Road Officiating

#1

newyorkvol

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#1
First of all, I don’t want to sound like I’m blaming officiating. However…..

I read a stat on Twitter yesterday that the only live ball penalty against Tennessee opponents in three road games was 3 minutes into the Florida game.

In total, the home team in those games was penalized 10/56. Tennessee penalized 27/204. Tennessee was also the favored team in 2/3 of those games.

So, my question is this….

1) Is Tennessee just that undisciplined?
2) is this just a statistical anomaly?
3) is there actually something nefarious going on?
4) is it just referee incompetence/indifference?
 
#2
#2
First of all, I don’t want to sound like I’m blaming officiating. However…..

I read a stat on Twitter yesterday that the only live ball penalty against Tennessee opponents in three road games was 3 minutes into the Florida game.

In total, the home team in those games was penalized 10/56. Tennessee penalized 27/204. Tennessee was also the favored team in 2/3 of those games.

So, my question is this….

1) Is Tennessee just that undisciplined?
2) is this just a statistical anomaly?
3) is there actually something nefarious going on?
4) is it just referee incompetence/indifference?
I would say it is a gambling issue. Has been notoriously worse since betting on games has become legal abroad. There are no consequences for bad officiating. Which to me is absolutely killing a once great sport. Like the new rules this year to shorten games. Yet we get more commercials on a tv broadcast. The NCAA doesn't give a damn how long these kids play, they care about the paycheck.
 
#6
#6
I fashioned a tin foil hat before saying this, but it dern sure does feel like someone is out to get us.

I have often wondered if it were some kind of personaL vendetta. Maybe Heup called someone a name or said something about their momma, but after Kensucky, it feels much bigger than that.

The only thing that truly makes sense is that the conference truly does want bama and UGAly in the driver's seat
 
#11
#11
First of all, I don’t want to sound like I’m blaming officiating. However…..

I read a stat on Twitter yesterday that the only live ball penalty against Tennessee opponents in three road games was 3 minutes into the Florida game.

In total, the home team in those games was penalized 10/56. Tennessee penalized 27/204. Tennessee was also the favored team in 2/3 of those games.

So, my question is this….
Thanks for pointing out the difference when UT is on the road.
1) Is Tennessee just that undisciplined?
I think there have been problems with pre-snap penalties on the road. However that does not explain the ticky-tac calls UT has gotten when the opponent has gotten away with much worse.

The D holding penalty vs Bama still bothers me a lot. He did grab the WR out of his break but immediately let him go. Had the throw been on target, it would have actually been a catch so it did not seriously impede the route. The same thing or worse was routinely done by Bama DBs... and has been since Saban arrived there.

Here's the part that really bothers me. It happened just when Bama needed a 1st down to continue their comeback. The timing as much or more than the bad call is what bothers me.
2) is this just a statistical anomaly?
No. Not claiming to know why it has happened but UT just played two of the most penalized teams in the SEC. There wasn't a single live play flag thrown on either in spite of obvious fouls... repeatedly. Maybe unconscious bias. Maybe they don't like UT's tempo and punish the Vols for it. Maybe they don't like Heupel. Maybe they're influenced by the crowds (though I haven't seen UT with a similar benefit in live play calls at home). I do not know. But this is not just a statistical blip.
3) is there actually something nefarious going on?
Really hard to say. If it were then there's a decent chance that it actually involves SEC leadership. In fact, it would be hard to pull off without them involved. In that case, I don't think it would be about gambling... but would be about money.

The SEC leadership has a strong vested interest in assuring an SEC team in the playoff. There's obviously reputation at stake but also a lot of revenue. The Big 10 could fill two spots. FSU could take one of those if undefeated. Texas is almost certain to fill a spot. The SEC needs an undefeated or one loss team to make a claim. The PAC 12 will have someone with one loss or undefeated. The most likely scenario right now is Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, and ?.

The SEC NEEDS a West team with one loss in the CG. The only candidate is Bama. That "comeback" aided by some timely flags or no calls was necessary to preserve the possibility of a one loss Bama facing UGA.

IMHO, this is the most likely reason for the bias in the Bama game. The UK game may have been an attempt to pin another loss on UT to validate the Bama game.
4) is it just referee incompetence/indifference?
IMO it is not indifference. Incompetence probably plays a role. These are judgment calls happening high speed. They're trying to apply training that turns "gray" to mud when it comes to whether a foul impacts the outcome of the play or things like that. Officials are being asked things like if a OL's hands are too far outside or not.

PI has become pretty ridiculous. UT has had DBs hanging on WR's arms without getting a call. That circus catch Squirrel made a few games back should have been called PI for sure. Many teams, Bama in particular, ride WRs all the way down the field including the whole time the ball is in the air and the catch attempt is made. I cannot tell you the point where officials are making "bad" calls compared to following the training they're given.
 
#14
#14
Don't worry, Greg Sankey is working on this. So that SEC officials don't appear guilty of "home cooking", the UT/Georgia game will be used as a "correction".
We will get an unsportsmanlike as we get off the bus. Will likely be penalized an automatic touchdown removal for wearing orange as well.
 
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#15
#15
Two games in a row where the opposing team didn’t commit one holding penalty when clearly there’s evidence of them doing so.

never seen not one live ball foul in back to back road games in my 50 plus yrs of watching ball.something going on for sure.
The crazy thing is that it was nearly three full games. Florida was called for a hold 3min into the first quarter and then not another live ball penalty for the renaming 57min.
 
#17
#17
A poster said, "Here's the part that really bothers me. It happened just when Bama needed a 1st down to continue their comeback. The timing as much or more than the bad call is what bothers me."

I've been watching UT football for a very long time - hence my vol board name. Unless it is a blowout and Alabama is clearly outmatched by UT,....

...Alabama always gets calls when it is most critical for them to win. UT gets holding calls when completing long passes for first downs; Alabama routinely holds UT WRs coming out of their break - rarely (if ever) called; UT grabs an Bama WR and releases prior to the break or after - holding is called when Bama needs a first down to extend a drive. I've talked to UT fans since the early 80s about this - although level headed - most agree that there seems to be a bias in officiating.

I could go on....

What to do?

Prior to the games next season with UF (who has mastered the art of pass-interference and holding opponents WRs) and with Alabama (OT holds DE, DB pass interference/holding), CJH needs to say ALL WEEK on EVERY PRESS CONFERENCE that he hopes the opponents tackles won't get away with holding our DEs and opponent's DBs won't get away with holding our WRs.

....when playing at home....

When playing in Knoxville, SHOW THE UNCALLED HOLDING on the JUMBO TRON. Eventually, the broadcasters will show it and comment.

There needs to be more repercussions that officials getting away with it, SEC favorites getting a pass and fans complaining every year - year in and year out. None of this has produced any progress toward officiating bias in the SEC.
 
#18
#18
Thanks for pointing out the difference when UT is on the road.

I think there have been problems with pre-snap penalties on the road. However that does not explain the ticky-tac calls UT has gotten when the opponent has gotten away with much worse.

The D holding penalty vs Bama still bothers me a lot. He did grab the WR out of his break but immediately let him go. Had the throw been on target, it would have actually been a catch so it did not seriously impede the route. The same thing or worse was routinely done by Bama DBs... and has been since Saban arrived there.

Here's the part that really bothers me. It happened just when Bama needed a 1st down to continue their comeback. The timing as much or more than the bad call is what bothers me.

No. Not claiming to know why it has happened but UT just played two of the most penalized teams in the SEC. There wasn't a single live play flag thrown on either in spite of obvious fouls... repeatedly. Maybe unconscious bias. Maybe they don't like UT's tempo and punish the Vols for it. Maybe they don't like Heupel. Maybe they're influenced by the crowds (though I haven't seen UT with a similar benefit in live play calls at home). I do not know. But this is not just a statistical blip.

Really hard to say. If it were then there's a decent chance that it actually involves SEC leadership. In fact, it would be hard to pull off without them involved. In that case, I don't think it would be about gambling... but would be about money.

The SEC leadership has a strong vested interest in assuring an SEC team in the playoff. There's obviously reputation at stake but also a lot of revenue. The Big 10 could fill two spots. FSU could take one of those if undefeated. Texas is almost certain to fill a spot. The SEC needs an undefeated or one loss team to make a claim. The PAC 12 will have someone with one loss or undefeated. The most likely scenario right now is Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, and ?.

The SEC NEEDS a West team with one loss in the CG. The only candidate is Bama. That "comeback" aided by some timely flags or no calls was necessary to preserve the possibility of a one loss Bama facing UGA.

IMHO, this is the most likely reason for the bias in the Bama game. The UK game may have been an attempt to pin another loss on UT to validate the Bama game.

IMO it is not indifference. Incompetence probably plays a role. These are judgment calls happening high speed. They're trying to apply training that turns "gray" to mud when it comes to whether a foul impacts the outcome of the play or things like that. Officials are being asked things like if a OL's hands are too far outside or not.

PI has become pretty ridiculous. UT has had DBs hanging on WR's arms without getting a call. That circus catch Squirrel made a few games back should have been called PI for sure. Many teams, Bama in particular, ride WRs all the way down the field including the whole time the ball is in the air and the catch attempt is made. I cannot tell you the point where officials are making "bad" calls compared to following the training they're given.
The is why officials need to be from the overall governing body and not the sec or any conference. Of course the bad thing is I don’t have any confidence in the NCAA to organize a 1 car funeral much less be over officials. We need a new governing body made up of a transparent people that keep the universities and fans up to date on the goings on of all things. The NCAA has totally proven they are out of touch and incapable. People just want to see things run fairly with and promptly. We do need professional officials that have a oversight committee to answer too and are evaluated every week. The power 5 has the money to do this, and to form a new governing body. GBO
 
#19
#19
To me, it isn't the fouls called on us. For the most part, those are reasonably fair calls. It's the complete lack of calls we get called for us/ against our opponents. You're telling me Bama/ Kentucky/ Florida combined to hold or pass interfere zero times in 177 minutes of football? Almost 3 full games? That's unbelievable.
 
#20
#20
A poster said, "Here's the part that really bothers me. It happened just when Bama needed a 1st down to continue their comeback. The timing as much or more than the bad call is what bothers me."

I've been watching UT football for a very long time - hence my vol board name. Unless it is a blowout and Alabama is clearly outmatched by UT,....

...Alabama always gets calls when it is most critical for them to win. UT gets holding calls when completing long passes for first downs; Alabama routinely holds UT WRs coming out of their break - rarely (if ever) called; UT grabs an Bama WR and releases prior to the break or after - holding is called when Bama needs a first down to extend a drive. I've talked to UT fans since the early 80s about this - although level headed - most agree that there seems to be a bias in officiating.

I could go on....

What to do?

Prior to the games next season with UF (who has mastered the art of pass-interference and holding opponents WRs) and with Alabama (OT holds DE, DB pass interference/holding), CJH needs to say ALL WEEK on EVERY PRESS CONFERENCE that he hopes the opponents tackles won't get away with holding our DEs and opponent's DBs won't get away with holding our WRs.

....when playing at home....

When playing in Knoxville, SHOW THE UNCALLED HOLDING on the JUMBO TRON. Eventually, the broadcasters will show it and comment.

There needs to be more repercussions that officials getting away with it, SEC favorites getting a pass and fans complaining every year - year in and year out. None of this has produced any progress toward officiating bias in the SEC.
Good idea to run it on the jumbo tron. Public humiliation needs to be used since all other avenues are being denied.
 
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#22
#22
The is why officials need to be from the overall governing body and not the sec or any conference. Of course the bad thing is I don’t have any confidence in the NCAA to organize a 1 car funeral much less be over officials. We need a new governing body made up of a transparent people that keep the universities and fans up to date on the goings on of all things. The NCAA has totally proven they are out of touch and incapable. People just want to see things run fairly with and promptly. We do need professional officials that have a oversight committee to answer too and are evaluated every week. The power 5 has the money to do this, and to form a new governing body. GBO
Why not contract it out to a completely independent body? I agree that being employees of the SEC or NCAA creates a conflict. That is made worse by the fact that most SEC officials as far as I know live in an SEC state.
 
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#23
#23
I expect an evenly called game against UConn now that everyone is aware and watching for bias. Then the next two weeks I expect to see an effort to give a nudge to Missou and Georgia at critical times. We might get a few calls early, but late calls will not go our way. Book it.
 
#25
#25
First of all, I don’t want to sound like I’m blaming officiating. However…..

I read a stat on Twitter yesterday that the only live ball penalty against Tennessee opponents in three road games was 3 minutes into the Florida game.

In total, the home team in those games was penalized 10/56. Tennessee penalized 27/204. Tennessee was also the favored team in 2/3 of those games.

So, my question is this….

1) Is Tennessee just that undisciplined?
2) is this just a statistical anomaly?
3) is there actually something nefarious going on?
4) is it just referee incompetence/indifference?
This really feels weird this year. I don't trust the NCAA, or the SEC, or the fallible men who are officials. It is also documented that organized crime has regularly influenced the affairs of collegiate sports. This year just really feels off. Capped by what everyone saw in Tuscaloosa. The UK game was the 1st this season that felt fairly officiated to me. Not perfect. But, we're out of the race at this point.

Are these "games" being manipulated? IDK, but something seems amiss. The NFL has seemed that way for a while now, but I quit watching it anyway.
 

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