animal, which eventually turned into a human. I understand that I left out millions upon millions of steps here, but is it really easier to believe that all these things had to fall into place perfectly than to believe it was created?
 
#324
#324
IPorange said:
Some think may be a soup of amino acids and lipids gave rise to some primitive proto-cell that got things started, others say more of a sandwhich (similar to the first, but under pressure.) Undersea vents have many of the raw materials for life, and would be protected from harmful UV radiation (before plants came around, there was little oxygen in the atmosphere and consequently no ozone.)
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So, non living organisms, came together to produce life?
 
#325
#325
just as raw metal comes together to form an engine, oh, and the different types of engines depend on the "curcumstances" and "direction" of the species.
 
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