Saban Interview

[Delmar]

A lot of the old guard like Saban, Coach K, and Roy Williams probably don't want to deal with restocking their rosters every season and the NIL angle.

Yep. I can see guys like Tom Izzo and even Dabo Sweeney hanging it up. Dabo has already made it pretty clear that he hates the new era.

 

[volfan102455]

What he is saying is true. While no doubt there has always been under the table money - it is out in the open and ALL that anyone talks or thinks about. There is no loyalty. There is no thought about being part of or supporting a team.

All of you that are fine with it - will be fine with it - until it is benefiting some other team and UT can't keep up and the losses start coming, and that will happen. And when last year's star UT player at another school leads a victory against UT - I know you will blame the university, the administration, the boosters for not giving enough money when in reality it is the culture where players think the world owes them something even before they have earned it.

 

[volfan102455]

I agree. The portal is the antithesis of what coaches are all about. Organization. There isn’t a coach in major football, at a least a decent one who isn’t obsessed w/ organization. You used to recruit a guy and know that he’s quarterback of the future and I have him for at least 3 years, maybe 4 or 5. Now, it’s impossible to plan your roster given the transfer rules. Something will have to change, and it will probably something landmark that is needed to keep guys on campus .

Agree this will lead to coaches leaving or getting fired because they can't win year after year. Many teams will be one injury or two from a potential great year becoming a bad year. Coaches will be blamed. The players will be blamed. Lack of money to pay the players to stay will be blamed. Fans will be blamed.

Many on here want UT to rise back to their glory days. But this isn't the past where you can build up a roster and plan for the future - it will become a one-year plan and how to quickly find replacements on the portal as a coach watches the players they have coached up move somewhere else.

I don't know how anyone can think this is good for UT with no guarantee that progress from one year will carry into the next year and the next year.

 

[#1fulmerite]

So you just dislike the market economic theory?

What's MAKING these markets go crazy is demand and supply. It's not crazy. It's a system and a much better one than govt having their hands on it.

Mutual funds have a tremendous amount to do with that.

 

[VolTull]

A lot of the old guard like Saban, Coach K, and Roy Williams probably don't want to deal with restocking their rosters every season and the NIL angle.

May be, ultimately, be the death knell for older coaches.

 

[ptcarter]

IMO, having to pay guys above the table doesn't stress him (and other coaches) out.

What really stresses them out is the Portal. The real sea change in the sport is guys being able to leave and play immediately. Really has equalized the balance of power between the players and coaches/schools. They have so much more leverage now than they used to.

If Saban was Heupel's age, he'd have to adapt. From Saban's prism, he has done precisely as he described. Pull in 5 stars, mold them (like Doug Mathews calls them "soakers") for a redshirt year and they finally get to play as a junior.

Two things happened before the portal came into being. First, there are many very good football players that never saw the field and walked away with a degree from Alabama. Maybe they got a "participation trophy ring" for a natty, but for all practical purposes, they got to be on the sideline like a waterboy. Those guys were trapped. Secondly, most of those guys wouldn't pan out in the NFL, so the experience of college football - actually playing the game - was lost on some good players, and good players want to play. Water seeks it's level and good players want to play - sit the bench at Bama or be the hero at Vandy?

Saban like a hoarder for 4 stars and he can't do that now. I think guardrails need to be on the transfer portal, it is difficult water to navigate and that's going to be tricky. Put a limit on how many times a player can transfer and now you have anti-trust lawsuits hitting you. There isn't a clean answer. Saban is too old to adapt, and I honestly thing the prospect of him losing 4 or more games next year and getting the heat from a spoiled fanbase is not the way he wanted to go out.

It can get ugly for a coach that has won natty's. Yes the repuations get tarnished. Look at the coaches that won natty's that got fired. At Bama, it was Stallings. Les Miles, Fulmer, Chizick and probably others. Can't win today's games on yesterday's home runs my Dad used to say.

Honestly listening to the Bama podcasts and forums - they still have a lot of that hoarded talent, but there is a good chance they won't have a stellar season (by Bama standards) next season 2024, and the parity that has brought to college football is, for now, a good thing. A Bama fanbase meltdown will be glorious to watch, like after Stallings got fired. Seven years or more in the wilderness then and it was good.

Bottom line, Saban is too old to adapt and he's a control freak and he can't control any more.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

If Saban was Heupel's age, he'd have to adapt. From Saban's prism, he has done precisely as he described. Pull in 5 stars, mold them (like Doug Mathews calls them "soakers") for a redshirt year and they finally get to play as a junior.

Two things happened before the portal came into being. First, there are many very good football players that never saw the field and walked away with a degree from Alabama. Maybe they got a "participation trophy ring" for a natty, but for all practical purposes, they got to be on the sideline like a waterboy. Those guys were trapped. Secondly, most of those guys wouldn't pan out in the NFL, so the experience of college football - actually playing the game - was lost on some good players, and good players want to play. Water seeks it's level and good players want to play - sit the bench at Bama or be the hero at Vandy?

Saban like a hoarder for 4 stars and he can't do that now. I think guardrails need to be on the transfer portal, it is difficult water to navigate and that's going to be tricky. Put a limit on how many times a player can transfer and now you have anti-trust lawsuits hitting you. There isn't a clean answer. Saban is too old to adapt, and I honestly thing the prospect of him losing 4 or more games next year and getting the heat from a spoiled fanbase is not the way he wanted to go out.

It can get ugly for a coach that has won natty's. Yes the repuations get tarnished. Look at the coaches that won natty's that got fired. At Bama, it was Stallings. Les Miles, Fulmer, Chizick and probably others. Can't win today's games on yesterday's home runs my Dad used to say.

Honestly listening to the Bama podcasts and forums - they still have a lot of that hoarded talent, but there is a good chance they won't have a stellar season (by Bama standards) next season 2024, and the parity that has brought to college football is, for now, a good thing. A Bama fanbase meltdown will be glorious to watch, like after Stallings got fired. Seven years or more in the wilderness then and it was good.

Bottom line, Saban is too old to adapt and he's a control freak and he can't control any more.

You can only put limits like transfer maximums on players if you put those same limits on regular students otherwise you can’t do it. It won’t stand up in court. Every time someone throws out a fix they need to ask themselves if that requirement can be put in place for normal students.

The answer to these type things is for NCAA to fully embrace free market contracts and open market bidding then allow for the Collective(schools) to put year requirements in contract.

 

[volfan102455]

You can only put limits like transfer maximums on players if you put those same limits on regular students otherwise you can’t do it. It won’t stand up in court. Every time someone throws out a fix they need to ask themselves if that requirement can be put in place for normal students.

The answer to these type things is for NCAA to fully embrace free market contracts and open market bidding then allow for the Collective(schools) to put year requirements in contract.

Normal students generally are not getting their education completely paid for, free advertisement of their skills in front of millions on a Saturday, free tutoring, and NIL contracts just to name a few.

If you want to treat them like normal students, then do so - no payment to participate in anything related to the university- they pay for their education. They pay to attend sporting events. They pay for food, lodging, travel, gear they use, etc.

 

[volfan102455]

May be, ultimately, be the death knell for older coaches.

Actually, it is going to be the death knell for college football as we all know it.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Agree this will lead to coaches leaving or getting fired because they can't win year after year. Many teams will be one injury or two from a potential great year becoming a bad year. Coaches will be blamed. The players will be blamed. Lack of money to pay the players to stay will be blamed. Fans will be blamed.

Many on here want UT to rise back to their glory days. But this isn't the past where you can build up a roster and plan for the future - it will become a one-year plan and how to quickly find replacements on the portal as a coach watches the players they have coached up move somewhere else.

I don't know how anyone can think this is good for UT with no guarantee that progress from one year will carry into the next year and the next year.

If the football program is successful at the elite level and NIL is solid, athletes will stay with the program.

 

[wmcovol]

Yep. I can see guys like Tom Izzo and even Dabo Sweeney hanging it up. Dabo has already made it pretty clear that he hates the new era.

Izzo is close to 70 if not already. It’s close to his time even if it weren’t changing.

SEC going forward is going to be tougher than it has been much of Saban’s time. Ga has their best coach now than anytime during Saban’s Bama career. So does LSU, Auburn, OM & Tennessee, all schools Bama will play & recruit against regularly. Add Tx & OU to the schedule & it’s a different world. I’m not saying that’s why Saban left but Deboer has a much tougher job.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Normal students generally are not getting their education completely paid for, free advertisement of their skills in front of millions on a Saturday, free tutoring, and NIL contracts just to name a few.

If you want to treat them like normal students, then do so - no payment to participate in anything related to the university- they pay for their education. They pay to attend sporting events. They pay for food, lodging, travel, gear they use, etc.

There's no requirement that the school offer athletic scholarships. The schools do it to be competitive.

If you want to watch the quality of athlete you typically find at schools which don't offer athletic scholarships, there's plenty of schools out there.

You'd whine all day if UT had that level of talent. The talent is worth the scholarship. I'm sorry you hate people putting in hard work, developing God given talent, and making themselves valuable to a team.

 

[volfan102455]

There's no requirement that the school offer athletic scholarships. The schools do it to be competitive.

If you want to watch the quality of athlete you typically find at schools which don't offer athletic scholarships, there's plenty of schools out there.

You'd whine all day if UT had that level of talent. The talent is worth the scholarship. I'm sorry you hate people putting in hard work, developing God given talent, and making themselves valuable to a team.

That wasn't the point of the post - I do get tired of those that push the fact that these student athletes get NOTHING of value. That is not true and never has been. The cost of the education, the advertising of their talent on the field, the training - it all has money spent on them.

I have no problem with scholarships - it is the lack of appreciation for that I have a problem with. How do I as a donor reconcile this need for NIL with the letters and messages of appreciation from student athletes that say thanks for giving them the opportunity for an education and encouraging me to continue to donate so they will have the educational opportunities.

 

[Godfatha]

First of all, Burton acted like a clown for most of his time at Bama and Saban kept playing him... so he shouldn't act like he was disappointed in how they acted.

Second of all, hypocritical for a $10+ per year coach to whine about paying players.

Third of all, does he expect the keep stacking 5 start class after 5 star class and the guys riding the bench are okay with not playing for years.

Fourthly, he bragged about BY's NIL deal. Now that everyone is doing it he isn't ok with it?

Fifthly, he complains about the portal but used it to bring it guys like Gibbs, Burton, and others.

He's a hypocrite. He doesn't care about the state of the game as much as what was good for Nick Saban.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

That wasn't the point of the post - I do get tired of those that push the fact that these student athletes get NOTHING of value. That is not true and never has been. The cost of the education, the advertising of their talent on the field, the training - it all has money spent on them.

I have no problem with scholarships - it is the lack of appreciation for that I have a problem with. How do I as a donor reconcile this need for NIL with the letters and messages of appreciation from student athletes that say thanks for giving them the opportunity for an education and encouraging me to continue to donate so they will have the educational opportunities.

What YOUR problem is is that you won't acknowledge that the SCHOOLS offer and have offered for decades money to athletes to improve their teams.

Now, when it's in the open, you want to blame the players because it's OFFERED to them. Since when is it the fault of the person being OFFERED money?

It's a market. They're worth more to the teams than NO MATTER HOW MUCH THE SCHOLARSHIP IS WORTH. Get over it, already. Players have been paid for longer than you've probably been alive BECAUSE the scholarship wasn't equal to their worth to the program.

You're mad about the reality of the market economy system. Get over it.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Normal students generally are not getting their education completely paid for, free advertisement of their skills in front of millions on a Saturday, free tutoring, and NIL contracts just to name a few.

If you want to treat them like normal students, then do so - no payment to participate in anything related to the university- they pay for their education. They pay to attend sporting events. They pay for food, lodging, travel, gear they use, etc.

Tell the courts the difference, they don’t seem to care. They are the ones saying they have to be treated the same with things like transfers…

 

[butchna]

What he is saying is true. While no doubt there has always been under the table money - it is out in the open and ALL that anyone talks or thinks about. There is no loyalty. There is no thought about being part of or supporting a team.

All of you that are fine with it - will be fine with it - until it is benefiting some other team and UT can't keep up and the losses start coming, and that will happen. And when last year's star UT player at another school leads a victory against UT - I know you will blame the university, the administration, the boosters for not giving enough money when in reality it is the culture where players think the world owes them something even before they have earned it.

Couldn’t keep up with the old guard bag man system. Only a few got the NCAA wink/wink nod/nod clear sailing pass and had the setup. Saban is bitter because he could close a player that he really had no long term plans for, park him on the roster with draconian transfer rules where the HC could veto destinations and you had to sit out a year and if he put you in a game you lost a season of eligibility and your payout was relative pennies on the dollar. A red Dodge Charger from one of his dealership and/or a job for your family and a leased house if you were talented enough to be a first round draft pick. All perfect for a man with all the personality/charm of a basking shark and who got bumped up each season to past $10 mil per himself. Being a real life car salesman lent to selling the talent but he could no longer strongarm them into staying. Hasn’t hurt his protege Kirby (at least yet), and other big programs like tOSU have missed little to no beat by adjusting with the times, but it’s allowed personable types like Heupel rise much faster than Saban was comfortable. So we get the speech.

 

[CAVPUT]

Yep, just read it. And he's 100% right. These excerpts stood out. View attachment 625187View attachment 625186

I'd have to guess there are many of the older coaches who feel very much the same way. If they can make the move to the NFL or are close enough to retirement, they'll pull the trigger. Some might just say to heck with it and become coordinators instead of being the head guy. Let the young guy be the face everyone targets and turns on. Up and comers who are cutting their teeth in this new era will be more likely to embrace it and be successful. I see it on this board. I can easily determine the old school guys from the youngsters. Their outlook, perception and attitudes on the portal and NIL are completely different. Maybe they'll figure this thing out and the game stays strong. Some sane folks better do something soon tho. Can't imagine college coaches dealing with this wild west mentality for too much longer. At some point, there's going to be a realization that there's more to life than "getting paid".

 

[LouderVol]

Normal students generally are not getting their education completely paid for, free advertisement of their skills in front of millions on a Saturday, free tutoring, and NIL contracts just to name a few.

If you want to treat them like normal students, then do so - no payment to participate in anything related to the university- they pay for their education. They pay to attend sporting events. They pay for food, lodging, travel, gear they use, etc.

you also forgot to remove all the free marketing the athletes get. get rid of the TV deals, nowadays any media including radio and streaming too. bust Neyland stadium back down and only allow family and students to watch the game. if you really want amateur sports lets treat it like any other of the club sports at UT. been to a UT men's soccer, or a rugby game? Maybe a paintball match? accept that level of availability and then you can complain that they should be treated like amateurs.

coaches should allow be volunteers (no pun intended) with only a per diem. no access to advanced training or medical treatments.

you think fans will support the level of competition that arises from true amateurism?

 

[VAVol85]

IMO, having to pay guys above the table doesn't stress him (and other coaches) out.

What really stresses them out is the Portal. The real sea change in the sport is guys being able to leave and play immediately. Really has equalized the balance of power between the players and coaches/schools. They have so much more leverage now than they used to.

I guess coaching would be more fun when you stack exceptional talent 3-4 deep at every position and just tell them “don’t ask me about playing time, just wait your turn”.

 

[05_never_again]

I guess coaching would be more fun when you stack exceptional talent 3-4 deep at every position and just tell them “don’t ask me about playing time, just wait your turn”.

Sure - or like the pros where you sign them to a contract and they can't just leave (or plausibly threaten to leave) at the end of each season, unless their contract is expiring. I wouldn't want to put up with it either.

 

[feathersax]

I'd have to guess there are many of the older coaches who feel very much the same way. If they can make the move to the NFL or are close enough to retirement, they'll pull the trigger. Some might just say to heck with it and become coordinators instead of being the head guy. Let the young guy be the face everyone targets and turns on. Up and comers who are cutting their teeth in this new era will be more likely to embrace it and be successful. I see it on this board. I can easily determine the old school guys from the youngsters. Their outlook, perception and attitudes on the portal and NIL are completely different. Maybe they'll figure this thing out and the game stays strong. Some sane folks better do something soon tho. Can't imagine college coaches dealing with this wild west mentality for too much longer. At some point, there's going to be a realization that there's more to life than "getting paid".

Nick Saban...poor lad. He's relegated to living the life in Jupiter FL.

 

[VAVol85]

If Saban was Heupel's age, he'd have to adapt. From Saban's prism, he has done precisely as he described. Pull in 5 stars, mold them (like Doug Mathews calls them "soakers") for a redshirt year and they finally get to play as a junior.

Two things happened before the portal came into being. First, there are many very good football players that never saw the field and walked away with a degree from Alabama. Maybe they got a "participation trophy ring" for a natty, but for all practical purposes, they got to be on the sideline like a waterboy. Those guys were trapped. Secondly, most of those guys wouldn't pan out in the NFL, so the experience of college football - actually playing the game - was lost on some good players, and good players want to play. Water seeks it's level and good players want to play - sit the bench at Bama or be the hero at Vandy?

Saban like a hoarder for 4 stars and he can't do that now. I think guardrails need to be on the transfer portal, it is difficult water to navigate and that's going to be tricky. Put a limit on how many times a player can transfer and now you have anti-trust lawsuits hitting you. There isn't a clean answer. Saban is too old to adapt, and I honestly thing the prospect of him losing 4 or more games next year and getting the heat from a spoiled fanbase is not the way he wanted to go out.

It can get ugly for a coach that has won natty's. Yes the repuations get tarnished. Look at the coaches that won natty's that got fired. At Bama, it was Stallings. Les Miles, Fulmer, Chizick and probably others. Can't win today's games on yesterday's home runs my Dad used to say.

Honestly listening to the Bama podcasts and forums - they still have a lot of that hoarded talent, but there is a good chance they won't have a stellar season (by Bama standards) next season 2024, and the parity that has brought to college football is, for now, a good thing. A Bama fanbase meltdown will be glorious to watch, like after Stallings got fired. Seven years or more in the wilderness then and it was good.

Bottom line, Saban is too old to adapt and he's a control freak and he can't control any more.

Totally agree…except that technically Stallings retired to spend time with his family (and there is an element of truth to that).

 

[ptcarter]

Totally agree…except that technically Stallings retired to spend time with his family (and there is an element of truth to that).

Yep, but it's a lot like the night of the long knives (German history), the option they gave ‎Ernst Röhm.

 

[VAVol85]

Yep, but it's a lot like the night of the long knives (German history), the option they gave ‎Ernst Röhm.

Stallings was a defense oriented guy, but boosters were tired of winning games 7-3, 10-7, etc. (also losing to UF) and as you say made life miserable for him. The truthful part of leaving to spend time with his family was that Stallings had a son with Down syndrome and he probably did have limited time with his son. He wrote “Another Season” about his son. Good guy IMHO.