Sanders is the problem
- Thread starter rockytopmojo
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I actually remain quite calm, in comparison to a few others around here. My post was, IMO, completely civil. The second paragraph, although obviously misconstrued, was not directed solely at you, but at the group as a whole of posters who game-in and game-out go 'round the coach-bashing tree. On a side note, "Only curious" and "WTH?" are to me fairly incompatible. You asked for an opinion, and this is a message board, so I felt free to express my frustration with some of the comments made to this point. Perhaps if my stating how I feel on a free-speech internet board bothers you, then "maybe this is not the place for you."
Oh, and thanks for the advice, but I am quite confident of my Reading Comprehension skills.
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milohimself
RIP CITY
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orangetd88
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Agreed.
I also find it humorous that while everyone loves Fulmer, they love to hate Sanders. If you think that Sanders has complete control of the offense with little input from Fulmer, you're crazy.
I also love it when people start to cry and want Cutt back. 10 years ago, these same people wanted him gone for calling similar games.
1996 Memphis, anyone?
T_man_J
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First of all I would eliminate every play that calls for the 3 back running in the 3, 1, 2, or 4 hole if the blocking scheme was a zone (or head's up). I would do this because our offensive line are getting stood up by the defense. Our linemen are actually standing up too early out of the three-point stance (look at the video).
Now for my plays. I would start each game with traps on the inside like an I LEFT 31 TRAP and an I RIGHT 32 TRAP. I would do this because this allows the center and one guard to double-team one d tackle; it allows the other guard to pull and trap block the other d-tackle (God knows that we need angles to get good blocks).
Now for the coaching magic. I would coach up the QB to look for the linebackers crowding the line (that's the only way they could stop the interior traps); when he sees this, the QB would be instructed to audible off to a sweep trap (like an I LEFT 39 SWEEP TRAP or an I RIGHT 38 SWEEP TRAP). The right or left variation would be depending on the position of the defensive backfield.
The defense has two ways to stop the SWEEP TRAP. They can spread the d-line (or use linebackers) to try to get containment or they can bring up the safeties for run support. Again, I would coach up the QB to look for this d adjustment. If the safties come up for run support I would have the QB audible off to either an X or Y post passing play (depending on which safety was in run-support position) with special instructions for the X (or Y) receiver to get his rear end behind the safety. Just to ensure the QB had options (or progressions) I would go ahead and assign passing routes for the other receivers (and maybe the 3 back also, something like SLOT RIGHT 586 H-SWING), but the QB's first read would be the posting receiver.
Now here comes the magic again. If the defensive just spreads out or tries to use the linebackers for corner containment, the QB would audible off to the interior traps; the whole dang process starts over.
See guys, football ain't rocket science.
Now for your last question. PF is a good coach and an excellent recruiter. The problem is he never breaks out the good stuff early in the season because he assumes that other teams will develop an effective counter. If players are not allowed to practice the "good stuff" under game conditions, they will never perfect the execution on the play. So our guys run these goofy running plays into an 8-man box; completely loose their motivation and confidence.
I apologize for this long post (sometimes I get carried away).
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A couple of things: First, I think you have to be able to run between the guards, if for no other reason than to keep the defense honest. I understand what you are saying about trapping, but it seems to me that trapping is increasingly difficult due to athletic defenses and the fact that we were running a 3rd string center out there.
Got to give you credit though. Whether I agree with you or not, you do come with something that makes a heck of a lot more sense than the typical playcall bashers that oversimplify everything and automatically blame the coaches every time a play breaks down. It's nice to hear somebody complain about playcalling and offer something other than a reurgitated phrase they heard from a washed up color commentator.
Got to give you credit though. Whether I agree with you or not, you do come with something that makes a heck of a lot more sense than the typical playcall bashers that oversimplify everything and automatically blame the coaches every time a play breaks down. It's nice to hear somebody complain about playcalling and offer something other than a reurgitated phrase they heard from a washed up color commentator.
T_man_J
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The interior traps would be for the 1 and 2 hole (basically between the guards); I think these would work because the center would get help on his block. The formation would be out of the I, so if the 2-back (full back) blocked the middle linebacker, all Riggs would have to do is run over a safety (I think he can do that).
I like your post, its one of the more intelligent I have read.
I agree with you linebackers crowd the line against us. With no tight end usually, and no play action, there is nothing to hold them. The lead blocker is your fullback the linebackers have no responsibility to cover anyone. You have 7 people then coming full speed trying to fill the hole you just created. With the speed of the defenses now that is asking a lot of you o-line.
ncvol
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No biggie Doc. It is a thing of passion for everyone on here, else they would not be on the board. I understand the frustration of some on the board, I my self included. I see how well some of the other teams did in their opener (GA) and wonder why we could not have done the same. The reasons are as numerous as the number of opinions on this board. I agree that it is just as much a motivation and execution thing on the players' shoulders as it is about the coaches. Also the game should be looked at as a whole, which I did not see all that much wrong with except for a couple of calls by the umps (in favor of both teams), the execution of our offense and secondary on some series, and a few of the play calls (hence my question about the 4th quarter sequence). Maybe my question was taken in the wrong context because it was on a thread asking for Sanders' head (which I believe is not the step that should be taken). Whatever, it will not do anyone any good, since most people yapping about Sanders' firing are simply irrational at this point as this was the first game. Personally I wanted his head a few years ago but last year really changed my mind about him. I don't know, what do you think? I also did not like the feeling of leaving that stadium with a win but in every way (except in the books) it felt like a loss. It really sucked.
volmanjr
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The hype monster is hard to live up to, it was a dissappointing performance for everyone after all the talk of NC runs and hiesman darkhorses blah, blah, blah.... somebody said it best in another thread UT usually plays better with their backs to the wall and as underdogs, hopefully this game and the poll reactions and media coverage will snap this team back into reality... bring on the Gators!!!! GO VOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
donsargegolf
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The reason I think we would do well with 4 receivers, is because it has worked well in the past. There are 2 games that stand out in my mind.
The first was the 86 sugar bowl, against Miami. We had a 2nd string qb, Dickey, who could not throw the deep ball well. No one gave us a chance that game, but we blew them out anyway.
The other game was when Casey Clausen was a freshman and Suggs got the start against Florida. Another game where no one gave us a chance and we had a qb with a weak arm. Yet, except for a bad call at the end of the game, we would have won that game.
The reason I bring up these games is, to point out how well we ran the ball both games playing with QB's who couldnt throw the deep ball. Spreading the field really opens up running lanes in IMO. I really don't understand why everyone thinks if we use a formation with 4 wide receivers we are going to have less success running the ball. I think it actually spreads the field and makes it easier to run the ball. Just my imo. I think with the receivers we have now and the qb's this offense is a good fit.
I dont think Sanders should be fired. I've never said that. Just because, you dont like the formations or plays we are using doesnt mean you are ready to get rid of the guy. He's called games and done a good job in the past. I just dont like the formation we are using. One last thing, I don't understand why people say they dont like people bashing other people's posts, when they spend part of their post doing the same thing.
The first was the 86 sugar bowl, against Miami. We had a 2nd string qb, Dickey, who could not throw the deep ball well. No one gave us a chance that game, but we blew them out anyway.
The other game was when Casey Clausen was a freshman and Suggs got the start against Florida. Another game where no one gave us a chance and we had a qb with a weak arm. Yet, except for a bad call at the end of the game, we would have won that game.
The reason I bring up these games is, to point out how well we ran the ball both games playing with QB's who couldnt throw the deep ball. Spreading the field really opens up running lanes in IMO. I really don't understand why everyone thinks if we use a formation with 4 wide receivers we are going to have less success running the ball. I think it actually spreads the field and makes it easier to run the ball. Just my imo. I think with the receivers we have now and the qb's this offense is a good fit.
I dont think Sanders should be fired. I've never said that. Just because, you dont like the formations or plays we are using doesnt mean you are ready to get rid of the guy. He's called games and done a good job in the past. I just dont like the formation we are using. One last thing, I don't understand why people say they dont like people bashing other people's posts, when they spend part of their post doing the same thing.
OldVol
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When we have finished taking the Urban/Leak combo out behind the wood shed, we'll all be talking about what a great game Randy called.
Just like after last year's win, and the one before that.
Just like in his first ever game against FSU to win the NC in the Fiesta Bowl in 99.
Just like year before last when we pulled down the Cane's pants and tanned their hinnies red.
Just like last year when we pummeled Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl.
We lost 3 games last year. 2 of them were to arguably the best team in the nation. The other loss was to a solid ND team with our team riddled with injuries. Our 3rd string QB came in and made one bad mistake and it cost us the game.
There's no way any game we lost last year could be attributed to poor coaching.
Some of you guys are eternal, infernal pessimists.
Hey, that's okey dokey. It takes all kinds to keep things balanced. If we were all type As, where would the fun be in that?
We optimists do enjoy life a little more though.
Just like after last year's win, and the one before that.
Just like in his first ever game against FSU to win the NC in the Fiesta Bowl in 99.
Just like year before last when we pulled down the Cane's pants and tanned their hinnies red.
Just like last year when we pummeled Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl.
We lost 3 games last year. 2 of them were to arguably the best team in the nation. The other loss was to a solid ND team with our team riddled with injuries. Our 3rd string QB came in and made one bad mistake and it cost us the game.
There's no way any game we lost last year could be attributed to poor coaching.
Some of you guys are eternal, infernal pessimists.
Hey, that's okey dokey. It takes all kinds to keep things balanced. If we were all type As, where would the fun be in that?
We optimists do enjoy life a little more though.
OldVol
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Milo,
Sorry for going back so far to respond to this, but I was just thinking about what you said.
When you look at our conference, from the time Fulmer has been head coach, counting the 3 games in 92, we've had 4 different schools win a National Championship, and another, Auburn, should have been playing for one.
Also, UT played for one in 97 and lost, Florida played for one in 95 and lost, Georgia ended up #3 in 2002.
My point is; when you have that many teams in one conference winning and playing for national titles year in and year out, 2 conference crowns isn't that bad.
Look at the ACC. Prior to the expansion there was FSU. Other than FSU, you have to go all the way back to 1998 before you see another ACC team finishing in the top 10, and that was GT at #9.
In the Big East you had Miami and VT. After that, there was a huge drop off and very few if any top 10 finishes from the Big East.
Looking at the Pac 10 you have USC. Washington threatened in 00 and Oregon in 01, but those were aberrations for those teams, unfortunately. Aside from those 3 there's been no threat from the Pac 10 to challenge for titles, and only one school actually winning one.
The Big 10 and Big 12 have faired a little better, but primarily it's been Oklahoma and Nebraska challenging for the title. Texas has been out of it after the Red River Shootout for many years running now. The Big 10 has had Michigan and OS win titles, and no one else really even threatened.
So bottom line, what I'm saying here is: SEC has had 4 schools win a title and one who has every right to claim a title (Auburn 04).
That's 5 teams to 1 or 2 teams for the other conferences. Plus, this doesnt even take Georgia into account.
Winning an SEC title is often synonymous with winning a National Title. When you consider how much better the top half of the SEC is compared to any other conference, you just dont have the threat you do in other conferences.
The Big 10s big boys have one or two teams to worry about. Same with all the others. The ACC may compare better with the SEC with the addition of VT and Miami, but thats yet to be determined. Even at that, it only puts 3 marquee teams compared to 6 for the SEC.
Its a darned tough thing to win an SECC.
Well Folks:
I have read all the bash Sanders stough and think it is time to stop the S**T. Sanders calls the plays but the players have to make the plays, I saw very little to impress me on Saturday. I had expected to see receivers that could actually catch footballs, and I was disappointed in what I saw. One on this board complained that all Sanders does is call Run Right and Run Left, and I can't help but wonder in which other direction he thinks Sanders should run the ball.
The problem isn't Sanders anymore than it is Chavez. The problem is the players did not do their jobs.
1. Offensive Linemen are supposed to create holes for the backs, but they didn't, at least not very consistently.
2. Offensive Linemen are supposed to insure that the quarterback has enough time to throw the ball, but they didn't do it consistently.
3. The Receivers are supposed to CATCH the football, but they didn't do it consistently.
4. The Pump Returner is supposed to RETURN PUNTS, but he did very little if any of that.
5. The Defensive Line is supposed to rush and sack the quarterback, but they did almost none of that.
6. The Linebackers are supposed to cover the short cross and slant patterns, but they did practically none of that.
7. The Quaterbacks are supposed to complete passes to receivers who are open, but only one quarterback did that with any consistancy.
8. The entire team is supposed to have fire in their eyes, but they did not!
Now, think about it you Sanders Bashers, which of these failures is Sanders fault??????????????
Go Big Orange and stomp the Mastergaiters in the MUDHOLE.
I have read all the bash Sanders stough and think it is time to stop the S**T. Sanders calls the plays but the players have to make the plays, I saw very little to impress me on Saturday. I had expected to see receivers that could actually catch footballs, and I was disappointed in what I saw. One on this board complained that all Sanders does is call Run Right and Run Left, and I can't help but wonder in which other direction he thinks Sanders should run the ball.
The problem isn't Sanders anymore than it is Chavez. The problem is the players did not do their jobs.
1. Offensive Linemen are supposed to create holes for the backs, but they didn't, at least not very consistently.
2. Offensive Linemen are supposed to insure that the quarterback has enough time to throw the ball, but they didn't do it consistently.
3. The Receivers are supposed to CATCH the football, but they didn't do it consistently.
4. The Pump Returner is supposed to RETURN PUNTS, but he did very little if any of that.
5. The Defensive Line is supposed to rush and sack the quarterback, but they did almost none of that.
6. The Linebackers are supposed to cover the short cross and slant patterns, but they did practically none of that.
7. The Quaterbacks are supposed to complete passes to receivers who are open, but only one quarterback did that with any consistancy.
8. The entire team is supposed to have fire in their eyes, but they did not!
Now, think about it you Sanders Bashers, which of these failures is Sanders fault??????????????
Go Big Orange and stomp the Mastergaiters in the MUDHOLE.
Johnny_Majors
I am Heart
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