Running on 3rd and long.

#27
#27
While we must run the ball to be effective, I wish we'd maybe pass on 2nd down after a nice 1st down run. It seems like on 2nd down they're expecting us to run it again and we get those long 3rd downs. Use 3rd down as a play action down that the QB uses at his discretion depending on the defense he sees.
 
#28
#28
Volizona said:
Listen, I’m thrilled that we pulled out victories against Florida and Bama. However, I am still confused as to why Heupel keeps trying to run on 3rd and long. I’m not talking 3 and 3 or 4, I’m talking about 3 and 8, 3 and 10 or more. Seems like we are wasting 3rd downs a lot by not even trying to throw it. I’m not a football strategy genius at all. Can anyone explain a strategic reason we keep doing this? It doesn’t seem to be fooling anyone.
Click to expand...

third down plays versus Alabama. Really not many that you describe but lot of passes on third downs

1st quarter
3 /7 Pass complete to McCoy 1st down
3/10 Pass incomplete - Punt
3/13 Pass Incomplete PI on Bama
3/9 Pass complete but short of 1st down- Missed FG

2nd quarter
3/9 Moore pass intercepted
3/7 pass incomplete miss FG on 4th down

3rd quarter
3/4 complete pass 1st down
3/20 Nico rushed 9 yards 4th down
3/6 Nico pass complete 1st down

4th quarter
3/2 Bishop runs 1st down
3/1 Bishop runs 1st down
3/10 Bishop runs 18 yards called back for penalty
3/5 Bishop for 1 yard 4th down
3/5 incomplete pass penalty on Bama 1st down
3/7 complete pass short punt
3/4 Sampson for 2 yds kick FG
 
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#30
#30
BillyHoyleVol said:
Mitigates loss or turnover. Let your punter do his job by flipping the field and put it on your defense to get stops. It’s sound with the way the defense is playing, but unfortunately we’ve found ourselves in that position WAY too often. Maybe we can build a little off the momentum of the second half and start to get some things going on offense. I don’t think we can play a field position game for 4 quarters against Georgia.
Click to expand...

I think the Georgia game will be a defensive slug fest.
 
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#31
#31
Volizona said:
Listen, I’m thrilled that we pulled out victories against Florida and Bama. However, I am still confused as to why Heupel keeps trying to run on 3rd and long. I’m not talking 3 and 3 or 4, I’m talking about 3 and 8, 3 and 10 or more. Seems like we are wasting 3rd downs a lot by not even trying to throw it. I’m not a football strategy genius at all. Can anyone explain a strategic reason we keep doing this? It doesn’t seem to be fooling anyone.
Click to expand...
3 things can happen when you throw the football. Two of them are bad.

When your defense is as good as the Big Orange D is, you choose to minimize risk, if you're wise.
 
#33
#33
EZE said:
Heupel plays chess…while the VN armchair QBs are thinking about how to get in the king row.
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Ha! Shows what you know. Once you make the king row you get an extra checker and can even jump backwards! It’s twice as good because you have 2 checkers.
 
#34
#34
Depends on field position. 3rd and long a lot of the times you have the numbers
 
#35
#35
Volizona said:
Listen, I’m thrilled that we pulled out victories against Florida and Bama. However, I am still confused as to why Heupel keeps trying to run on 3rd and long. I’m not talking 3 and 3 or 4, I’m talking about 3 and 8, 3 and 10 or more. Seems like we are wasting 3rd downs a lot by not even trying to throw it. I’m not a football strategy genius at all. Can anyone explain a strategic reason we keep doing this? It doesn’t seem to be fooling anyone.
Click to expand...
I love it when a poster asks an honest question, instead of puffing up and throwing accusations at our know-nothing coaches. Well done, Volizona!

To add another wrinkle to the many accurate responses already posted (i.e., don't play into what the defense is hoping you'll do) there is also one favorable roll of the dice that occasionally will work our way.

If the defensive line stunts when they rush our QB on 3rd and long, and the running play we called just happens to hit the hole that was just vacated by a stunting defensive tackle, our RB could be just one missed tackle away from hitting some good yardage. And if one or two receivers got good blocking angles on their DBs, 7 yards could quickly become 15-20 yards.

Like I said, it's a roll of the dice for everything to fall into place, but there's also little downside to a safe running play, especially with our punter and defense.
 
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#36
#36
LWSVOL said:
third down plays versus Alabama. Really not many that you describe but lot of passes on third downs

1st quarter
3 /7 Pass complete to McCoy 1st down
3/10 Pass incomplete - Punt
3/13 Pass Incomplete PI on Bama
3/9 Pass complete but short of 1st down- Missed FG

2nd quarter
3/9 Moore pass intercepted
3/7 pass incomplete miss FG on 4th down

3rd quarter
3/4 complete pass 1st down
3/20 Nico rushed 9 yards 4th down
3/6 Nico pass complete 1st down

4th quarter
3/2 Bishop runs 1st down
3/1 Bishop runs 1st down
3/10 Bishop runs 18 yards called back for penalty
3/5 Bishop for 1 yard 4th down
3/5 incomplete pass penalty on Bama 1st down
3/7 complete pass short punt
3/4 Sampson for 2 yds kick FG
Click to expand...
Don’t bring up pesky things like facts.

Situational though for sure. Like if you’re trying to burn clock or force them to use timeouts you’re going to run the ball where you know for sure the clock is going to run. If you’re in the shadow of your own goal line and need room to punt you run the ball. To line up and ensure a good FG on third and very long.
 
#38
#38
LWSVOL said:
third down plays versus Alabama. Really not many that you describe but lot of passes on third downs

1st quarter
3 /7 Pass complete to McCoy 1st down
3/10 Pass incomplete - Punt
3/13 Pass Incomplete PI on Bama
3/9 Pass complete but short of 1st down- Missed FG

2nd quarter
3/9 Moore pass intercepted
3/7 pass incomplete miss FG on 4th down

3rd quarter
3/4 complete pass 1st down
3/20 Nico rushed 9 yards 4th down
3/6 Nico pass complete 1st down

4th quarter
3/2 Bishop runs 1st down
3/1 Bishop runs 1st down
3/10 Bishop runs 18 yards called back for penalty
3/5 Bishop for 1 yard 4th down
3/5 incomplete pass penalty on Bama 1st down
3/7 complete pass short punt
3/4 Sampson for 2 yds kick FG
Click to expand...
Hmm. Ok, thanks. I thought there were more runs on 3rd and 4 or more, but there only about 4. Maybe it’s more about 2nd down runs instead as others suggest.
 
#39
#39
LWSVOL said:
third down plays versus Alabama. Really not many that you describe but lot of passes on third downs

1st quarter
3 /7 Pass complete to McCoy 1st down
3/10 Pass incomplete - Punt
3/13 Pass Incomplete PI on Bama
3/9 Pass complete but short of 1st down- Missed FG

2nd quarter
3/9 Moore pass intercepted
3/7 pass incomplete miss FG on 4th down

3rd quarter
3/4 complete pass 1st down
3/20 Nico rushed 9 yards 4th down
3/6 Nico pass complete 1st down

4th quarter
3/2 Bishop runs 1st down
3/1 Bishop runs 1st down
3/10 Bishop runs 18 yards called back for penalty
3/5 Bishop for 1 yard 4th down
3/5 incomplete pass penalty on Bama 1st down
3/7 complete pass short punt
3/4 Sampson for 2 yds kick FG
Click to expand...

I think it’s the 3rd and 5 in the fourth. I think we were running it expecting 2-3 yards so we could go for it on 4th and when that didn’t happen we punted
 
#40
#40
Always remember...good drives end in kicks. If your drive ends in a kick, it couldve been alot worse. It means you gained points or field position.
 
#41
#41
BillyHoyleVol said:
Mitigates loss or turnover. Let your punter do his job by flipping the field and put it on your defense to get stops. It’s sound with the way the defense is playing, but unfortunately we’ve found ourselves in that position WAY too often. Maybe we can build a little off the momentum of the second half and start to get some things going on offense. I don’t think we can play a field position game for 4 quarters against Georgia.
Click to expand...
With our defense, that is the correct call.
 
#42
#42
Volizona said:
Hmm. Ok, thanks. I thought there were more runs on 3rd and 4 or more, but there only about 4. Maybe it’s more about 2nd down runs instead as others suggest.
Click to expand...

I believe his play calls is all about pressure and the inability for the OL to protect. They get dictated by the flow of the game and what is happening. As others said, a few were dictated by field position, one Sampson run was from the 5 yard line to get more room to punt. The Nico run when 3rd and 20 was a scramble away from pressure.

I've found that if people recall a few plays that sticks in their minds and feels like it happens all the time. Its just human nature. But when you review the situations and plays, most of the time you can see the reasons for a play call. We all have that type recall when the game action is going on.
 
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#43
#43
Volizona said:
Listen, I’m thrilled that we pulled out victories against Florida and Bama. However, I am still confused as to why Heupel keeps trying to run on 3rd and long. I’m not talking 3 and 3 or 4, I’m talking about 3 and 8, 3 and 10 or more. Seems like we are wasting 3rd downs a lot by not even trying to throw it. I’m not a football strategy genius at all. Can anyone explain a strategic reason we keep doing this? It doesn’t seem to be fooling anyone.
Click to expand...
Aaaahhhh, you ask a great question Grasshopper. The REAL question that needs to be answered is why are we in 3rd and long waaaaay too often??

(hint: look at our play calling on first down in the Arky, FL and Bama games, esp in the first half. Coaches are trying to win the game way too early. Our execution is not there yet against solid teams and we are forcing our young team to be in way too many precarious situations too deep in enemy territory. Control the ball early. Single most important goal of the O needs to be securing positive yards on First Down. This will help alleviate the third and longs)
 
#44
#44
Yep our
Hank Bukowski said:
Honestly, I’ve asked the same questions. My only guess is that we hope to catch the defense off-guard and bust one long enough to move the chains…as unlikely as that may seem given the odds. Now I wanna go look up our stats on 3rd down conversion…


Edit: We are 35th among FBS teams in 3rd down conversion.

View attachment 690252
Click to expand...
Yep, our winning TD was on 3rd and long to Brazziel in the endzone.
 
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#45
#45
This team runs the ball better than they do anything and our tackles struggle with pass protection. The defense needs to respect the run in any situation or we are doomed. That's why running the ball on third down needs to be in the mix.
 
#46
#46
I don’t think he wants to put his inexperienced and somewhat shaky young QB in an obvious blitzing situation where he has a better chance to turn the ball over.

Like many have stated, concede the possession and ride the defense.
 
#47
#47
Volador said:
Aaaahhhh, you ask a great question Grasshopper. The REAL question that needs to be answered is why are we in 3rd and long waaaaay too often??

(hint: look at our play calling on first down in the Arky, FL and Bama games, esp in the first half. Coaches are trying to win the game way too early. Our execution is not there yet against solid teams and we are forcing our young team to be in way too many precarious situations too deep in enemy territory. Control the ball early. Single most important goal of the O needs to be securing positive yards on First Down. This will help alleviate the third and longs)
Click to expand...

if we had executed on the called plays we beat Arkansas and the Florida game never gets close to an overtime. Its lack of execution that is the biggest issue in these first half shutouts. The plays have been there. The execution has not. Haven't reviewed the Bama game to that detail yet but I suspect I will see the same thing again.

Changing the play calls won't be anymore successful if the players still fail to execute IMO
 
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#48
#48
I think he'd be more willing to take risks like he did in the past if our defense wasn't elite. Our defense hasn't allowed more than 19 points all season, so I think he's willing to take the risk of letting the defense do their thing and get the ball back in better field position.
 
#50
#50
LWSVOL said:
third down plays versus Alabama. Really not many that you describe but lot of passes on third downs

1st quarter
3 /7 Pass complete to McCoy 1st down
3/10 Pass incomplete - Punt
3/13 Pass Incomplete PI on Bama
3/9 Pass complete but short of 1st down- Missed FG

2nd quarter
3/9 Moore pass intercepted
3/7 pass incomplete miss FG on 4th down

3rd quarter
3/4 complete pass 1st down
3/20 Nico rushed 9 yards 4th down
3/6 Nico pass complete 1st down

4th quarter
3/2 Bishop runs 1st down
3/1 Bishop runs 1st down
3/10 Bishop runs 18 yards called back for penalty
3/5 Bishop for 1 yard 4th down
3/5 incomplete pass penalty on Bama 1st down
3/7 complete pass short punt
3/4 Sampson for 2 yds kick FG
Click to expand...

Cmon, you should know that facts take a backseat to the delusional narrative of the cannivols.
 
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