Russian Propaganda About Ukraine

#2
#2
Vol Main said:
The West fears Russia is about to attack Ukraine. But that's not the way Russians are seeing it on TV
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Pretty fair assessment. Show me the lie.

Welcome to Russia's mirror-image depiction of the showdown over Ukraine. In the country's alternate media landscape, NATO forces are carrying out a plan that's been in the works for years: Encircle Russia, topple President Vladimir Putin and seize control of Russia's energy resources.

In Moscow's view, repeated in nearly every newscast and talk show, Ukraine is a failed state entirely controlled by the "puppet master" -- the United States. Europe is a weak and divided collection of lap dogs taking orders from Washington. Even the US, as frighteningly threatening as it is, is weak and divided too, torn apart by political division and racial unrest.
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#4
#4
The ironic thing is that Historically, Ukraine is the true source of Russian culture much more so than Russia proper. Kiev was the seat of the Eastern Orthodox Church and Russian scholarship and language when Moscow was just a collection of trader huts on a muddy riverbank. Muscovy remained a backwards fiefdom of the Mongols for centruries more while “Little Russia” kept the flames of Slavic civilization burning.
 
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#5
#5
OrangeTsar said:
The ironic thing is that Historically, Ukraine is the true source of Russian culture much more so than Russia proper. Kiev was the seat of the Eastern Orthodox Church and Russian scholarship and language when Moscow was just a collection of trader huts on a muddy riverbank. Muscovy remained a backwards fiefdom of the Mongols for centruries more while “Little Russia” kept the flames of Slavic civilization burning.
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OK.
 
#6
#6
Rasputin_Vol said:
Pretty fair assessment. Show me the lie.
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I'd say Russian media overplays how weak and divided the United States is, because it tells their audience what they want to hear. It's like UT media reporting juicy nuggets about internal friction within the Alabama program, and how they are on the verge of a downfall. There are elements of truth in it, but they are exaggerated. Just like I'd say our media exaggerates and overestimates the influence of someone like Alexei Navalny and other Russian dissidents. I've read multiple places that outside of young, affluent elite circles in Moscow, most Russians see him as a rabble-rouser and aren't really fans of him. He isn't really viewed as some kind of courageous hero within Russia.

The rest of the stuff about NATO coming closer to them, Europe is divided and the US tells them what to do, etc., is pretty much accurate.
 
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#7
#7
05_never_again said:
I'd say Russian media overplays how weak and divided the United States is, because it tells their audience what they want to hear. It's like UT media reporting juicy nuggets about internal friction within the Alabama program, and how they are on the verge of a downfall. There are elements of truth in it, but they are exaggerated. Just like I'd say our media exaggerates and overestimates the influence of someone like Alexei Navalny and other Russian dissidents. I've read multiple places that outside of young, affluent elite circles in Moscow, most Russians see him as a rabble-rouser and aren't really fans of him. He isn't really viewed as some kind of courageous hero within Russia.

The rest of the stuff about NATO coming closer to them, Europe is divided and the US tells them what to do, etc., is pretty much accurate.
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He's an Ivy League globalist.
 
#9
#9
Rasputin_Vol said:
Pretty fair assessment. Show me the lie.
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If you think that Ukraine is a failed state entirely controlled by the United States, you must not be keeping up with reports from Ukraine, including direct quotes from leaders of that country's government. Surely you know that the Russian propaganda about Ukraine more accurately describes Putin's influence over Belarus, whose leader is a total suck-up to Putin and almost entirely dependent on him. Putin is the real puppet master. Ukraine is far more independent and has publicly stated that it will not accept U.S. or NATO concessions to Russia.

As for Europe being weak and divided, the last time I looked, the GDP of the EU was larger than that of the U.S. and far larger than that of Russia. Europe is more unified than it has ever been, with governing bodies of representatives from most democratic states of the continent. In support of its core mission, mutual defense, NATO stands highly united. Such unity derives support from freedom of the many states to represent their interests and points of view. BTW, before declaring war on the U.S. in 1941, Adolf Hitler spoke contemptuously of the U.S.A. as weakened by internal divisions, and we know how that turned out. One goal of anti-U.S. propaganda from Russia is to weaken our country by inciting political divisions. Our own counter-intelligence reports clearly state that right wing media and politicians repeat the Russian propaganda. In effect if not in fact, they and you are working for the military intelligence of Russia.

encircle
[inˈsərk(ə)l, enˈsərk(ə)l] VERB
  1. form a circle around; surround


    Kindly tell us how NATO encircles Russia when the borders of all combined nations approach only a small fraction of Russia's borders. You cannot, because it does not. Hence, the Russian propaganda is not accurate.
  2. map-ukraine-russia.jpg
 
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#10
#10
Are there 175,000 Russian troops on the border or not? Have they been building their forces up over the last several months? My news says yes, what say you? and if you have other info who do I believe? I can't voice my opinion accurately if I don't have facts, nor I do not know where to put my tax dollar munitions.
 
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#11
#11
Vol Main said:
If you think that Ukraine is a failed state entirely controlled by the United States, you must not be keeping up with reports from Ukraine, including direct quotes from leaders of that country's government. Surely you know that the Russian propaganda about Ukraine more accurately describes Belarus, whose leader is a total suck-up to Putin and almost entirely dependent on him. Putin is the real puppet master. Ukraine is far more independent and has publicly stated that it will not accept U.S. or NATO concessions to Russia.

As for Europe being weak and divided, the last time I looked, the GDP of the EU was larger than that of the U.S. and far larger than that of Russia. Europe is more unified than it has ever been, with governing bodies of representatives from most democratic states of the continent. In support of its core mission, mutual defense, NATO stands highly united. Such unity derives support from freedom of the many states to represent their interests and points of view. BTW, before declaring war on the U.S. in 1941, Adolf Hitler spoke contemptuously of the U.S.A. as weakened by internal divisions, and we know how that turned out. One goal of anti-U.S. propaganda from Russia is to weaken our country by inciting political divisions, and we know from counter-intelligence reports that right wing media and politicians repeat the Russian propaganda. In effect if not in fact, they and you are working for the military intelligence of Russia.

encircle
[inˈsərk(ə)l, enˈsərk(ə)l] VERB
  1. form a circle around; surround


    Kindly tell us how NATO encircles Russia when the borders of all combined nations approach only a small fraction of Russia's borders. You cannot, because it does not. Hence, the Russian propaganda is not accurate.
  2. map-ukraine-russia.jpg
Click to expand...
Putin saying he "encircled" by NATO is an exaggeration, just like them talking about the US's internal divisions. It is true that NATO has certainly moved closer to, or even right up to, his western border over the years, and invading Russia from the west via the European Plain is the classic invasion route used many times over the years.

I do somewhat disagree with you about Europe and NATO being strongly united. There is evidently considerable discussion internally within NATO about what exactly to do if Putin invades Ukraine. You also have Germany, the strongest economy in NATO other than the US, that is very much a fence-sitter when it comes to all matters involving Russia because of their reliance on natural gas from Russia. But yes, the economic engines of the EU and NATO are superior to Russia, no doubt.

The Russian propaganda, like most propaganda, has elements of truth. Our own propaganda (yes, it is propaganda) has elements of truth.
 
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#12
#12
05_never_again said:
I think he's more controlled opposition, honestly. But who knows.
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Alexei Navalny - Wikipedia

In June 2020, he spoke out in support of the Black Lives Matter protests against racism.
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Navalny was a World Fellow at Yale University's World Fellows Program, aimed at "creating a global network of emerging leaders and to broaden international understanding" in 2010.

In 2011, Foreign Policy magazine named Navalny to the FP Top 100 Global Thinkers, along with Daniel Domscheit-Berg and Sami Ben Gharbia of Tunisia, for "shaping the new world of government transparency". FP picked him again in 2012. He was listed by Time magazine in 2012 as one of the world's 100 most influential people, the only Russian on the list. In 2013, Navalny came in at No. 48 among "world thinkers" in an online poll by the UK magazine Prospect.
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Navalny getting praise from the Council of Foreign Affairs' mouthpiece "Foreign Policy" on two occasions, co-signing BLM and getting trained at Yale on how to most likely engage in subversive activities and colour revolutions looks bad on the resume.
 
#13
#13
Rasputin_Vol said:
Alexei Navalny - Wikipedia





Navalny getting praise from the Council of Foreign Affairs' mouthpiece "Foreign Policy" on two occasions and getting trained at Yale on how to most likely engage in subversive activities and colour revolutions looks bad on the resume.
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He's also in tight with Anatoly Sobchak's daughter, who herself is almost certainly controlled oppo given her family background. Navalny has the resume/credentials of a genuine member of the opposition, but you'd expect that. Controlled oppo isn't effective if everybody knows it is controlled.
 
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#14
#14
Vol Main said:
If you think that Ukraine is a failed state entirely controlled by the United States, you must not be keeping up with reports from Ukraine, including direct quotes from leaders of that country's government. Surely you know that the Russian propaganda about Ukraine more accurately describes Putin's influence over Belarus, whose leader is a total suck-up to Putin and almost entirely dependent on him. Putin is the real puppet master. Ukraine is far more independent and has publicly stated that it will not accept U.S. or NATO concessions to Russia.

As for Europe being weak and divided, the last time I looked, the GDP of the EU was larger than that of the U.S. and far larger than that of Russia. Europe is more unified than it has ever been, with governing bodies of representatives from most democratic states of the continent. In support of its core mission, mutual defense, NATO stands highly united. Such unity derives support from freedom of the many states to represent their interests and points of view. BTW, before declaring war on the U.S. in 1941, Adolf Hitler spoke contemptuously of the U.S.A. as weakened by internal divisions, and we know how that turned out. One goal of anti-U.S. propaganda from Russia is to weaken our country by inciting political divisions. Our own counter-intelligence reports clearly state that right wing media and politicians repeat the Russian propaganda. In effect if not in fact, they and you are working for the military intelligence of Russia.

encircle
[inˈsərk(ə)l, enˈsərk(ə)l] VERB
  1. form a circle around; surround


    Kindly tell us how NATO encircles Russia when the borders of all combined nations approach only a small fraction of Russia's borders. You cannot, because it does not. Hence, the Russian propaganda is not accurate.
  2. map-ukraine-russia.jpg
Click to expand...

Second time I have seen that map. Makes me chuckle every time I think of Ras typing about Russia .
 
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#15
#15
05_never_again said:
Putin saying he "encircled" by NATO is an exaggeration, just like them talking about the US's internal divisions. It is true that NATO has certainly moved closer to, or even right up to, his western border over the years, and invading Russia from the west via the European Plain is the classic invasion route used many times over the years.

I do somewhat disagree with you about Europe and NATO being strongly united. There is evidently considerable discussion internally within NATO about what exactly to do if Putin invades Ukraine. You also have Germany, the strongest economy in NATO other than the US, that is very much a fence-sitter when it comes to all matters involving Russia because of their reliance on natural gas from Russia. But yes, the economic engines of the EU and NATO are superior to Russia, no doubt.

The Russian propaganda, like most propaganda, has elements of truth. Our own propaganda (yes, it is propaganda) has elements of truth.
Click to expand...

I claimed that NATO was strongly united in support of its core mission, which is the joint defense of all NATO nations against military aggression directed at any of its members. Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so I do not see Germany's reluctance to defend Ukraine as being a weakness toward the core mission of NATO.
 
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#17
#17
85SugarVol said:
The Blue & Red color coded one is even more striking.
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Yes, and that was my reason for posting the first map; it was more striking. But I found the position of Belarus to be questionable, probably incorrect. I did not want the point of the post to be weakened by questions about technical inaccuracy.
 
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#18
#18
Vol Main said:
I claimed that NATO was strongly united in support of its core mission, which is the joint defense of all NATO nations against military aggression directed at any of its members. Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so I do not see Germany's reluctance to defend Ukraine as being a weakness toward the core mission of NATO.
Click to expand...
Germany would be reluctant to do anything vis a vis Russia, involving a NATO member or not, because of their dependence on Russian gas. I wouldn't necessarily call the EU or NATO "weak and divided" as Russian media does, but I wouldn't say they are entirely on the same page either. Which you'd expect give you're talking about a political construct/alliance of 27+ countries.
 
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#19
#19
05_never_again said:
The Russian propaganda, like most propaganda, has elements of truth. Our own propaganda (yes, it is propaganda) has elements of truth.
Click to expand...

The difference between Russian propaganda and ours is that Russian media and people know it is propaganda and know to read between the lines - while our media reports the propaganda of this administration increasingly without question and their watchers think that it is hard-hitting reporting,
 
#20
#20
Gandalf said:
The difference between Russian propaganda and ours is that Russian media and people know it is propaganda and know to read between the lines - while our media reports the propaganda of this administration increasingly without question and their watchers think that it is hard-hitting reporting,
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There is also an entirely separate media ecosystem in the United States, apart from the mainstream media, that is super critical of this administration. You have people like Tucker Carlson who, on a major cable TV news channel, says this conflict is all about money for defense contractors. I'm sure there are a ton of Russians that buy their media's propaganda about Putin and the United States, just like there are people who believe all media that confirms their priors here.

On the whole, the number of people who actually watch CNN, MSNBC, etc. is quite low.
 
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#21
#21
05_never_again said:
There is also an entirely separate media ecosystem in the United States, apart from the mainstream media, that is super critical of this administration. The number of people who actually watch CNN, MSNBC, etc. is quite low.
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That is true - but social media amplifies and harmonizes their message - else how would the little apparatchiks sing the same tune? Unbeknownst to them, the MSM's primary job has now been to polish the talking points put out by Psaki so that the tech giants can turn the dial up to 11 in broadcasting them and hiding any dissent from the approved line.
 
#22
#22
Gandalf said:
That is true - but social media amplifies and harmonizes their message - else how would the little apparatchiks sing the same tune? Unbeknownst to them, the MSM's primary job has now been to polish the talking points put out by Psaki so that the tech giants can turn the dial up to 11 in broadcasting them and hiding any dissent from the approved line.
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Of course there are people out there whose job it is to amplify the talking points from the admin. There is also a large number of people (this thread is a perfect example) who will never believe a single word it says and go to alternative media.

The only people watching CNN, MSNBC, or even Fox News are people who already agree with what they say. In this modern media age, I don't think anybody comes to any media source with a blank slate (i.e., not leaning any particular direction) and has their mind changed.
 
#23
#23
By the way @Rasputin_Vol when I say "controlled opposition" about Navalny and Sobchak I mean controlled by Putin. Not the West. Sobchak in particular is almost certainly a pawn controlled by Putin to make it look like he has genuine domestic political opposition.
 
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