Religious debate (split from main board)

#451
#451
BeecherVol said:
Your description of a "loss" or "wasted time", is your opinion. The same could be said about your stance.

My wife thinks that watching a 3 hr. football game, is a waste of time. She wonders why you can't just watch the last 5 mins., because the final score, is not gonna change, even if you watch the whole game. While she is correct about the outcome, I don't see it as a loss, or waste of time, that I watched it in its entirety. Thats her opinion, of what is important to her, and mine as well.
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Well, if there is no god, and your love and affection is given to an imaginary person, then you are on a similar level as many people in mental institutions. Do they waste their time loving people in their head? Do their imaginary friends count as a legitimate use of their time? I think that you would want to agree with me there, that by dedicated their lives to something that doesn't exist and that took their mind away from the real world, they have lost something. Only if god is real did you not fritter your life away.

The game is only a good analogy if you tell me also that the game never really occurred, and was a "shadow game". The real game was on the other channel.
 
#452
#452
T-TownVol said:
Bottom line here.......If God does not exist and Jesus did not come to this earth and die and be raised from the dead for our sins......then what I believe makes me a FOOL
The question is........are you willing to bet your eterinty on it?
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I thought gambling was a sin?
 
#454
#454
turambar85 said:
Well, if there is no god, and your love and affection is given to an imaginary person, then you are on a similar level as many people in mental institutions. Do they waste their time loving people in their head? Do their imaginary friends count as a legitimate use of their time? I think that you would want to agree with me there, that by dedicated their lives to something that doesn't exist and that took their mind away from the real world, they have lost something. Only if god is real did you not fritter your life away.

The game is only a good analogy if you tell me also that the game never really occurred, and was a "shadow game". The real game was on the other channel.
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My analogy was directed toward, your right to have an opinion, and my right to disagree with it.

Sorry for the confussion.:hi:
 
#457
#457
IPorange said:
This issue for me arose after a mission trip to Haiti, actually. Many people there think they are Christians, but are actually African traditionalists/Voodooists. They can't grasp the difference because Catholicism has become so intertwined that the words one uses to talk about Christianity now have double meanings. Your answer is the same one I have gotten in this thread before and the one I have always gotten, and as I have said before it doesn't really address the question to say "God is mysterious, he works in his own way." Especially when you admit it is a raw deal.
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I gotcha, and I apologize for not realizing you had heard this. I realize that to argue "love" to those who want no part of God's love with (what I feel) are Biblical Truths with those who think the Bible is a sham is a tireless effort and will only lead to talking in circles. I appreciate you and many others allowing me to make an attempt, and I assure you it was done with a pure motive. I respect you and those who've replied to me, and leave this thread with the promise of prayer for you and others here. See ya in the football forums-we are, after all, brothers in all things Vol! haha
 
#458
#458
Is it not also possible that in some ways both of you are right? I personally am a believer but am willing to admit that our understanding of him can at best be considered limited, how do you understand something beyond human comprehension? In my way of thinking this is where science comes into play, it helps me better understand the scope and media of God's work.

My belief is shaped by my personal experiences and by reading various religious texts, those of some other religions included. It all boils down to personal beliefs, my beliefs don't fall in line with most denominations and I haven't found a church that fits for me yet. My belief and understanding in God is mine, I don't need a church full of people who believe the way I do to validate it for me.
 
#459
#459
IPorange said:
I thought gambling was a sin?
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OH, it is. But there is a great thing about having a relationship with Christ, I am forgiven for that and all the other sins in my life that occur on a daily basis.
The ONLY unforgivable sin is to REJECT God. (If you believe in that sort of stuff)
 
#460
#460
turambar85 said:
Well, while we both may have a right, only one of us is right. I'm more concerned with the latter!
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I know that this will cause you to think even less of my intellect, but, Christians do not have to be "right", we only have to believe. That is what is so great about salvation. God takes care of the rest.
 
#461
#461
T-TownVol said:
I know that this will cause you to think even less of my intellect, but, Christians do not have to be "right", we only have to believe. That is what is so great about salvation. God takes care of the rest.
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No...see...you do have to be right. If the Q'uran is true, then your belief means nothing to 'god'. Only if Christianity is true (hence, your belief is 'right'), is god going to 'take care of the rest'.
 
#462
#462
turambar85 said:
No...see...you do have to be right. If the Q'uran is true, then your belief means nothing to 'god'. Only if Christianity is true (hence, your belief is 'right'), is god going to 'take care of the rest'.
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So, what you are saying here is, there IS an eternal life that I have to be "right" about. See, you are coming around.
You seek scientific proof for your version of "right", I do not.
 
#463
#463
T-TownVol said:
So, what you are saying here is, there IS an eternal life that I have to be "right" about. See, you are coming around.
You seek scientific proof for your version of "right", I do not.
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No, I'm just undermining the claim that you don't have to be right. If there is nothing after death (which I clearly believe to be the case), then your belief will still not give you eternal life. Your belief will only do something for you if correct.

The real difference is that I look for some reason to believe the things I believe to be the case.

The million dollar question; why are you not a Muslim?
 
#464
#464
turambar85 said:
No, I'm just undermining the claim that you don't have to be right. If there is nothing after death (which I clearly believe to be the case), then your belief will still not give you eternal life. Your belief will only do something for you if correct.

The real difference is that I look for some reason to believe the things I believe to be the case.
The million dollar question; why are you not a Muslim?
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I know you do, that is what makes it so hard for you to believe in the simplicity of salvation.

Muslim? You know the answer to that one from what I have already said. It goes back to YOUR definition of "right".
 
#465
#465
T-TownVol said:
I know you do, that is what makes it so hard for you to believe in the simplicity of salvation.

Muslim? You know the answer to that one from what I have already said. It goes back to YOUR definition of "right".
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I'm sorry, elaborate please. I'd prefer, if you would, a simple statement of why you are a Christian (rather than a Muslim, Hindu, or atheist).

And, as for the first part of your response, a desire for rationality actually lends itself readily to simple answers. What it doesn't lend itself to is irrational answers.
 
#466
#466
turambar85 said:
I'm sorry, elaborate please. I'd prefer, if you would, a simple statement of why you are a Christian (rather than a Muslim, Hindu, or atheist).

And, as for the first part of your response, a desire for rationality actually lends itself readily to simple answers. What it doesn't lend itself to is irrational answers.
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It is obvious that your only desire is to argue and dispute every thing that I believe. You know the gospel and choose to reject it. I pray that your heart, not your mind, will be opened to the free gift of salvation from God.
Good Bless and Good Day.
 
#469
#469
T-TownVol said:
It is obvious that your only desire is to argue and dispute every thing that I believe. You know the gospel and choose to reject it. I pray that your heart, not your mind, will be opened to the free gift of salvation from God.
Good Bless and Good Day.
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This is a thread entitled religious debate! :) If you wanted 'religious warm and fuzzy feeling sharing' then you should, perhaps, start the thread. I am only wanting to pursue a line of thought and get you true feelings on the subject. If you have problems with having your beliefs questioned, this may not be the thread for you mate.

If you decide you have the fortitude (testicular or otherwise!) to have you beliefs examined (during which you can examine mine as well), then you can answer my question.

If not, you're just clogging thread space in a place you clearly don't belong.
 
#470
#470
You will find my beliefs all through this 32 page thread. "Calling me out" is a cheap plow that I choose not to participate in. A new athiest come here every few weeks. Welcome.
 
#471
#471
T-TownVol said:
You will find my beliefs all through this 32 page thread. "Calling me out" is a cheap plow that I choose not to participate in. A new athiest come here every few weeks. Welcome.
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All I did was ask you a particular question. It isn't a cheap shot in a debate to ask one person one question. It wasn't even a hard one...
 
#472
#472
turambar85 said:
All I did was ask you a particular question. It isn't a cheap shot in a debate to ask one person one question. It wasn't even a hard one...
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The cheap shot is telling me I do not have the "guts" to answer your question.
The simple truth is, I have answered your question in just about every post. You just want to argue and I will not do that. You have made up your mind and nothing that I, someone that you do not even know, can say will change that.
I will continue this conversation on PM if you like.
 
#473
#473
T-TownVol said:
The cheap shot is telling me I do not have the "guts" to answer your question.
The simple truth is, I have answered your question in just about every post. You just want to argue and I will not do that. You have made up your mind and nothing that I, someone that you do not even know, can say will change that.
I will continue this conversation on PM if you like.
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Well, I only said that (and pardon me if I upset you with it) because you, in a debate thread, got upset with me for arguing with what you had to say. That, and you avoided a direct question.

I only want to argue insofar as argumentation leads to understanding and, possibly, some truth. Whether that would have been for me or you was left to be decided. Also, I guarantee you that things you say could change my mind. I'm a bit of an argument whore; I bid myself out to be best argument. Present it, and I will be your slave.

Anyway, if you don't want to continue this within the thread itself, a PM is fine.
 
#474
#474
turambar85 said:
This is a thread entitled religious debate! :) If you wanted 'religious warm and fuzzy feeling sharing' then you should, perhaps, start the thread. I am only wanting to pursue a line of thought and get you true feelings on the subject. If you have problems with having your beliefs questioned, this may not be the thread for you mate.

If you decide you have the fortitude (testicular or otherwise!) to have you beliefs examined (during which you can examine mine as well), then you can answer my question.

If not, you're just clogging thread space in a place you clearly don't belong.
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Depending on where you want to start, creation and evolution have been discussed in detail in this thread.

I think you have to start with, were did we come from, and how everything we know, came into being.
 
#475
#475
BeecherVol said:
Depending on where you want to start, creation and evolution have been discussed in detail in this thread.

I think you have to start with, were did we come from, and how everything we know, came into being.
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Well, that is a curious place to start, as a theory or origins is not seen valued very highly among either scientists working in evolutionary biology, or in lay atheists. But, anyway, if you want to talk origins, by all means do so. The problem is, it is all going to be highly speculative and rife with metaphysical nastiness.

But, do you mean "what is the origin of life" or do you mean "what is the origin of the universe" or do you mean "what is the origin of life as we know it"?
 
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