Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

[Vols8086]

I disagree. I think a lot of candidates would be turned off if we let anyone other than Rick Barnes decide when Rick Barnes leaves.

Do you have an example of this happening at a major university? Or is this just exclusive to us?

 

[Hoggervol]

Pushing Barnes out, no matter how the next hire works out, is the wrong move. Long term, successful TN coaches will jump at any perceived better opportunity and get out before there is ANY degree of regression. It will also make attracting top coaches far more difficult.

TN has a reputation for tossing aside successful coaches. No need to build on that legacy. Football pushed out two native sons. Devoe was blown out immediately after getting back to the NCAAT. Pearl and Green were fired after never missing an NCAAT. Cuonzo was run off by idiot fans (immediately after winning 3 in the NCAAT). UT’s “fan” base is chock full of loud idiots.

 

[Vols8086]

TN has been a revolving door of head FB and BB coaches in the 2000s. Pushing out one that has the basketball program competing at the highest level is just plain stupid.

A revolving door of coaches has a lot to do with lack of leadership from above. Danny White appears to be a massive upgrade from what we have had in the past.

I hate to break it to you, but the program will survive after Barnes. Whenever or however we arrive to his conclusion.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

A revolving door of coaches has a lot to do with lack of leadership from above. Danny White appears to be a massive upgrade from what we have had in the past.

I hate to break it to you, but the program will survive after Barnes. Whenever or however we arrive to his conclusion.

Most likely will survive at a much lower level. What the current program needs more than anything else is for breaks to go their way. TN is now consistently very good. Starting over is stupid.

 

[Vols8086]

Most likely will survive at a much lower level. What the current program needs more than anything else is for breaks to go their way. TN is now consistently very good. Starting over is stupid.

Maybe. Maybe not. Assuming we would regress is you putting very little credence to Danny White and his ability to hire.

 

[Clad in Big Orange]

It is possible to be very happy with Barnes’ tenure here and not wanting him fired, PLUS being very disappointed with this collapse and blaming the state of the roster/offensive woes on the head coach. It’s not a for or against proposition with most of us.

 

[SGMVols]

Maybe. Maybe not. Assuming we would regress is you putting very little credence to Danny White and his ability to hire.

Look I think Danny White is great. But if he had his way, Tony Elliott would be our football coach today. He only fell back on Heupel after Elliott said no. we didn’t become a “name your coach” program just by hiring him.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I’m sorry, but this narrative that our program is absolute dog crap and nobody would want to come here is nonsense. You act like Barnes is the only person to ever be successful here and that it’s all downhill otherwise.

I’m very appreciative of Barnes time and successes here. I’m thankful for what he has done and has built. However you’re acting like he is Pat Summitt and that the program being stuck in neutral or sliding (not suggesting we are sliding as a program overall but I do think we have hit a plateau) should be overlooked due to his accomplishments. Like we owe him even more than the top 10 salary he is getting paid. He hasn’t earned that level of loyalty here as far as I’m concerned.

Plenty of schools push out coaches perhaps earlier than they should. Which is why they all negotiate these buyouts. They know it’s a business. Texas is a great example and they haven’t had any problems landing the next coach. Why? Because they are willing to pay for them. It’s really that simple. Had UCLA paid Barnes buyout he would probably be at UCLA. That’s how this industry works.

Pushing Barnes out is the wrong move if you get the next hire wrong. It’s the right move if you get the next hire right. That’s really all there is to it. Firing Barnes doesn’t get us blackballed by coaches.

Where in the blue hell did I say that? Seriously, WTF are you even responding to.

My God, this place has become a freakin sewer because of this bull**** where one side runs with a narrative and argues crap that wasn't even said.

And LOL did you just use Texas as an example. Are you effin' serious? Do you even think before you post?

 

[Pennheel]

Barnes doesn't strike me as the type to want to coach too much longer. He is a man committed to his family and his faith. He's close to where he grew up,and has stabilized a program that hasn't been that in a long time before he came to UT. He's not a type like Boeheim or Pitino,both who are lifers like Bear Bryant where coaching their respective sport was all they have/had. Pushing him out is not the answer.

I'd say within the next 2 to 3 years he'll be ready to retire. White will have time to find a good replacement by then.

 

[Clad in Big Orange]

Barnes doesn't strike me as the type to want to coach too much longer. He is a man committed to his family and his faith. He's close to where he grew up,and has stabilized a program that hasn't been that in a long time before he came to UT. He's not a type like Boeheim or Pitino,both who are lifers like Bear Bryant where coaching their respective sport was all they have/had. Pushing him out is not the answer.

I'd say within the next 2 to 3 years he'll be ready to retire. White will have time to find a good replacement by then.

Very well said. Thanks for your perspective. If White is as smart as I think, he’s keeping his eyes open for what this program needs in its next chapter. Barnes deserves to go out on his terms and I don’t think that will be much longer.

 

[hog88]

Pushing Barnes out, no matter how the next hire works out, is the wrong move. Long term, successful TN coaches will jump at any perceived better opportunity and get out before there is ANY degree of regression. It will also make attracting top coaches far more difficult.

TN has a reputation for tossing aside successful coaches. No need to build on that legacy. Football pushed out two native sons. Devoe was blown out immediately after getting back to the NCAAT. Pearl and Green were fired after never missing an NCAAT. Cuonzo was run off by idiot fans (immediately after winning 3 in the NCAAT). UT’s “fan” base is chock full of loud idiots.

We do? What successful coaches have we tossed out?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

We do? What successful coaches have we tossed out?

Majors. Fulmer. Devoe. Green. Pearl. Plus Cuonzo could have been successful here had the pitchfork toting fans not been after him from the beginning.

 

[hog88]

Majors. Fulmer. Devoe. Green. Pearl. Plus Cuonzo could have been successful here had the pitchfork toting fans not been after him from the beginning.

Other than Fulmer who needed to be gone and Cuonzo who left on his own accord your talking about coaches from well over 20 years ago (Pearl earned his firing). Come on, it's ridiculous to even think we have a reputation for tossing out successful coaches. Nobody is taking into consideration what happened over 20 years past under completely different administrations when deciding on whether to take a job or not.

 

[YankeeVol]

Other than Fulmer who needed to be gone and Cuonzo who left on his own accord your talking about coaches from well over 20 years ago (Pearl earned his firing). Come on, it's ridiculous to even think we have a reputation for tossing out successful coaches. Nobody is taking into consideration what happened over 20 years past under completely different administrations when deciding on whether to take a job or not.

By letter of the law from the NCAA, but realistically he didn't even do anything lol

 

[hog88]

By letter of the law from the NCAA, but realistically he didn't even do anything lol

I agree.

 

[Real Info]

Majors. Fulmer. Devoe. Green. Pearl. Plus Cuonzo could have been successful here had the pitchfork toting fans not been after him from the beginning.

I did not like how Majors was done, or even Fulmer, not getting a chance after his last season, but football is a different monster at Tennessee. Basketball really isn’t as bad as it looks. DeVoe wasn’t that good tbh. He could coach but couldn’t recruit well enough. His last team underachieved badly too. Green inherited some talent, and had some talent come along, but he let some potential Final 4 talent teams underachieve too. Pearl was fired because of lying to NCAA, so to me they all did themselves in, not the fans.

 

[beachvol23]

Majors. Fulmer. Devoe. Green. Pearl. Plus Cuonzo could have been successful here had the pitchfork toting fans not been after him from the beginning.

zo jumped before getting fired and if JRich didn’t save that end of season, it would’ve been much worse. And NO, he would not have had success here, see Cal and Mizzou for reference
as for the other coaches, there were unique circumstances to them behind the scenes that are well documented!

I am in group of fans that as much as I dislike Rick Barnes-Warlick-Weakley’s floor coaching and offense, he is consistently “good” and almost great, and does at least deserve to retire when he wants, unless something catastrophic happens or his teams suddenly start sucking really bad. However he does deserve fair criticism as well!

Sheep disclaimer: For the door to be opened, we must knock and he’s had our guys knocking a lot with regular top 5-10 teams, so hopefully one of the teams will eventually make a long run. I think this slump at least sets us up well to regroup and finish the season hot! I know it’s wishful thinking and I know his stats, but the toughness of this team overall is impressive.

 

[LibertyVol]

I’m sorry, but this narrative that our program is absolute dog crap and nobody would want to come here is nonsense. You act like Barnes is the only person to ever be successful here and that it’s all downhill otherwise.

I’m very appreciative of Barnes time and successes here. I’m thankful for what he has done and has built. However you’re acting like he is Pat Summitt and that the program being stuck in neutral or sliding (not suggesting we are sliding as a program overall but I do think we have hit a plateau) should be overlooked due to his accomplishments. Like we owe him even more than the top 10 salary he is getting paid. He hasn’t earned that level of loyalty here as far as I’m concerned.

Plenty of schools push out coaches perhaps earlier than they should. Which is why they all negotiate these buyouts. They know it’s a business. Texas is a great example and they haven’t had any problems landing the next coach. Why? Because they are willing to pay for them. It’s really that simple. Had UCLA paid Barnes buyout he would probably be at UCLA. That’s how this industry works.

Pushing Barnes out is the wrong move if you get the next hire wrong. It’s the right move if you get the next hire right. That’s really all there is to it. Firing Barnes doesn’t get us blackballed by coaches.

Why would you fire him? I cannot think of a move more stupid than firing Barnes. Besides who would you get that is better. Tennessee had the best team in the league last year. They played 21 conference games and lost four. One of those games Tennessee had guys out due to Covid. They have had injuries and have lost a few games, several of these were very close. The season is not over either. My goodness.

 

[hog88]

Why would you fire him? I cannot think of a move more stupid than firing Barnes. Besides who would you get that is better. Tennessee had the best team in the league last year. They played 21 conference games and lost four. One of those games Tennessee had guys out due to Covid. They have had injuries and have lost a few games, several of these were very close. The season is not over either. My goodness.

It would be stupid to fire Barnes at this point but him and White need to be discussing a transition plan. When will he retire and how he can help the program when he does. Barnes can't stay indefinitely and hold the program hostage hes 68 years old, conversations need to be had.

 

[LibertyVol]

Maybe. Maybe not. Assuming we would regress is you putting very little credence to Danny White and his ability to hire.

Danny White a genius? If Danny White could find better would he not have done so already? That is kind of like his job. I guess he should fire the baseball coach too. They lost a couple of games to unranked teams.

 

[LibertyVol]

It would be stupid to fire Barnes at this point but him and White need to be discussing a transition plan. When will he retire and how he can help the program when he does. Barnes can't stay indefinitely and hold the program hostage hes 68 years old, conversations need to be had.

I think that is a good idea. Probably have already done that.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

So easy to hire a better replacement, right???

Ok answer me this…How many P5 coaches have made last 4 NCAAT? Of those how many are making it this year? Of those, how many have a 75%+ winning percentage?

I’ll await this list…

 

[JMSqb11]

Tennessee got 0 pushback for firing Pearl, outside of part of the fan base.

If Barnes got fired in two weeks, I'd have confidence White could identify a good coach and we'd get them. If Barnes retired I'd feel the same way.

History suggests that any moderately competent coach can succeed here. Jerry Green and Cuonzo won 20+ and made the Sweet 16 and they are mediocre coaches at best. Buzz was awful and a stupid hire.

Someone made this point last night. White would prolly make a solid hire. However, Tennessee is paying $5M+ for its basketball coach. It would be incompetency if White was to go the analytical, mid major type hire without going after the "money hire" first.... Scott Drew makes $3.5M at Baylor.... I would hands down dangle 5-6 million out in front him to make him say no..... Of course the obvious coaching hire that would be best is Beard. Even with the baggage, he's going to rehab his career.

 

[LibertyVol]

Someone made this point last night. White would prolly make a solid hire. However, Tennessee is paying $5M+ for its basketball coach. It would be incompetency if White was to go the analytical, mid major type hire without going after the "money hire" first.... Scott Drew makes $3.5M at Baylor.... I would hands down dangle 5-6 million out in front him to make him say no..... Of course the obvious coaching hire that would be best is Beard. Even with the baggage, he's going to rehab his career.

The best hire is the guy coaching at Tennessee right now.

 

[JMSqb11]

The best hire is the guy coaching at Tennessee right now.

I agree. I must make a disclaimer.... I am in no way advocating for Barnes to leave the job until he decides so. He has earned it based on the rebuild he has done. However, I do think we are closer to the end than we are the beginning.... I think most people thought if Barnes could stabilize our program, which he exceeded by lightyears, we could get 6-8 years out of him..... we are in Year 8 and Barnes is 68..... I think it is realistic that he is going to be out of here by 2025.... I have never seen him more engaged and active on the sidelines game in and out like I have seen him this year. I truly believe he knows this team is his deepest, not best, roster he has ever built and is likely his last decent shot at defying his career trend in the postseason.... I thiink the team is playing tight and is very anxious almost every game....

With all that said, I think the "post Barnes" convos are going to start as it does seem that we are close to his era ending here. I personally do not want to extend his contract at all given his age. I would much rather give him 1 year pay raises instead of contract years.... It just saves us trouble if things turn south and rewards him for his service.

I personally love the fact Barnes is able to make Tennessee a program that is committing big bucks to the staff.... I think and pray that White, when the time comes, goes hard after established P5 coaches before going to up and comer route. That is all.

I have loved the Barnes era through and through.... I think more than 8 years out of him at Tennessee would have been a big "HELL YES" if we were offered that when we hired him....