Saban's Coaching Internship Program - Article

#51
#51
bamawriter said:
Agreed, language matters. You are choosing to ignore the language before the comma. And that's problematic, because that language would be a major focal point of a hypothetical suit.
Click to expand...

No I'm not.

The highlighted part states plainly, that for the purposes of the section 3.1.4, 'assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level' is deemed "comparable". An analyst position, far below that of assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level, is not for purposes of his contract, deemed "comparable".
 
#52
#52
BeardedVol said:
No I'm not.

The highlighted part states plainly, that for the purposes of the section 3.1.4, 'assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level' is deemed "comparable". An analyst position, far below that of assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level, is not for purposes of his contract, deemed "comparable".
Click to expand...

You've yet to address it outside of claiming that you're not ignoring it.

Let me ask plainly: what do you understand the language before the comma to mean?
 
#53
#53
05_never_again said:
Bielema is currently going that route, and Arky has stopped paying his buyout because of it. Mike Stoops is also an analyst for Alabama.
Click to expand...
Beleima is the DL coach for the Patriots.
Stoops has done one year as an analyst. I’ll bet you he’ll be a coach somewhere this coming year. Butch has done two years and looks almost certain to do three.
 
#54
#54
BeardedVol said:
No I'm not.

The highlighted part states plainly, that for the purposes of the section 3.1.4, 'assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level' is deemed "comparable". An analyst position, far below that of assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level, is not for purposes of his contract, deemed "comparable".
Click to expand...
I don't think anybody is disagreeing that his current job is not comparable. You are quite correct that the contract explicitly states what constitutes a comparable job, and "offensive analyst" wouldn't appear to fall into that category. That also isn't the point.

The salient terms here are that he's required to use "reasonable best efforts" and "reasonable and diligent efforts" to obtain a comparable job and mitigate UT's obligation to pay liquidated damages. He has to make reasonable efforts to obtain a comparable job. Butch would argue, and probably quite effectively, that he's thrown his name in the hat for various HC jobs and gotten interviews, and that constitutes reasonable best efforts to get comparable employment. If he wasn't throwing his name in the hat for comparable jobs, then Tennessee would have a great case for not paying him.

You seem to further define "efforts" as "must accept a comparable job if offered." That isn't explicitly spelled out in the contract. If Tennessee contractually wanted him to have to accept a comparable job, then they should have spelled that out clearly. But it doesn't say that. It says he has to make an effort to. I bet Butch wouldn't have signed the contract either, if that was the case. I don't know anybody who would sign an employment contract that would force them to accept some other comparable job if they ever got fired from that one.
 
#55
#55
Roustabout said:
Beleima is the DL coach for the Patriots.
Stoops has done one year as an analyst. I’ll bet you he’ll be a coach somewhere this coming year. Butch has done two years and looks almost certain to do three.
Click to expand...
He became DL coach this year. Last year, he was a "volunteer" analyst/consultant to Belichick.
 
#57
#57
bamawriter said:
You've yet to address it outside of claiming that you're not ignoring it.

Let me ask plainly: what do you understand the language before the comma to mean?
Click to expand...

The statement after the comma clarifies the statement prior to the comma, or are you asking me to explain the grammatical structure of the sentence for you?

"Coach agrees that the following positions shall be deemed comparable for the purpose of this section 3.1.4"

So in reference to the statement prior to the comma "without limiting the types of positions that are comparable", UT is not going to list out all positions that would fulfill the requirements of 3.1.4, but they then called out clear examples that for the purposes of this section of the contract would suffice as "comparable" an "assistant or head football coach at a college or university; professional football assistant or head coach; and athletics administrator at a college or university".

Those types of jobs are, for the purpose of section 3.1.4, deemed "comparable" for fulfilling the requirements spelled out for the payment of liquidated damages. If Butch had a job as a sport analyst for ESPN or some other type of media job, there's an argument to be made that color commentator for ESPN is a "comparable paid services position", but analyst for Alabama, not so much, and Butch and his lawyer would have a difficult time in mediation/trial arguing to that effect.

UT would be well within their rights to notify Butch that he is in breach of contract, and that all payments would cease, and Butch could file suit, but would open up Jimmy Sexton's communications with various college athletic departments to discovery; Sexton would not let that happen.
 
#58
#58
BeardedVol said:
The statement after the comma clarifies the statement prior to the comma, or are you asking me to explain the grammatical structure of the sentence for you?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind a breakdown of the sentence structure. But, the language before the comma qualifies the subject after the comma, not the other way around, so you're off to a poor start.

"Coach agrees that the following positions shall be deemed comparable for the purpose of this section 3.1.4"

So in reference to the statement prior to the comma "without limiting the types of positions that are comparable", UT is not going to list out all positions that would fulfill the requirements of 3.1.4, but they then called out clear examples that for the purposes of this section of the contract would suffice as "comparable" an "assistant or head football coach at a college or university; professional football assistant or head coach; and athletics administrator at a college or university".

Those types of jobs are, for the purpose of section 3.1.4, deemed "comparable" for fulfilling the requirements spelled out for the payment of liquidated damages. If Butch had a job as a sport analyst for ESPN or some other type of media job, there's an argument to be made that color commentator for ESPN is a "comparable paid services position", but analyst for Alabama, not so much, and Butch and his lawyer would have a difficult time in mediation/trial arguing to that effect.
Click to expand...

See, here's the problem: you're applying what you think is comparable to what would legally be deemed comparable within the language of the contract. An analyst position on a college staff is more fundamentally comparable than a studio analyst to a college head coaching job, regardless of the salary. You are convinced otherwise, but you wouldn't be hearing the case.
 
#59
#59
Roustabout said:
A bunch? The only HC I know of is Sarkisian and his circumstances were a LOT different. I think he was promoted to OC the same year he became an analyst. Of course he left for OC job in Atlanta. Even a sloppy drunk is more hirable than Butch.
Click to expand...
The sloppy drunk stayed at Bama as an OC. Not HC.

The Maryland coach was there before people freaked out. He lasted like a week.

Michael Stoops and Major Applewhite are two other HCs that have been there for a minute.
 
#60
#60
BeardedVol said:
If he turned down the chance to obtain 'comparable employment' in order to stay an analyst at Alabama, he is more than welcome to do so, but UT is then no longer obligated to continue to pay him liquidated damages, as he has a contractual obligation to seek out a position as an assistant or head football coach at the college or professional level.
Click to expand...
And that is not what Saban said. I dont like butch just as much as anyone reasonable. But you are making stuff up to suit your argument. We dont know what jobs Butch turned down.

I doubt even you would argue that Butch has to accept any HC contract thrown his way to avoid breaking the terms with UT. That's ridiculous.
 
#61
#61
LouderVol said:
And that is not what Saban said. I dont like butch just as much as anyone reasonable. But you are making stuff up to suit your argument. We dont know what jobs Butch turned down.

I doubt even you would argue that Butch has to accept any HC contract thrown his way to avoid breaking the terms with UT. That's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

That seems to be what he's arguing.
 
#62
#62
bamawriter said:
That seems to be what he's arguing.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but I am wondering to what level he is taking his ridiculousness.

Like: Butch has to pay the school for every loss. For every player not at least a 4 star in one service, he gets fined. Or his pay stays at 35,000 long past his buyout period.
 
#63
#63
Butch knows what he’s doing, and it’s pathetic. He either has no desire to challenge himself or he is doing this purposefully to stick it to his previous employer. It’s an integrity issue IMO. The fact he smoked cigars and posed for pictures while doing so at Neyland last year is also an awful look, reveling in the consequence of a team he created. Saban is also enabling, while at the same time complaining about what his former coaches are doing.

It’s a shame all the way around. True champion of life here. SMH.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tennesseefan2019 and rltw1974
#64
#64
rjd970 said:
Butch knows what he’s doing, and it’s pathetic. He either has no desire to challenge himself or he is doing this purposefully to stick it to his previous employer. It’s an integrity issue IMO. The fact he smoked cigars and posed for pictures while doing so at Neyland last year is also an awful look, reveling in the consequence of a team he created. Saban is also enabling, while at the same time complaining about what his former coaches are doing.

It’s a shame all the way around. True champion of life here. SMH.
Click to expand...
I dont get being bent out of shape about him celebrating a win over us; whilst simultaneously calling for him to get another HC job where he could enjoy a win over us...
 
#65
#65
CR-vol said:
Why do fans take it so personal as if you are paying Butch out of your own pocket? What difference does it make? It doesn't matter. The contracts are what they are. I wish in my job it wasnt so cut throat and contracts had such golden parachutes. If I was Butch I'd ditch the Alabama job and kick back on a beach somewhere as soon as Tennessee finished paying out that money. That might actually be the plan.
Click to expand...
If true then that is the worst indictment of his character. Basically makes him a worm. No self respecting person would ever let their legacy be that they got rich by welcoming failure.
There is something that drives great coaches and it’s rarely been money. I hate what money has done to college football and I guess Jones is the poster child for that.
 
#66
#66
LouderVol said:
I dont get being bent out of shape about him celebrating a win over us; whilst simultaneously calling for him to get another HC job where he could enjoy a win over us...
Click to expand...
Please... he couldn't beat Dooley in 2011. And as for the cigar? I understand that is a tradition but to do that while your getting fat checks from Tennessee every month and not even a real coach at Alabama? Not everyone in Butch Jones's position would have handled it that way, that's for sure.
 
#67
#67
Roustabout said:
If true then that is the worst indictment of his character. Basically makes him a worm. No self respecting person would ever let their legacy be that they got rich by welcoming failure.
There is something that drives great coaches and it’s rarely been money. I hate what money has done to college football and I guess Jones is the poster child for that.
Click to expand...

In your opinion. I don't have a problem with when anyone decides to hang their hat up for whatever reason.
 
#68
#68
BowlBrother85 said:
Please... he couldn't beat Dooley in 2011. And as for the cigar? I understand that is a tradition but to do that while your getting fat checks from Tennessee every month and not even a real coach at Alabama? Not everyone in Butch Jones's position would have handled it that way, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
I bet they would. If Mizzou and arkansas play next year I bet Odom, an alum of Mizzou, would celebrate a win with Arkansas. What they do with the team is different than what they do in private.

You couldnt keep your job if you didnt partake in activities like that.
 
#69
#69
LouderVol said:
I bet they would. If Mizzou and arkansas play next year I bet Odom, an alum of Mizzou, would celebrate a win with Arkansas. What they do with the team is different than what they do in private.

You couldnt keep your job if you didnt partake in activities like that.
Click to expand...
That is just plain dumb.... you don't have to smoke cigars. There is always room for tact.
 
#70
#70
BowlBrother85 said:
That is just plain dumb.... you don't have to smoke cigars. There is always room for tact.
Click to expand...
Really you would keep a coach on staff who publically refused to partake in a victory celebration? People hate on Pruit for staying on Bamas staff during the playoffs and were using it as an excuse to want fire him at the start of our season.

Butch didnt take the picture. Someone else did and published it. There are tons of reasons to hate Butch. This is not one of them.
 
#71
#71
LouderVol said:
Really you would keep a coach on staff who publically refused to partake in a victory celebration? People hate on Pruit for staying on Bamas staff during the playoffs and were using it as an excuse to want fire him at the start of our season.

Butch didnt take the picture. Someone else did and published it. There are tons of reasons to hate Butch. This is not one of them.
Click to expand...

I would keep said coach on staff and would understand given his circumstances and ties to the team we just beat. I didn’t like Pruitt staying at Bama for the playoffs for obvious reasons but I totally respect it.

Butch posed for that picture. Period. To believe he didn’t think or believe it would get out is the height of naivety.

This is absolutely a reason to hate butch and is an indictment on his character in my opinion. He’s rubbing it in the faces of the players he recruited and sat in living rooms of asking them to trust him and believe in him.

F that guy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rltw1974
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top