Ryan's Budget Proposal - It's a Start

[utgibbs]

Americans Divided Over Ryan vs. Obama Deficit Plans

Which ice cream do you prefer: strawberry or caramel swirl?

Both will get all the votes in a poll like that.

But the people might actually prefer chocolate and vanilla.

 

[volinbham]

Which ice cream do you prefer: strawberry or caramel swirl?

Both will get all the votes in a poll like that.

But the people might actually prefer chocolate and vanilla.

Here we go again. This polling data is fundamentally flawed but the polling data you rely on is indicative of the real world right outside your back door.

 

[droski]

Here we go again. This polling data is fundamentally flawed but the polling data you rely on is indicative of the real world right outside your back door.

you aren't seriously arguing that a super majority don't support universal healthcare are you?

 

[utvolpj]

Which ice cream do you prefer: strawberry or caramel swirl?

Both will get all the votes in a poll like that.

But the people might actually prefer chocolate and vanilla.

you can only order what the ice cream parlor offers

 

[utgibbs]

I read through the Peoples' Budget.

A few highlights:

1. Tax increases (payroll) beginning at 107K in income (sorry middle class)
2. Tax all investment income at marginal rates (sorry middle class)
3. Slash military personnel by about 30% across the board (hello unemployment)
4. Massively fund infrastructure (guess those marines can build highways? - of course cost savings from the military get respent on infrastructure but who's counting)
5. No cuts to entitlements - none; actually they grow
6. Large tax increases on the wealthy.

Somehow this results in a balanced budget in the near term! (Not sure how they account for growth assumptions but why concern ourselves with that).

As I said, a far, far more democratic budget that actually addresses the primary issues. Attach single payer health care on the program to rein in spiraling health care costs, and that is a budget which makes big headways into solving the so-called problem.

It actually doesn't affect the middle class and stops the redistribution of wealth upwards.

Far, far better than Ryan's proposal by large margins.

 

[utgibbs]

you can only order what the ice cream parlor offers

Thanks for supporting my points regarding our American "democracy" (sic) :hi:

Our politics is a sham. And the corruption of the citizen could not be more thorough or more complete. The brainwashing has apparently scrubbed away all the grey matter.

This is America, and I could cry (a Black Friday stampede):

 

[utgibbs]

Here we go again. This polling data is fundamentally flawed but the polling data you rely on is indicative of the real world right outside your back door.

Didn't say the poll data is flawed.

Said the poll itself is flawed. And when you look at the polling data (often, the very data you provide, volinbham, which I generally accept without reservation) it is clear the issues a supermajority of Americans want, are not "on the table" in our democracy (sic).

No one wants either Obama or Ryan's budget yet they define the limits of the debate. It's simply brainwashing at its finest. The result? These are our Ayn Randian hero citizens:

 

[kptvol]

So we're all brainwashed, but we all also want exactly what you want. Great logic.

 

[utgibbs]

So we're all brainwashed, but we all also want exactly what you want. Great logic.

You are right, brainwashed is not the right word.

"Resigned to our lack of democracy" is perhaps the better phrase. As utvolpj's post depressingly points out. I think Popper makes the point about this kind of resignation in a population.

Although the Black Friday stampeders have been scrubbed clean.

 

[BeecherVol]

Thanks for supporting my points regarding our American "democracy" (sic) :hi:

Our politics is a sham. And the corruption of the citizen could not be more thorough or more complete. The brainwashing has apparently scrubbed away all the grey matter.

This is America, and I could cry (a Black Friday stampede):

Are you saying government "servants" (as if anyone still believes that is what they really are) are crooked and or looking out for themselves. I agree more government is the solution.

 

[kptvol]

You are right, brainwashed is not the right word.

"Resigned to our lack of democracy" is perhaps the better phrase. As utvolpj's post depressingly points out. I think Popper makes the point about this kind of resignation in a population.

Although the Black Friday stampeders have been scrubbed clean.

So the big problem is a lack of democracy and you've repeatedly offered up Cuba as a model for our future. Sweet deal.

 

[droski]

Are you saying government "servants" (as if anyone still believes that is what they really are) are crooked and or looking out for themselves. I agree more government is the solution.

gibbs is going to find all the honest govt workers to run things. you know the old saying absolute power corrupts never.

 

[utgibbs]

So the big problem is a lack of democracy and you've repeatedly offered up Cuba as a model for our future. Sweet deal.

Incorrect.

I've held up certain aspects of Cuba as a model (health care, organiponicos, diminished conspicuous consumerism, internationalism).

But what you and utvolpj have resigned yourself too is less than Cuba. Just because you put on a new "skin" you're still using Real Player v13.9.1.2. With two right wings, Republicans and Democrats are essentially no different.

And Obama's "kiss and make up" tour with the Wall Street this week spells it out in great detail.

 

[BeecherVol]

gibbs is going to find all the honest govt workers to run things. you know the old saying absolute power corrupts never.

Impossible for those 3 to carry that load.

Sounds like less government is in order to me.

 

[utgibbs]

Impossible for those 3 to care that load.

Sounds like less government is in order to me.

We need new government, new people running the new government, and much less government in many, many sectors (IRS, law enforcement, military, etc). Who has suggested otherwise?

But we need MORE government exactly where government has proven far more efficient than the private sector. And this is where we continue to have LESS government.

 

[BeecherVol]

We need new government, new people running the new government, and much less government in many, many sectors (IRS, law enforcement, military, etc). Who has suggested otherwise?

But we need MORE government exactly where government has proven far more efficient than the private sector. And this is where we continue to have LESS government.

I find absolutely no disagreement here.

But taking the large size of it (with corruption included) and shifting it to other sectors is not gonna change much. Your just gonna put the corruption elsewhere. Less govern't, less people involved, less corruption.

 

[MG1968]

I find absolutely no disagreement here.

But taking the large size of it (with corruption included) and shifting it to other sectors is not gonna change much. Your just gonna put the corruption elsewhere. Less govern't, less people involved, less corruption.

you would if you knew that the people gibbs has in mind are folks like the Castro brothers, Hugo Chavez, Noam Chomsky, and Robert Mugabe.

 

[milohimself]

you would if you knew that the people gibbs has in mind are folks like the Castro brothers, Hugo Chavez, Noam Chomsky, and Robert Mugabe.

This doesn't make sense. You've got a Marxist-Leninist, a socialist, an anarchist and an anti-Marxist nationalist.

I think the four in the same room would be more likely to engage in a four-way knife fight than govern something together.

 

[MG1968]

This doesn't make sense. You've got a Marxist-Leninist, a socialist, an anarchist and an anti-Marxist nationalist.

I think the four in the same room would be more likely to engage in a four-way knife fight than govern something together.

such a meeting should be expedited

 

[BeecherVol]

you would if you knew that the people gibbs has in mind are folks like the Castro brothers, Hugo Chavez, Noam Chomsky, and Robert Mugabe.

Sure.

We agree on the "new" "change" ideas. What.who, and how would be the difference.

 

[kptvol]

But we need MORE government exactly where government has proven far more efficient than the private sector. And this is where we continue to have LESS government.

The government healthcare initiatives we have at the moment have absolutely proven to be the direct opposite of efficient.

 

[MG1968]

The government healthcare initiatives we have at the moment have absolutely proven to be the direct opposite of efficient.

careful, or gibbs will trot out the WHO rankings on you. It doesn't matter that you actually work in the industry, you've obviously been brainwashed by the American Capitalist system and the Ayn Randian zombies.

 

[utgibbs]

I find absolutely no disagreement here.

But taking the large size of it (with corruption included) and shifting it to other sectors is not gonna change much. Your just gonna put the corruption elsewhere. Less govern't, less people involved, less corruption.

It would have been easier for me to say: We need new culture.

Corruption is an endemic part of our current culture. And actually, the fealty to the corrupt corporate cronies is a large part of government corruption. Again, the private sector is far, far more efficient at corruption than the government. Even in our democracy (sic) a mechanism exists to replace Tweedledum with Tweedledee. No such mechanism for the private sector. Ken Lay is never caught in the act, only after the fact.

The sectors I mentioned are by far the largest parts of government. I don't see it as being a one-to-one transition at all, and even if it is, it is moving pieces from less efficient to more efficient areas. It's still win-win.

 

[droski]

Corruption is an endemic part of our current culture.

can you name a govt worldwide devoid of corruption?

 

[utgibbs]

The government healthcare initiatives we have at the moment have absolutely proven to be the direct opposite of efficient.

Because we aren't following the real world models which starkly demonstrate how it is more efficient. Even though that's what the supermajority want. It's not even on the table in our democracy (sic).

Again, an area of our democracy (sic) less than Castro's Cuba.