Ryan's Budget Proposal - It's a Start

#176
#176
sjt, you are the first conservative in my life I've heard say Dems. are friends of 'big business'.
 
#178
#178
nbakerld said:
I guess you aren't better off when you have more money but there are more toys to buy and you can't help your frivolity.

Microwaves, AC, more affordable cars, better healthcare, affordable long distance phone service, affordable washer/dryer, affordable TV, more affordable food, etc.

I'll find out where my Dad got this "leave it to beaver" statement. He's a Phd Economist and knows his stuff.
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Please do. Because I seem to recall Ms Cleaver having a washing machine and a TV (probably US made), a car, a phone. I remember Dad was always sharply dressed in suit and tie. And I would love to see his numbers on the PPP of the Cleaver family.

Shockingly, shockingly wrong in every regard.
 
#180
#180
nbakerld said:
Interestingly it was cited by my Dad's colleague who is one of the few "socialist" Economists I've encountered. It was a statement made comparing median real income from 1950 to to 2011 poverty.

In 2000 dollars you see that 1950 Median Income was about $23K

http://www.stanford.edu/class/polisci120a/immigration/Median Household Income.pdf
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Well, it's a great graph showing the effects of neoliberalism.

But completely meaningless in the debate we are having.

(PS - not that it really matters, as you need to compare purchasing power, not median income, but interestingly, that 1950 median income was produced by ONE member of the household in the workforce, which also moots the argument you are trying to make).

I have no idea what educational background Ward had either.
 
#181
#181
CSVol said:
sjt, you are the first conservative in my life I've heard say Dems. are friends of 'big business'.
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If you check the facts rather than listening to campaign
rhetoric (democrat myths), you will find that sjt is 110%
correct.

siers0415.jpg
 
#182
#182
gsvol said:
If you check the facts rather than listening to campaign
rhetoric (democrat myths), you will find that sjt is 110%
correct.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I forgot about all those Dems. lining up on Fox News carping about how Obamacare will kill business growth, how EPA is trying to limit business, how taxing corps. kills expansion, etc.
 
#184
#184
We have shown ad infinitum now, gsvol, that Ryan's proposal:

1. Redistributes wealth upwards,
2. Does not address the real problems,
3. Is anti-democratic (i.e. the people want cuts elsewhere)

I don't even think the hard core Republicans on here doubt that anymore. No one has rushed to defend his proposal in quite awhile.
 
#185
#185
utgibbs said:
We have shown ad infinitum now, gsvol, that Ryan's proposal:

1. Redistributes wealth upwards,
2. Does not address the real problems,
3. Is anti-democratic (i.e. the people want cuts elsewhere)

I don't even think the hard core Republicans on here doubt that anymore. No one has rushed to defend his proposal in quite awhile.
Click to expand...

I'm not a hardcore anything, but this was still a load of crap.
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#189
#189
utgibbs said:
We have shown ad infinitum now, gsvol, that Ryan's proposal:

1. Redistributes wealth upwards,
2. Does not address the real problems,
3. Is anti-democratic (i.e. the people want cuts elsewhere)

I don't even think the hard core Republicans on here doubt that anymore. No one has rushed to defend his proposal in quite awhile.
Click to expand...

More of that brilliant logic. Surprised there's no graph showing something over the last 100 years.

The whole notion of redistributing wealth upwards is absurd.
 
#192
#192
utgibbs said:
The real world disagrees, volinbham:

6a00d83452403c69e20120a51b38e1970b-pi
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Ah, there's a chart. Thank goodness.

Here's a hint: think of the meaning of the word "redistribute" in the context of the government.

Next, show me in the Ryan Plan where wealth is being taken from the poor and middle class (taken by the government) and being given to the wealthy.
 
#193
#193
volinbham said:
Ah, there's a chart. Thank goodness.

Here's a hint: think of the meaning of the word "redistribute" in the context of the government.

Next, show me in the Ryan Plan where wealth is being taken from the poor and middle class (taken by the government) and being given to the wealthy.
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1. It cuts taxes on wealth while maintaining income tax brackets. By definition a redistribution of taxes upwards (and continues corporate welfare). The graph simply highlights exactly how this has been trending. Government redistribution has been a major player, and not just in recent memory (see banks and GM et al), but starting with the Reaganomics (i.e. massive Keynesian deficits distributed to private defense contractors).

2. We've all agreed the cuts are "just a start".

3. We have seen from the polling on the "People's Budget" people want the war and defense budgets (the real discretionary spending) cut massively. The Gates proposal doesn't touch the "War" budget and is simply slowing growth of "Defense."
 
#195
#195
utgibbs said:
1. It cuts taxes on wealth while maintaining income tax brackets. By definition a redistribution of taxes upwards (and continues corporate welfare). The graph simply highlights exactly how this has been trending. Government redistribution has been a major player, and not just in recent memory (see banks and GM et al), but starting with the Reaganomics (i.e. massive Keynesian deficits distributed to private defense contractors).

Actually, it cuts corporate welfare so that's just wrong.

More generally, lowering taxes is not redistribution. You are misinformed on the term.

2. We've all agreed the cuts are "just a start".

3. We have seen from the polling on the "People's Budget" people want the war and defense budgets (the real discretionary spending) cut massively. The Gates proposal doesn't touch the "War" budget and is simply slowing growth of "Defense."
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Yes, the "People's Budget" is the answer...
 
#196
#196
wait? you pay twice the taxes as those that make less than you and that doesn't make your richer? impossible.
 
#197
#197
volinbham said:
Yes, the "People's Budget" is the answer...
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1. From what I've seen - far, far more democratic and actually addresses the real spending issues.

That trumps Ryan's proposal big time.

Cutting wealth taxes is major wealth redistribution upwards. What corporate welfare programs is he cutting?
 
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#198
#198
#199
#199
I read through the Peoples' Budget.

A few highlights:

1. Tax increases (payroll) beginning at 107K in income (sorry middle class)
2. Tax all investment income at marginal rates (sorry middle class)
3. Slash military personnel by about 30% across the board (hello unemployment)
4. Massively fund infrastructure (guess those marines can build highways? - of course cost savings from the military get respent on infrastructure but who's counting)
5. No cuts to entitlements - none; actually they grow
6. Large tax increases on the wealthy.

Somehow this results in a balanced budget in the near term! (Not sure how they account for growth assumptions but why concern ourselves with that).
 
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