Saban's Coaching Internship Program - Article

#26
#26
BeardedVol said:
You are leaving out the terms "comparable employment or paid position" which is spelled out in his contract.

Choosing to stay an analyst at Alabama is well within his rights, but is not making a 'reasonable effort' to obtain comparable employment.
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Not leaving that out at all. I'm well aware of the types of jobs UT considered comparable.

Our difference is that "making an effort to mitigate the buyout" seems to me like it means he has to throw his name in the hat for comparable jobs, get interviews, etc. It doesn't mean he actually has to accept a comparable job. In your reading of it, "making an effort to mitigate the buyout" means he actually has to accept a comparable job, if offered. I don't see where the contract explicitly demands acceptance of a comparable job though...if it does, then it's really poorly written and nowhere near explicit enough.

If it's as cut and dry as you say, why are we still paying him? I'll admit, "because our admin is stupid" is a totally acceptable answer to that question though.
 
#27
#27
05_never_again said:
Said it a bunch before and I'll say it again:

I totally understand the money these coaches are making. What's hard to wrap my head around are the buyouts. Clearly, since seemingly every coach has one, the market environment is such that coaches simply have this leverage over the schools. I get that it is lucrative to have a good football program, but it is so lucrative that you should be willing to give that much guaranteed money?

For instance - take Taggart's situation. He had a 6-year, $30m deal with FSU. He worked for them for 1.5 years, then was fired. He earned about $7.5m for that work. The buyout totaled just north of $18m.

So basically here's the deal he was offered when FSU signed him - you can work for 6 years and make $30m, or you can work for 1.5 years and make about $25.5m (the $7.5m he earned while employed + the buyout). You can work 100% of the contract length for 100% of the contract amount, or work 25% of the contract length for 85% of the contract amount. That is absolutely insane.

What's the incentive for these guys to show up every day, nose to the grindstone, if their ultimate pay isn't really going to be affected if they're fired? I understand that sports is probably the most performance-driven business and these guys want some measure of a cushion if/when they're fired, but these buyouts are absolutely ridiculous.
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If I’m Jimbo I coast every year and enjoy my money
 
#28
#28
BeardedVol said:
You are leaving out the terms "comparable employment or paid position" which is spelled out in his contract.

Choosing to stay an analyst at Alabama is well within his rights, but is not making a 'reasonable effort' to obtain comparable employment.
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Jones is making an effort schools aren’t as desperate as we were
 
#30
#30
05_never_again said:
Failing to make a reasonable effort to obtain said employment, not failing to obtain said employment, would technically put him in breach of it. Which is probably why Tennessee hasn't sued him.

Based on the jobs he's interviewed for, he can argue until the cows come home he made an effort to mitigate the buyout. It doesn't say he actually has to accept.
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He could also say he’s in line for a position and we’d never question it
 
#31
#31
volfanhill said:
I get the frustration at Jones. But I don’t think people are taking into account how if we went after him that may have an adverse impact on our next coaching search.
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I think most coaches would be ashamed to do what Jones has done the last two years.
 
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#32
#32
Roustabout said:
I think most coaches would be ashamed to do what Jones has done the last two years.
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The reality is we know his name has been connected to a few gigs and he interviews for some. I am surprised so many think he would have jobs being tossed at him left and right. We have no reason to believe he’s ducking employment besides some off handed comment by Saban. My guess is Saban was trying to make Butch look better.
 
#33
#33
BeardedVol said:
I see you've not read Butch's contract. Section 3.1.4 lays out what is considered an acceptable position for fulfilling his requirement to mitigate the Universities's requirement to pay liquidated damages in the event of termination "without cause":

Butch-Tard.png
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While you highlighted it, you seem to be ignoring the first sentence of the portion you highlighted.

It's also worth noting that Arkansas is the only school who has chosen to sue over this type of thing. If you want future UT coaching searches to end the way that Arkansas' just did, then have at it.
 
#34
#34
bamawriter said:
While you highlighted it, you seem to be ignoring the first sentence of the portion you highlighted.

It's also worth noting that Arkansas is the only school who has chosen to sue over this type of thing. If you want future UT coaching searches to end the way that Arkansas' just did, then have at it.
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What part did I ignore? He hasn't fulfilled that portion either. He's going into his 3rd off season after being fired, that's well beyond "reasonable" in terms of time.

It's all a moot point anyway if what Saban said was true. If Butch turned down comparable employment to stay as an analyst at Alabama, a position that does not satisfy the terms of his contract, then UT is under no contractual obligation to continue paying him liquidated damages.
 
#35
#35
volfanhill said:
The reality is we know his name has been connected to a few gigs and he interviews for some. I am surprised so many think he would have jobs being tossed at him left and right. We have no reason to believe he’s ducking employment besides some off handed comment by Saban. My guess is Saban was trying to make Butch look better.
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So, you’re telling me that someone with his resume should be a $35k intern versus an assistant, position coach, mid major, lower division?

I’m not surprised a power 5 hasn’t hired him. So, that’s not the issue. The ONLY reason he isn’t pursuing other options is because of the buyout, which top me is clear proof he isn’t genuinely pursuing work.
 
#36
#36
Roustabout said:
So, you’re telling me that someone with his resume should be a $35k intern versus an assistant, position coach, mid major, lower division?

I’m not surprised a power 5 hasn’t hired him. So, that’s not the issue. The ONLY reason he isn’t pursuing other options is because of the buyout, which top me is clear proof he isn’t genuinely pursuing work.
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He’s at Bama to rehab his image. It’s the island of misfit coaches. Trick a program into thinking some of that Saban magic rubbed off on him. And he’s been tied to numerous coaching searches and reported interviews
 
#38
#38
Why do fans take it so personal as if you are paying Butch out of your own pocket? What difference does it make? It doesn't matter. The contracts are what they are. I wish in my job it wasnt so cut throat and contracts had such golden parachutes. If I was Butch I'd ditch the Alabama job and kick back on a beach somewhere as soon as Tennessee finished paying out that money. That might actually be the plan.
 
#39
#39
I have a feeling Butch did some real shady stuff at UT that UT doesn’t want to risk becoming public if they took him to court, so they just leave it alone. I think they’ve got a great case to sue and win.
 
#40
#40
BeardedVol said:
UT should stop paying Butch, and if he files suit, then they can subpoena Saban and ask him:

"I know Butch had job opportunities after last year and he decided he wanted to stay here." - Nick Saban 10/16/2019
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Job opportunities does not mean head coaching jobs. Could have just be analyst jobs somewhere else. He was also rumored to be the WR coach for Maryland.
 
#42
#42
BeardedVol said:
What part did I ignore? He hasn't fulfilled that portion either. He's going into his 3rd off season after being fired, that's well beyond "reasonable" in terms of time.

It's all a moot point anyway if what Saban said was true. If Butch turned down comparable employment to stay as an analyst at Alabama, a position that does not satisfy the terms of his contract, then UT is under no contractual obligation to continue paying him liquidated damages.
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Saban didnt say comparable. He just said jobs in your quote. Could have been the coffee maker position at McDonalds.
 
#43
#43
LouderVol said:
A bunch of coaches have gone thru the Saban analyst role route.
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A bunch? The only HC I know of is Sarkisian and his circumstances were a LOT different. I think he was promoted to OC the same year he became an analyst. Of course he left for OC job in Atlanta. Even a sloppy drunk is more hirable than Butch.
 
#44
#44
LouderVol said:
Job opportunities does not mean head coaching jobs. Could have just be analyst jobs somewhere else. He was also rumored to be the WR coach for Maryland.
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If he turned down the chance to obtain 'comparable employment' in order to stay an analyst at Alabama, he is more than welcome to do so, but UT is then no longer obligated to continue to pay him liquidated damages, as he has a contractual obligation to seek out a position as an assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level.
 
#45
#45
BeardedVol said:
If he turned down the chance to obtain 'comparable employment' in order to stay an analyst at Alabama, he is more than welcome to do so, but UT is then no longer obligated to continue to pay him liquidated damages, as he has a contractual obligation to seek out a position as an assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level.
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He has a job on the staff of a college football program. Once again, look at the first sentence you highlighted from the contract (specifically, the part before the first comma).
 
#46
#46
Roustabout said:
A bunch? The only HC I know of is Sarkisian and his circumstances were a LOT different. I think he was promoted to OC the same year he became an analyst. Of course he left for OC job in Atlanta. Even a sloppy drunk is more hirable than Butch.
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Bielema is currently going that route, and Arky has stopped paying his buyout because of it. Mike Stoops is also an analyst for Alabama.
 
#47
#47
bamawriter said:
He has a job on the staff of a college football program. Once again, look at the first sentence you highlighted from the contract (specifically, the part before the first comma).
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And 'analyst' is not a position that is called out as being considered 'comparable employment' per his contract. It specifically calls out assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level; contract language matters.
 
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#48
#48
BeardedVol said:
And 'analyst' is not a position that is called out as being considered 'comparable employment' per his contract. It specifically calls out assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level; contract language matters.
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Once again, read the part before the first comma. If necessary, read it twice.
 
#49
#49
bamawriter said:
Once again, read the part before the first comma. If necessary, read it twice.
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Read the highlighted part, for the purpose of fulfilling the requirement of section 3.1.4; you can't remove the word "comparable" from "comparable employment or paid services position".

An analyst is does not fulfill the requirements of finding a 'comparable employment or paid services position' in the terms that Butch agreed do, as for the purpose of fulfilling section 3.1.4, which specify 'assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level' as being 'comparable' in terms of the contract.

Again, contract language matters.
 
#50
#50
BeardedVol said:
Read the highlighted part, for the purpose of fulfilling the requirement of section 3.1.4; you can't remove the word "comparable" from "comparable employment or paid services position".

An analyst is does not fulfill the requirements of finding a 'comparable employment or paid services position' in the terms that Butch agreed do, as for the purpose of fulfilling section 3.1.4, which specify 'assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level' as being 'comparable' in terms of the contract.

Again, contract language matters.
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Agreed, language matters. You are choosing to ignore the language before the comma. And that's problematic, because that language would be a major focal point of a hypothetical suit.
 
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