Romney can't win

#51
#51
lawgator1 said:
I know the difference.

I think they should all be taxed as ordinary income at the same rate. Have said so on here many times.
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But that's not how you're framing the issue. You want to play class warfare and pretend that Romney is somehow cheating the system.

This is the worst kind of politics.... And I don't even like Romney all that much.
 
#54
#54
GAVol said:
But that's not how you're framing the issue. You want to play class warfare and pretend that Romney is somehow cheating the system.
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No, never said he is breaking the rules.

But he is in that class of people and politicians that make up the rules to their advantage.

Its like saying the Gators get to have 9 downs every series to make 10 yards and the Vols get 2 downs.
 
#55
#55
lawgator1 said:
Would be fine if it would work.

It won't.
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if the govt was limited to only spend money on what it was supposed to/allowed to do then there is plenty of money even at the lower rate

lawgator1 said:
But he is in that class of people and politicians that make up the rules to their advantage.
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how does Romney have any control over the tax rate?
 
#56
#56
Good grief. He pays 6.2 million dollars in taxes and the government lovers complain.

Why do people focus on how much he makes instead of focusing on the amount of his money he gives to the government?
 
#58
#58
lawgator1 said:
No, never said he is breaking the rules.

But he is in that class of people and politicians that make up the rules to their advantage.

Its like saying the Gators get to have 9 downs every series to make 10 yards and the Vols get 2 downs.
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Or kind of like creating a health care law that forces new burdens on employers all over the country, but then giving your friends/donors exemptions?
 
#59
#59
lawgator1 said:
No, never said he is breaking the rules.

But he is in that class of people and politicians that make up the rules to their advantage.

Its like saying the Gators get to have 9 downs every series to make 10 yards and the Vols get 2 downs.
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You're mixing apples and oranges whenever it suits you.
 
#60
#60
lawgator1 said:
No, never said he is breaking the rules.

Umm, you said he was practicing income and tax dodging in another thread. You claimed he was "hoarding" monies in the Caymans as a way to lower his taxes (this doesn't lower his taxes).

But he is in that class of people and politicians that make up the rules to their advantage.

He didn't make the rules but you use guilt by association.

Its like saying the Gators get to have 9 downs every series to make 10 yards and the Vols get 2 downs.
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In the running for worst analogy ever.
 
#63
#63
If you want to lower rates, and balance the budget, then you will have to increase rates somewhere else. Cuts can only account for so much of this. And the American people, particularly the middle class, would never stand for the enormous cuts you would have to make to Medicare and Social Security when they are paying a much higher rate than is someone like Romney who makes such enormous wealth.

Therein lies the problem. Neither Romney, nor Gingrich, nor really any GOP nominee, can credibly make the argument to the electorate that Romney's taxes should be even lower than they already are. And so if you want to reduce the deficit, how can you justify this?

You can't.

This just plays so into the Democrats' wheelhouse its like it was scripted or something.
 
#64
#64
lawgator1 said:
If you want to lower rates, and balance the budget, then you will have to increase rates somewhere else. Cuts can only account for so much of this. And the American people, particularly the middle class, would never stand for the enormous cuts you would have to make to Medicare and Social Security when they are paying a much higher rate than is someone like Romney who makes such enormous wealth.

Therein lies the problem. Neither Romney, nor Gingrich, nor really any GOP nominee, can credibly make the argument to the electorate that Romney's taxes should be even lower than they already are. And so if you want to reduce the deficit, how can you justify this?

You can't.

This just plays so into the Democrats' wheelhouse its like it was scripted or something.
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1) I don't see anyone including Romney suggesting that his taxes should be lower.

2) To counter your argument - you cannot raise taxes on the rich enough to pay for all the spending we do now and balance the budget. Defense and Entitlements must be cut.

3) Why not adopt the Debt Commission's recommendation on taxation - you know the Obama appointed commission? Most of the GOP is advocating the same framework - Obama is resisting.
 
#65
#65
volinbham said:
1) I don't see anyone including Romney suggesting that his taxes should be lower.


LOL, wut? Gingrich expressly does. Says so all the time and did last night.


2) To counter your argument - you cannot raise taxes on the rich enough to pay for all the spending we do now and balance the budget. Defense and Entitlements must be cut.

I agree. But how can you cut Medicare and social security, that people paid into and are literally banking on, while the super wealthy twist the tax laws to suit their own personal circumstances ?


3) Why not adopt the Debt Commission's recommendation on taxation - you know the Obama appointed commission? Most of the GOP is advocating the same framework - Obama is resisting.

This claim again? Obama has suggested a number of proposals that would dramatically reduce the debt, preserve what little wealth the middle class has left, and eliminate the Bush tax cuts on the wealthiest.

Its the GOP establishment that resists that because they are in the hip pocket of the wealthiest. And in some cases are the wealthiest.
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And people wonder why there is class warfare. Sheesz.
 
#66
#66
Obama hasn't made any serious proposals on tax reform or debt reduction. His one budget was so unserious that it was rejected unanimously.

You're seriously just making stuff up at this point.
 
#67
#67
lawgator1 said:
But how can you cut Medicare and social security, that people paid into and are literally banking on, while the super wealthy twist the tax laws to suit their own personal circumstances ?
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1) it was never intended to be the sole retirement account for anyone.

2) I will forfeit every cent I've paid in if I can opt out right now. I am not part of the super wealthy either

lawgator1 said:
And people wonder why there is class warfare. Sheesz.
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yeah this thread is clearly against that sort of thing
 
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#68
#68
VolsNSkinsFan said:
I really hope Obama makes this an issue. The baby boomers and 401k generation will see right through this bs
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Obama will make tax rates an issue. I think he will tonight in his SOU address.

It will be something like:

A professional couple that is making $150,000.00 per year and paying 28% in income taxes while the wealthy are not paying their fair share. Example: Mitt Romney making 20 Million a year is paying 14% while this hard working couple is paying 28%. It's just not fair. The wealthy keep getting richer on the backs of the working class.

Sam and Ann a couple from OH were both working, earning $67,000 per year. Two year ago the plant they were working at closed it's door and moved overseas. Sam nor Ann have not been able to find another job and have been trying to survive of their unemployment checks. They had just bought a home 5 year ago and could not make their mortgage payments. Thanks to the home loan modification program we passed, they have been able to stay in their home. It is not fair that good people like Sam and Ann are having such a hard time just to survive while the wealthiest Americans are not paying their fair share.
 
#69
#69
Gramps said:
Obama will make tax rates an issue. I think he will tonight in his SOU address.

It will be something like:

A professional couple that is making $150,000.00 per year and paying 28% in income taxes while the wealthy are not paying their fair share. Example: Mitt Romney making 20 Million a year is paying 14% while this hard working couple is paying 28%. It's just not fair. The wealthy keep getting richer on the backs of the working class.

Sam and Ann a couple from OH were both working, earning $67,000 per year. Two year ago the plant they were working at closed it's door and moved overseas. Sam nor Ann have not been able to find another job and have been trying to survive of their unemployment checks. They had just bought a home 5 year ago and could not make their mortgage payments. Thanks to the home loan modification program we passed, they have been able to stay in their home. It is not fair that good people like Sam and Ann are having such a hard time just to survive while the wealthiest Americans are not paying their fair share.
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Could be.

We can argue until the cows come home about whether its right or wrong, moral or immoral, just or unjust, fair or unfair.

I just think that, with the middle class so discouraged right now and everyone so suspicious of both the wealthy and the Congress/federal government, Romney cannot win in that environment.
 
#70
#70
lawgator1 said:
Could be.

We can argue until the cows come home about whether its right or wrong, moral or immoral, just or unjust, fair or unfair.

I just think that, with the middle class so discouraged right now and everyone so suspicious of both the wealthy and the Congress/federal government, Romney cannot win in that environment.
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Doesn't Obama fall into the same boat?
 
#73
#73
golfballs03 said:
Doesn't Obama fall into the same boat?
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Somewhat, although he pays taxes at a rate of 26 %, which is much more inline with the middle class. Think his income was like $1.7 million. High, of course, but not in the same class as Romney.

He would have the obvious moral high ground here.


volinbham said:
you are the perpetuator of class warfare in this thread.
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I am not sure that is a bad thing at this point. Something has got give and its going to have to be the super wealthy.

Sorry.

I guess I am engaging in class warfare and pretty proud to do so at the moment. I think its coming and how the establishment deals with being in bed with the wealthy will tell the story of whether our country survives or not.

Regardless, Romney is done.
 
#74
#74
Okay, let's get some facts on the table.

The average effective tax rate for people making less than $100K is 8% or lower. This crap about Buffet's secretary paying a higher rate than him is conflating marginal rates and effective rates.

The average effective tax rate for people making between $100 and $200K is 12%.

About 95% of tax payers paid a lower effective rate (on average) than Romney did.

David Plouffe has already misrepresented the data saying middle income families are paying a higher rate than Romney and we will here this again tonight.

The Tax Foundation - Romney
 
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