Russia brings the fight to ISIS in Syria!!!

#1,001
#1,001
volprof said:
Russia wants to solve this problem just as much as we do, which is to say: very little. Instability in Syria distracts the US, distracts the Russian domestic audience, keeps oil prices from falling completely off the cliff, and keeps Russian interests (like no Gulf pipeline) in place. Plus, much like us, they want to wait around for someone else to actually defeat ISIS and other jihadists, while making only token attempts at combating them.
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I was just poking Ras and Pacer. I wanted to hear their excuses. which i am sure in turn lead to blaming the US, without answering my question.
 
#1,002
#1,002
LouderVol said:
I was just poking Ras and Pacer. I wanted to hear their excuses. which i am sure in turn lead to blaming the US, without answering my question.
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Yeah, I know. I just get so few opportunities to actually discuss such things in my private life (no one is ever interested in international relations) that I have to take every opportunity to pontificate.
 
#1,003
#1,003
An Exasperated John Kerry Throws In Towel On Syria: "What Do You Want Me To Do, Go To War With The Russians?!"

No media bias here...

“Russian and Syrian forces intensified their campaign on rebel-held areas around Aleppo that are still home to around 350,000 people and aid workers have said the city - Syria's largest before the war - could soon fall.”
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Can you spot what’s wrong with that quote, from a Reuters piece out today? Here’s the problem: “could soon fall” implies that Aleppo is on the verge of succumbing to enemy forces. It’s not. It’s already in enemy hands and has been for quite some time. What Reuters should have said is this: “...could soon be liberated.”
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“‘What do you want me to do? Go to war with Russia? Is that what you want?’” the aid worker said Kerry told her.
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Putin.png
 
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#1,008
#1,008
that Russia still hasn't won despite assurances that it would be an easy bloodless victory and ISIS refusing to even stand up to the Russian military? because yes I agree. what you and Ras were professing hasn't happened, and maybe you are starting to realize how much of a quagmire the situation is. We were assured the only reason ISIS existed in Syria at all is because of our lack will to truly go after them, and yet when Russia brings their torches and pitchforks they still haven't driven out the monster as fast as was promised.
 
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#1,009
#1,009
LouderVol said:
that Russia still hasn't won despite assurances that it would be an easy bloodless victory and ISIS refusing to even stand up to the Russian military? because yes I agree. what you and Ras were professing hasn't happened, and maybe you are starting to realize how much of a quagmire the situation is. We were assured the only reason ISIS existed in Syria at all is because of our lack will to truly go after them, and yet when Russia brings their torches and pitchforks they still haven't driven out the monster as fast as was promised.
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Nobody promised a quick solution. The US had been supposedly bombing for over a year and ISIS was getting stronger. Russia comes in and is actually making headway in eradicating these psychos that are still being sponsored by our government, amongst others, but it's not quick enough for you? Sounds like sour grapes to me...
 
#1,010
#1,010
Pacer92 said:
Nobody promised a quick solution. The US had been supposedly bombing for over a year and ISIS was getting stronger. Russia comes in and is actually making headway in eradicating these psychos that are still being sponsored by our government, amongst others, but it's not quick enough for you? Sounds like sour grapes to me...
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I've got news for you, Russia's air campaign is doing little to stop ISIS. Air campaigns without ground campaigns are little more than light shows. If Putin, or anybody, was serious about stopping ISIS, the buildup of men and materiel would resemble that of the buildup to Desert Storm in 1990-91 or the Allied invasion of Europe in WWII.
 
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#1,011
#1,011
MG1968 said:
I've got news for you, Russia's air campaign is doing little to stop ISIS. Air campaigns without ground campaigns are little more than light shows. If Putin, or anybody, was serious about stopping ISIS, the buildup of men and materiel would resemble that of the buildup to Desert Storm in 1990-91 or the Allied invasion of Europe in WWII.
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That is news to me! That it would take an invasion force resembling the Allies in Europe? Not sure if serious?

And there is a ground campaign....the Syrian army is slowly, but surely, making enough headway now, that Turkey and Saudi Arabia are chomping at the bit to invade Syria...
 
#1,012
#1,012
Pacer92 said:
That is news to me! That it would take an invasion force resembling the Allies in Europe? Not sure if serious?

And there is a ground campaign....the Syrian army is slowly, but surely, making enough headway now, that Turkey and Saudi Arabia are chomping at the bit to invade Syria...
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You don't defeat a diffused enemy like ISIS with token bombing campaigns and a company or two of old T62 tanks manned by poorly trained conscripts.

Russia should have learned that lesson after their fiasco in Afghanistan.
 
#1,013
#1,013
Pacer92 said:
Nobody promised a quick solution. The US had been supposedly bombing for over a year and ISIS was getting stronger. Russia comes in and is actually making headway in eradicating these psychos that are still being sponsored by our government, amongst others, but it's not quick enough for you? Sounds like sour grapes to me...
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NO. that is exactly what we heard from you and your sources. Russia is seeming the same results America had. improvement where they are bombing, growth in the areas they aren't. and they aren't "eradicating" them. they are relocating them, same compliant about what America was doing. the only difference is Russia has Syria to go in and occupy the recently bombed areas, so it looks like the are achieving something, when its nothing more that what we have been doing.
 
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#1,014
#1,014
MG1968 said:
You don't defeat a diffused enemy like ISIS with token bombing campaigns and a company or two of old T62 tanks manned by poorly trained conscripts.

Russia should have learned that lesson after their fiasco in Afghanistan.
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Maybe so, but how is that different than what we were doing? We were aiding terrorists....Russia is aiding the Syrian govt.

I think Russia and the US have learned hard lessons from their failures. Neither are going to sacrifice unlimited lives for regime change. Make no mistake, we are at war with Russia and Russia with us. This is only the beginning imo...
 
#1,015
#1,015
Pacer92 said:
How Is a multi coalition of countries, led by the US and Israel, doing? That's really the only question that needs to be asked..

A multitude of countries could wipe IS and their ideology off the map within weeks, if not for interference..
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Bump, I realize Russia isn't a "multitude" so I will give them more than "weeks" but we haven't seen any noticeable change in months.
 
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#1,016
#1,016
LouderVol said:
NO. that is exactly what we heard from you and your sources. Russia is seeming the same results America had. improvement where they are bombing, growth in the areas they aren't. and they aren't "eradicating" them. they are relocating them, same compliant about what America was doing. the only difference is Russia has Syria to go in and occupy the recently bombed areas, so it looks like the are achieving something, when its nothing more that what we have been doing.
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Russia is bombing ISIS. America wasn't. Its that simple.

There is no comparison...
 
#1,020
#1,020
Pacer92 said:
Bump all you want, but you make my point precisely...
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so our interference is great enough to overcome Russian military gains? US CIA > Syrian Military w/ Russian Support? Trying to get your story right so I know what to pick apart next.
 
#1,022
#1,022
Syria will look the same as it does today in five years, in ten years, in fifty years, if people don't finally get serious about the reality of the situation: Syria is dead, and no amount of king's men and horses is going to put it back together again.

It may not please some people, and it will not be easy, but it's past time the international community started having a serious conversation about how to end this war, instead of having its utopianistic unicorn fantasy talks about preserving a "unified Syria." Fact of the matter is that Syria was never a coherent country and was never going to be: it's a mere political fabrication, borne out of European colonialism, and with no geographical or ethnic coherence.

If Syrians and the international community truly ever want to get rid of the jihadists in their midst and have "normal" lives ever again, the different "rational" factions (and that includes Assad - even though he is no better than ISIS, he is at least rational and can be negotiated with) need to come together to form a broader coalition with the stipulation that separate political borders will be established after the jihadist (non-rational and non-negotating actors) threat is eliminated. In this case, Syria will become a confederation of autonomous states that are really only aligned through military cooperation.

It's "Syria's" best chance, and it will get nothing better, whether or not the US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Gulf States, Iraq, Europe, et al. agree.
 
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#1,023
#1,023
volprof said:
Syria will look the same as it does today in five years, in ten years, in fifty years, if people don't finally get serious about the reality of the situation: Syria is dead, and no amount of king's men and horses is going to put it back together again.

It may not please some people, and it will not be easy, but it's past time the international community started having a serious conversation about how to end this war, instead of having its utopianistic unicorn fantasy talks about preserving a "unified Syria." Fact of the matter is that Syria was never a coherent country and was never going to be: it's a mere political fabrication, borne out of European colonialism, and with no geographical or ethnic coherence.

If Syrians and the international community truly ever want to get rid of the jihadists in their midst and have "normal" lives ever again, the different "rational" factions (and that includes Assad - even though he is no better than ISIS, he is at least rational and can be negotiated with) need to come together to form a broader coalition with the stipulation that separate political borders will be established after the jihadist (non-rational and non-negotating actors) threat is eliminated. In this case, Syria will become a confederation of autonomous states that are really only aligned through military cooperation.

It's "Syria's" best chance, and it will get nothing better, whether or not the US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Gulf States, Iraq, Europe, et al. agree.
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I agree that Syria is dead, a wasteland, that will never be the same. The powers that be have made the decision that Syria is the battleground of the 21st century. I see no peace in the future there..

Often times I've watched my son play the modern warfare games on Xbox. There is a map, and I'm not positive of the name, but I'll guess Karalichi?? It looks the part of a war torn ME city and oddly enough it's the US special forces fighting the Spetsnaz. Lol

Its incredibly realistic and I hope it's not the end result in Syria. It may already be happening tho...
 
#1,024
#1,024
MG1968 said:
You don't defeat a diffused enemy like ISIS with token bombing campaigns and a company or two of old T62 tanks manned by poorly trained conscripts.

Russia should have learned that lesson after their fiasco in Afghanistan.
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Token bombing campaigns?? Really? The Russians at the very least were bombing the oil caravans that were flooding into Turkey... meanwhile, the US was sitting on targets until after the Paris attacks in November and ended up conveniently turning those targets over to the French.

If the US had these targets in their coat pockets, why weren't they bombing them?
 
#1,025
#1,025
MG1968 said:
I've got news for you, Russia's air campaign is doing little to stop ISIS. Air campaigns without ground campaigns are little more than light shows. If Putin, or anybody, was serious about stopping ISIS, the buildup of men and materiel would resemble that of the buildup to Desert Storm in 1990-91 or the Allied invasion of Europe in WWII.
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When you say "or anybody" that has to include the US as well.

Do you think we should get serious about stopping ISIS?
 
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