Religious debate (split from main board)

#2,103
#2,103
KB5252 said:
It was a combination of factors. His radical ideas (that is exactly what they were considered at the time)threatened the religious establishment, the religious establishment was the authority for the Jews at the time and they could be counted on by the Romans. Any rift in the arrangement would threaten the peace.

This is the most obvious reason of course, please throw some others out as well.
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Do you buy into the argument that the temple episode was the tip of the iceberg?
 
#2,106
#2,106
This may bring this tread back to life.... touchy subject....

1 Corinthians 14

New International Version:
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church


King James Version:
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Thoughts ?
 
#2,107
#2,107
Vols378 said:
This may bring this tread back to life.... touchy subject....

1 Corinthians 14

New International Version:
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church


King James Version:
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Thoughts ?
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Very touchy subject, and one that different denominations deal with VERY differently. All I believe it is saying here is that in order for things to remain Biblical, women should not try to become leaders over men, because that's not what God had intended from the beginning. Now, if a woman is smart in the Word, they should be able to help with the children and help the man when they need it. I don't necessarily believe in a woman pastor, but as long as she understands her position as a wife and mother, I don't see a BIG problem with it. Sometimes, we forget what sacrifices and struggles are made and faced when be a pastor or leader. I, for one, applaud them all, man or woman.
 
#2,108
#2,108
Vols378 said:
This may bring this tread back to life.... touchy subject....

1 Corinthians 14

King James Version:
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 And let them bring you beer and snack whilst you are watching UT football; and they shall remain silent while the game is on unless they are cheering for Orange nation.
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fyp
 
#2,110
#2,110
Vols378 said:
This may bring this tread back to life.... touchy subject....

1 Corinthians 14

New International Version:
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church


King James Version:
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Thoughts ?
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Another of the most misunderstood passages in the bible........

This is up there with an eye for an eye. An eye for an eye means compensation for the eye you lost. Nothing more and nothing less.

The passages mentioned are addressed to specific churches and their set of traditions which they hold dear.

The lesson is that traditions of different churches do not translate universally nor should they.
 
#2,111
#2,111
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Very touchy subject, and one that different denominations deal with VERY differently. All I believe it is saying here is that in order for things to remain Biblical, women should not try to become leaders over men, because that's not what God had intended from the beginning. Now, if a woman is smart in the Word, they should be able to help with the children and help the man when they need it. I don't necessarily believe in a woman pastor, but as long as she understands her position as a wife and mother, I don't see a BIG problem with it. Sometimes, we forget what sacrifices and struggles are made and faced when be a pastor or leader. I, for one, applaud them all, man or woman.
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I believe the above passage pertains only to the business of the church.
In Timothy, Paul gave the requirements for the offices of Bishop and Deacon, and the Pastoral duties.
All of these requiresment are for a man. No woman was among the 12 deciples nor among the 70 he sent out in Luke. Per the Bible, Man is to hold the offices of the church.

From my understanding of the Bible, men and women are equal in spiritual privilege. I have heard women make some very spiritual testimonies in church.
 
#2,112
#2,112
Or maybe the culture of the middle east is such that women are seen as subserviant to men, and the bible is just a cultural relic.... Nah. Women are just beneath us men.
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#2,113
#2,113
IPorange said:
Or maybe the culture of the middle east is such that women are seen as subserviant to men, and the bible is just a cultural relic.... Nah. Women are just beneath us men.
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I have never understood how people can't see that.
 
#2,114
#2,114
IPorange said:
Or maybe the culture of the middle east is such that women are seen as subserviant to men, and the bible is just a cultural relic.... Nah. Women are just beneath us men.
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the ole "change with the times" arguement......classic
 
#2,115
#2,115
IPorange said:
Or maybe the culture of the middle east is such that women are seen as subserviant to men, and the bible is just a cultural relic.... Nah. Women are just beneath us men.
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What do you stand to gain by disproving the Bible? You constantly lurk and throw snide comments every chance you get.

Is it that deep down, you are not 100% sure there is not a God, so you try to make everyone around you doubt so you feel reassurance?

Or, are you still just trying to get back at your parents for making you go to church all those years when you now know the truth?

Why can't you just say, "you all are idiots, but have fun"?

Just curious, because every time there is a religious comment on here, you are not far behind it.
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#2,116
#2,116
ridethelightening said:
What do you stand to gain by disproving the Bible? You constantly lurk and throw snide comments every chance you get.

Is it that deep down, you are not 100% sure there is not a God, so you try to make everyone around you doubt so you feel reassurance?

Or, are you still just trying to get back at your parents for making you go to church all those years when you now know the truth?

Why can't you just say, "you all are idiots, but have fun"?

Just curious, because every time there is a religious comment on here, you are not far behind it.
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I find religious beliefs interesting. I also enjoy learning about Native American myths and Eastern religions. I just find it interesting how people make things real for themselves, by ignoring the little things that reveal these beliefs systems to all be products of man, and actually mundane. And I really doubt I am making anyone "doubt" their beliefs that wasn't doubting all on their own.

My point here was that the bible is so man-centric, one has to consider who actually wrote these things down. No just god would marginalize some merely because of something as arbitrary as gender (which he created and declared to be "good.")

It isn't really a religious debate if everyone agrees, anyway...
 
#2,117
#2,117
I think some valid points have been made by all here. There is no doubt that attitudes toward women were very different in Biblical times and remained that way when the current accepted books of the Bible were consolidated. There are other books that were contemporaries with them that shed a very different light on key figures and even listed a certain woman as a key disciple of Jesus. I think we all know the woman in question.
 
#2,118
#2,118
IPorange said:
I find religious beliefs interesting. I also enjoy learning about Native American myths and Eastern religions. I just find it interesting how people make things real for themselves, by ignoring the little things that reveal these beliefs systems to all be products of man, and actually mundane. And I really doubt I am making anyone "doubt" their beliefs that wasn't doubting all on their own.

My point here was that the bible is so man-centric, one has to consider who actually wrote these things down. No just god would marginalize some merely because of something as arbitrary as gender (which he created and declared to be "good.")

It isn't really a religious debate if everyone agrees, anyway...
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I love Native American mythology and spiritualism, I've always found it very interesting. There is something so simple and respectful about their attitudes toward the spiritual world. There is no doubt the Europeans did not understand them in the least.
 
#2,119
#2,119
Man was always the dominate figure throughout the Bible. Not sure why that would change when God established His church.
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#2,120
#2,120
IPorange said:
I find religious beliefs interesting. I also enjoy learning about Native American myths and Eastern religions. I just find it interesting how people make things real for themselves, by ignoring the little things that reveal these beliefs systems to all be products of man, and actually mundane. And I really doubt I am making anyone "doubt" their beliefs that wasn't doubting all on their own.

My point here was that the bible is so man-centric, one has to consider who actually wrote these things down. No just god would marginalize some merely because of something as arbitrary as gender (which he created and declared to be "good.")

It isn't really a religious debate if everyone agrees, anyway...
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God created MAN, and saw that he needed a companion. Gender was obviously something He concerned himself with
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#2,121
#2,121
IPorange said:
I find religious beliefs interesting. I also enjoy learning about Native American myths and Eastern religions. I just find it interesting how people make things real for themselves, by ignoring the little things that reveal these beliefs systems to all be products of man, and actually mundane. And I really doubt I am making anyone "doubt" their beliefs that wasn't doubting all on their own.

My point here was that the bible is so man-centric, one has to consider who actually wrote these things down. No just god would marginalize some merely because of something as arbitrary as gender (which he created and declared to be "good.")

It isn't really a religious debate if everyone agrees, anyway...
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A "just" God did create the woman as a "helpmate" for man. Gender is 100% a factor in his plan for man.
He did say that it was "good". Nice twist of the meaning though.
 
#2,122
#2,122
To the best of my knowledge Jesus opened the door to eternal salvation to both men and women. Plus the fact he first appeared to women after his ressurection and he openly told a samaritan woman at the well he was the messiah tells me he held women in the proper esteem.
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#2,123
#2,123
Gospel of Mary, anyone?

Chapter 9

1) When Mary had said this, she fell silent, since it was to this point that the Savior had spoken with her.

2) But Andrew answered and said to the brethren, Say what you wish to say about what she has said. I at least do not believe that the Savior said this. For certainly these teachings are strange ideas.

3) Peter answered and spoke concerning these same things.

4) He questioned them about the Savior: Did He really speak privately with a woman and not openly to us? Are we to turn about and all listen to her? Did He prefer her to us?

5) Then Mary wept and said to Peter, My brother Peter, what do you think? Do you think that I have thought this up myself in my heart, or that I am lying about the Savior?

6) Levi answered and said to Peter, Peter you have always been hot tempered.

7) Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.

8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.

9) That is why He loved her more than us. Rather let us be ashamed and put on the perfect Man, and separate as He commanded us and preach the gospel, not laying down any other rule or other law beyond what the Savior said.

10) And when they heard this they began to go forth to proclaim and to preach.
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#2,124
#2,124
bamacheats said:
To the best of my knowledge Jesus opened the door to eternal salvation to both men and women. Plus the fact he first appeared to women after his ressurection and he openly told a samaritan woman at the well he was the messiah tells me he held women in the proper esteem.
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yes he did...and the appearing to the women after the ressurection....he was hungry :)
 
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