Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

#627
#627
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Your dimes weren’t part of the fund created to keep Barnes from jumping to UCLA.
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Barnes annual bump from the UCLA payraise was 1% of the annual athletic department budget. (Going from 3.3 to 4.7 in the first year after the pay bump). Obviously the big donors are kept in the loop but most of the $150MM in athletic department revenues are from non mega boosters.
 
#629
#629
BigOrangeMojo said:
Barnes annual bump from the UCLA payraise was 1% of the annual athletic department budget. (Going from 3.3 to 4.7 in the first year after the pay bump). Obviously the big donors are kept in the loop but most of the $150MM in athletic department revenues are from non mega boosters.
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Most of the AD’s revenue is from the TV contracts and TN’s share of NCAAT and bowl money distributed by the conference.
 
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#630
#630
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Most of the AD’s revenue is from the TV contracts and TN’s share of NCAAT and bowl money distributed by the conference.
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True but a 1.4MM increase in Barnes salary after UCLA wasn't a huge undertaking for a 140-150MM budget that uses every accounting gimmick to try to show as small of a profit as possible.

The big boosters are much more involved when there's a coach to be terminated than when one is extended.
 
#631
#631
BigOrangeMojo said:
True but a 1.4MM increase in Barnes salary after UCLA wasn't a huge undertaking for a 140-150MM budget that uses every accounting gimmick to try to show as small of a profit as possible.

The big boosters are much more involved when there's a coach to be terminated than when one is extended.
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The fiscal year runs 7/1 to 6/30. A bump for Barnes wasn’t in the budget.
 
#632
#632
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The fiscal year runs 7/1 to 6/30. A bump for Barnes wasn’t in the budget.
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You're a smart guy and you got an accounting background TGO. 3 months is plenty of time to delay a renovation or accelerate ticket deposits/contributions, tweak some indirect allocation, reserves, etc. Especially since bulk of that pay raise wouldn't really hit til the next fiscal year.
 
#633
#633
BigOrangeMojo said:
You're a smart guy and you got an accounting background TGO. 3 months is plenty of time to delay a renovation or accelerate ticket deposits/contributions, tweak some indirect allocation, reserves, etc. Especially since bulk of that pay raise wouldn't really hit til the next fiscal year.
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They wouldn’t look at it like that. Capital budgets are separate. Funds are budgeted, allocated, and designated. They can’t easily have unfavorable variances on the coaches salaries lines. Especially as a public institution. They also need to guarantee the out years in case the future budgets don’t allow it (not likely that the funds would be denied, but Barnes would have needed a promise to walk away from the UCLA money).
 
#634
#634
Thunder Good-Oil said:
They wouldn’t look at it like that. Capital budgets are separate. Funds are budgeted, allocated, and designated. They can’t easily have unfavorable variances on the coaches salaries lines. Especially as a public institution. They also need to guarantee the out years in case the future budgets don’t allow it (not likely that the funds would be denied, but Barnes would have needed a promise to walk away from the UCLA money).
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A lot easier to guarantee the back end with a strong and giving non mega donor fanbase. Memphis found out the hard way with Tubby Smith.

Memphis had one donor make that call to hire Tubby. The fanbase was apathetic at the end of the Pastner Era and became moreso after Tubby. That donor ended up writing a huge check
 
#635
#635
BigOrangeMojo said:
A lot easier to guarantee the back end with a strong and giving non mega donor fanbase. Memphis found out the hard way with Tubby Smith.

Memphis had one donor make that call to hire Tubby. The fanbase was apathetic at the end of the Pastner Era and became moreso after Tubby. That donor ended up writing a huge check
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TN didn’t have the time to organize the base to counter UCLA. They needed an immediate guarantee with the state approved contract to follow. Barnes was about to walk away.
 
#636
#636
Thunder Good-Oil said:
TN didn’t have the time to organize the base to counter UCLA. They needed an immediate guarantee with the state approved contract to follow. Barnes was about to walk away.
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There's no official booster guarantee in these contracts (if so, you'd be able to FOIA it). Yes, the big time boosters know about the terms and they can speak up (supposedly this happened at FSU when Jimbo left). Obviously, it's implied that boosters would have to pay if a coach is fired but a formal "guarantee" would likely hurt the charitable deduction these guys get. You've seen the athletic dept pick up the past several football buyouts in its operating expenses.
 
#637
#637
BigOrangeMojo said:
There's no official booster guarantee in these contracts (if so, you'd be able to FOIA it). Yes, the big time boosters know about the terms and they can speak up (supposedly this happened at FSU when Jimbo left). Obviously, it's implied that boosters would have to pay if a coach is fired but a formal "guarantee" would likely hurt the charitable deduction these guys get. You've seen the athletic dept pick up the past several football buyouts in its operating expenses.
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I didn’t say that the booster would be in the UT contract. But there could easily be a private, bridge agreement between Barnes and booster(s) ensuring that UT will come through or else the booster will be accountable for the make good.
 
#639
#639
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I didn’t say that the booster would be in the UT contract. But there could easily be a private, bridge agreement between Barnes and booster(s) ensuring that UT will come through or else the booster will be accountable for the make good.
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Without me being privy to what Barnes/UT/booster does, I don't want to speculate. In my tax career, I haven't seen it done that way from booster perspective but again, I haven't seen many of these. The one I'm most familiar with was much, much more informal (but dealt with smaller dollars too) and did not involve UT.
 
#640
#640
ColinS said:
By the same token, these same donors will pony up your buyout and run you out of town without a moments notice. Barnes is not trending well right now. He needs a good run this March.
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There aren’t many empty seats in the TBA right now. We’ll see how the Great Vol Season Ticket Purge shakes out in basketball. I haven’t made a final decision, but I think I’m going to give up football tickets and hang on to basketball. Football gets a little bit of an offset with the decreased supply.
 
#641
#641
Also I think that it will take a dive in recruiting in addition to missing the second weekend for Barnes to start considering hanging it up. Even minus KC and BHH, this is a great class with QD, ZZ, Aidoo, JM, Tamba, and the Powell transfer. Plus BJE will take a lot of sting off of losing KC. If CRB strikes out in the next cycle he might not want to keep fooling with it much longer. Personally I’ve been more stoked about the 2022-23 season if the upper class men stick around.
 
#643
#643
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Was there a rebuilding of a program in there somewhere?
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How many recruiting classes ago was that now? And I know, we're not a Blue Blood so making the tourney every year is a stellar performance for a HOF coach. Yadayadayada
 
#645
#645
What's the point of firing Barnes? UTAD doesn't have the balls to make a bold hire and boosters apparently don't want to fund a big name. Fire Barnes and all you wind up with is an unproven up and comer or a geezer looking for one last payday before retirement.
 
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#646
#646
Just getting to the tournament isn’t how teams like Tennessee should be measured, though. When you stack elite recruiting classes and pay your head coach Final Four money, you should expect to make the tournament virtually every season and then make some deep runs once you get there. That’s what Tennessee is paying for, right? That’s the level Tennessee is recruiting at, right?

But does anything about this team make you believe something like that will happen? The Vols, as presently constructed, look like a one-weekend team in the tournament. And make no mistake, that would be a large disappointment. Not fire-your-coach disappointment. Not burn-your-mattress disappointment. Not pathetically-assemble-in-a-parking-lot-and-demand-Bruce-Pearl disappointment. But genuine disappointment.

Rick Barnes’ head belongs nowhere near a guillotine at the moment, but it’s basic common sense to suggest that last season was subpar and this season is trending in a more subpar direction. As good as Tennessee’s defense is — and it’s really, really good — this offense is too erratic to make a deep run in the postseason. And that good defense isn’t always backed by solid play on the boards, as we saw again Saturday night.
Rucker: Barnes hasn't put Vols' puzzle together yet
 
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#647
#647
1985Vols said:
Tony Basilio has mentioned this several times on his show. Take it for what it’s worth
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Basilio is full of crap on almost everything when it comes to basketball. He’s had an agenda against Barnes from the day he was hired, all because Barnes won’t go on his show like Tyndall did. If Danny White had a beef with Barnes, why did he give Barnes an extension this past summer? Completely illogical.
 
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#650
#650
BP4Prez said:
Barnes is here until he decides he’s ready to retire.
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Of course when White is ready to move on from Barnes , the spin will be Barnes has decided to retire. It’s always that way with these long term coaches whether the AD quietly pushes them out the door or not
 
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