Retired 3-Star General Michael Flynn

#27
#27
Bombing is an effective strategy against a militaristic terrorist group like ISIS. But if you have these secret cells of suicide bombers and terrorist training camps then a more effective strategy is policing. It allows for less blame to be put on the West.
 
#28
#28
alexmanu said:
Bombing is an effective strategy against a militaristic terrorist group like ISIS. But if you have these secret cells of suicide bombers and terrorist training camps then a more effective strategy is policing. It allows for less blame to be put on the West.
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Not disagreeing, but Im trying to figure out how someone can applaud bombing and demonize water boarding. One kills the other is uncomfortable. One has the potential for killing innocents and one has the potential for coughing.
 
#29
#29
tim said:
Not disagreeing, but Im trying to figure out how someone can applaud bombing and demonize water boarding. One kills the other is uncomfortable. One has the potential for killing innocents and one has the potential for coughing.
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I'm against torture not for moral reasons but because the evidence gleaned from such methods is notoriously unreliable.

But yeah I see where you're coming from.
 
#30
#30
alexmanu said:
I'm against torture not for moral reasons but because the evidence gleaned from such methods is notoriously unreliable.

But yeah I see where you're coming from.
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Torture can lead to false info if not vetted, agreed. Death is permanent and provides zero intelligence. I prefer capture, interview, and then???? I have not come to terms with what should come next. Not opposed to death penalty, but there should be some carrot for cooperating.
 
#31
#31
tim said:
How is bombing more humane than water boarding?
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Again I must ask where I said Bombing is more humane than waterboarding.

What I said and I will stand by it.

1. If we are going to bomb I prefer we use a drone.

2. I consider waterboarding torture.

Their is no comparison between a bomb and waterboarding. I suggest you use something that is comparable to make your point. You are failing terrible at this point.
 
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#33
#33
Gramps said:
Again I must ask where I said Bombing is more humane than waterboarding.

What I said and I will stand by it.

1. If we are going to bomb I prefer we use a drone.

2. I consider waterboarding torture.

Their is no comparison between a bomb and waterboarding. I suggest you use something that is comparable to make your point. You are failing terrible at this point.
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No comparison? One is deemed torture and the other is an accepted choice. It's some silly ideology that we are somehow morally superior because we refuse to pour water on people's faces. Not only do you accept bombing people you accept we do it in a video game fashion.
 
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#34
#34
tim said:
No comparison? One is deemed torture and the other is an accepted choice. It's some silly ideology that we are somehow morally superior because we refuse to pour water on people's faces. Not only do you accept bombing people you accept we do it in a video game fashion.
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Well you do not understand the difference .....
 
#36
#36
I think what he is trying to say is some people need to be killed. His preferred method of doing this is a drone strike. The folks that have been captured that don't need killing, he does not believe water boarding is an acceptable way to extract information.

He is separating 2 different things that should be separated.
 
#38
#38
This is by far the dumbest premise to try to criticize Obama I've seen here. So collateral damage from drones causes resentment, but boots on the ground in their territory, also causing collateral damage, is just awesome?
 
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#39
#39
lawgator1 said:
This is by far the dumbest premise to try to criticize Obama I've seen here. So collateral damage from drones causes resentment, but boots on the ground in their territory, also causing collateral damage, is just awesome?
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It's not about Obama (so you can actually pretend to be a real liberal ITT and oppose intervention). And to your question the answer is a seemingly obvious no.
 
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#41
#41
lawgator1 said:
This is by far the dumbest premise to try to criticize Obama I've seen here. So collateral damage from drones causes resentment, but boots on the ground in their territory, also causing collateral damage, is just awesome?
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Its no more stupid than getting hung up on a term while we drop said bombs.
 
#42
#42
tim said:
How is bombing more humane than water boarding?
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seems like a simple, straight forward question.

came home to me when we decided to kill a US citizen via drone AND refused to make known the criteria all the while investigating the personnel involved in the 3 (IIRC) waterboarding incidents.

Give me a choice and I'd rather be waterboarded
 
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#43
#43
lawgator1 said:
This is by far the dumbest premise to try to criticize Obama I've seen here. So collateral damage from drones causes resentment, but boots on the ground in their territory, also causing collateral damage, is just awesome?
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Wait, are you saying this is dumber than than suggesting if Obama said the words "radical Islam" would start a religious war but his droning isn't doing that?

You sir are an international relations master.
 
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#44
#44
volinbham said:
seems like a simple, straight forward question.

came home to me when we decided to kill a US citizen via drone AND refused to make known the criteria all the while investigating the personnel involved in the 3 (IIRC) waterboarding incidents.

Give me a choice and I'd rather be waterboarded
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It is intended to be simple. But harder to get an answer from some as if it were a trick question. The real problem is the fear of answering and revealing their political preference. It's not my intention. I personally would like to see more intelligence and less indiscriminate bombings. Utilize other countries. Sanctions work. There is a better way.
 
#45
#45
volinbham said:
Wait, are you saying this is dumber than than suggesting if Obama said the words "radical Islam" would start a religious war but his droning isn't doing that?

You sir are an international relations master.
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Your logic skills are atrocious.

Obviously, we are going to drone them wherever we are confident we can get to them, bearing in mind the risks. But to have the leader of the West take the stage and frame the debate as Christianity versus Islam, yes, that is what ISIS wants and he's not going to give it to them.

Tell you what, other than like Trump, any of the rational GOP candidates, if they actually were to win the general and take office, would rapidly dial back their rhetoric to the contrary.
 
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#46
#46
lawgator1 said:
Your logic skills are atrocious.

Obviously, we are going to drone them wherever we are confident we can get to them, bearing in mind the risks. But to have the leader of the West take the stage and frame the debate as Christianity versus Islam, yes, that is what ISIS wants and he's not going to give it to them.

Tell you what, other than like Trump, any of the rational GOP candidates, if they actually were to win the general and take office, would rapidly dial back their rhetoric to the contrary.
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Who said he had to frame the debate that way? Didn't realize the only stance was one against the other. That would be the definition of atrocious logic.

The best propaganda ISIS or any other radical islamic group has is bombs and boots in your neighborhood.
 
#47
#47
lawgator1 said:
Your logic skills are atrocious.

Obviously, we are going to drone them wherever we are confident we can get to them, bearing in mind the risks. But to have the leader of the West take the stage and frame the debate as Christianity versus Islam, yes, that is what ISIS wants and he's not going to give it to them.

Tell you what, other than like Trump, any of the rational GOP candidates, if they actually were to win the general and take office, would rapidly dial back their rhetoric to the contrary.
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Any rhetoric generated has been by his own hand. Trying to politicize the deaths of Brown, Garner, and Martin do not come off as a tad bit non presidential to you?
 
#48
#48
lawgator1 said:
Your logic skills are atrocious.

Obviously, we are going to drone them wherever we are confident we can get to them, bearing in mind the risks. But to have the leader of the West take the stage and frame the debate as Christianity versus Islam, yes, that is what ISIS wants and he's not going to give it to them.

Tell you what, other than like Trump, any of the rational GOP candidates, if they actually were to win the general and take office, would rapidly dial back their rhetoric to the contrary.
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He doesn't have to because it's not.

He could easily frame the debate as what it is, radical islam vs western democracy and freedom. Why would that be to much to ask of the leader of the free world?
 
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#49
#49
hog88 said:
He doesn't have to because it's not.

He could easily frame the debate as what it is, radical islam vs western democracy and freedom. Why would that be to much to ask of the leader of the free world?
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Because he is on the wrong side of the debate?
 
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#50
#50
BeecherVol said:
Who said he had to frame the debate that way? Didn't realize the only stance was one against the other. That would be the definition of atrocious logic.

The best propaganda ISIS or any other radical islamic group has is bombs and boots in your neighborhood.
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what he^ said

I'll add that almost every other Western leader has labeled these acts as radical Islam yet they are not suggesting it is a war between Islam and other religions.

It is ludicrous to suggest using that label to accurately describe these acts 1) would be worse than the killing of innocents we've perpetrated and 2) would "ramp things up".
 
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