Santorum

#501
#501
GAVol said:
I'd say I fall into category #1. Though I can see a benefit to the government supporting marriage. I agree with you about the bedroom cop stuff though.
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If there is a benefit to govt supporting marriage, then why aren't they doing it right now? Govt subsidies, welfare, family courts and the like are keeping families divided as we speak. If anything, you can make the argument that the govt actually disrupts the family when they get involved (spanking kids).
 
#502
#502
volfanjustin said:
So if Santorum does get elected what specifically will he do to impose his religious views on every person in America? Why does no one complain when the left imposes their views on us?
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You must not pay attention to this board much. We complain about liberals and their environmental "beliefs" and marxist dogma being forced down kids' throats in school all the time.
 
#507
#507
nbakerld said:
Yes, but nobody knows what the "right/moral" thing is, so the default should be to allow people to choose for themselves. The morality of libertarianism is that we are willing to admit we aren't smart enough to know what's good for the general public. Nobody does, but libertarians are the ones ones who aren't arrogant enough to think they do know what's best for society. That's what the whole philosophy is predicated upon.
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Understood but as GA suggests, the underlying effect is that this morality prevents government action aimed at moving the country "forward" via legislation. You and I may agree that individually chosen actions are the best form of freedom/government but it still dictates that laws cannot be made that foster collective action or encourage/discourage particular behavior.

Put another way - it is imposing a morality that we cannot have laws direct behavior thereby banning certain types of laws based on the underlying moral position.

In the end, government forms all have some underlying moral code that people are to live by. True libertarianism is the least direct since it works against laws that dictate particular behavior.
 
#508
#508
volinbham said:
Understood but as GA suggests, the underlying effect is that this morality prevents government action aimed at moving the country "forward" via legislation. You and I may agree that individually chosen actions are the best form of freedom/government but it still dictates that laws cannot be made that foster collective action or encourage/discourage particular behavior.

Put another way - it is imposing a morality that we cannot have laws direct behavior thereby banning certain types of laws based on the underlying moral position.

In the end, government forms all have some underlying moral code that people are to live by. True libertarianism is the least direct since it works against laws that dictate particular behavior.
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Your point has value, but again it's semantics, and though they are similar they are also very different. "Imposing" freedom is an omissive act. Imposing a socially conservative viewpoint is a commissive act.
 
#511
#511
Whatever you want to call it, it's the winners of an election exercising their mandate.
 
#513
#513
volsforever27 said:
It's all imposing, isn't it? Being serious here.
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Think about it like this. If you are in a classroom and the teacher imposes a "free hall pass" rule as opposed to a "one hall pass per week" rule, from your perspective it's not "all imposing".
 
#514
#514
nbakerld said:
Think about it like this. If you are in a classroom and the teacher imposes a "free hall pass" rule as opposed to a "one hall pass per week" rule, from your perspective it's not "all imposing".
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What about the people who are against any hall passes? :)

I think it all just depends on your point of view. If you're for it, it doesn't seem like it's imposing.
 
#517
#517
utvolpj said:
don't want them then you don't have to use them
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My stance on gay marriage. Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry a man, then. Or civil union. Or condoms. Or birth control. Or blah blah blah. Present it as an option, don't use it if you don't want it.
 
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#519
#519
volatile said:
my stance on gay marriage. Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry a man, then. Or civil union. Or condoms. Or birth control. Or blah blah blah. Present it as an option, don't use it if you don't want it.
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this!
 
#520
#520
could care less if gays marry

but also dont believe being gay is genetic and therefore it is a lifestyle choice.

either way, i still dont care.


i view gays alot like i view the swiss. they exist but i don't run into many and they really don't impact my life.
 
#521
#521
NEOCON said:
could care less if gays marry

but also dont believe being gay is genetic and therefore it is a lifestyle choice.

either way, i still dont care.


i view gays alot like i view the swiss. they exist but i don't run into many and they really don't impact my life.
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Good analogy.

It can be considered a lifestyle choice for all I care, but I consider it genetic. However, an applicable analogy would be like marrying an Asian - it's not for everyone.
 
#522
#522
VOLatile said:
Good analogy.

It can be considered a lifestyle choice for all I care, but I consider it genetic. However, an applicable analogy would be like marrying an Asian - it's not for everyone.
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images
 
#523
#523
NEOCON said:
could care less if gays marry

but also dont believe being gay is genetic and therefore it is a lifestyle choice.

either way, i still dont care.


i view gays alot like i view the swiss. they exist but i don't run into many and they really don't impact my life.
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Not a true conservative, IMO
 
#524
#524
VOLatile said:
My stance on gay marriage. Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry a man, then. Or civil union. Or condoms. Or birth control. Or blah blah blah. Present it as an option, don't use it if you don't want it.
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But a government mandate that birth control must be free is different right? That too is legislating morality
 
#525
#525
volinbham said:
But a government mandate that birth control must be free is different right? That too is legislating morality
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It's the same principle. They are using legislation to bring about their ideal/moral world through government force. I typically associate moral legislation with prohibitive legislation. Not handouts.
 
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