Schiano statistically the worst

[LouderVol]

Two teams we tend to play often are not top 25 but top 5 or Hype's record would be even better.

agreed. our SOS would break Rutgers more than they already are.

 

[LouderVol]

Do people actually read these articles before posting them? Even the headline is a clue to it being pure clickbait

Greg Schiano is one of the worst coaches in college football in key metric . Stop and think about that for a minute.

in key metric. does that make it more clear?

metric. singular not plural.

key. according to who?

Do you realize how many accepted metrics exist to gauge such things? not only that htere are made up metrics everyday where someone just says im gonna add these random numbers together to make my point.

You can literally take that headline and swap in the name of any coach or player in any sport and make it true with the right metric.

Nick Saban is one of the worst coaches in college football in key metric. What metric is it? The OPPG is patented by me (orange pants per game). In his career, Nick Saban has worn orange pants less than every coach in the SEC. In fact, this is true historically for Alabama coaches and assistants outside of, strangely, Jeremy Pruitt. If you compare Alabama coaches to coaches from schools such as Auburn, Florida, Clemson, Syracuse, Texas and Tennessee. Well, his numbers are shockingly low in comparison.

See I just posted an article just as valid as the one the OP linked.

did you read the article?
wins/win percentage against top 25 teams seems like a pretty valid point to be worried about. at least if you are serious about football. They even go on and list some additional information regarding that one metric, only 9 coaches above .500. so its not like they just threw out a random percentage and don't give you any context.
They also discuss his overall win record as well, and they also break it down between his two stops at Rutgers. He is doing worse in this second go around.

Not saying its a great piece of analytics, but they provide more than your response lets on.

 

[pimo1]

did you read the article?
wins/win percentage against top 25 teams seems like a pretty valid point to be worried about. at least if you are serious about football. They even go on and list some additional information regarding that one metric, only 9 coaches above .500. so its not like they just threw out a random percentage and don't give you any context.
They also discuss his overall win record as well, and they also break it down between his two stops at Rutgers. He is doing worse in this second go around.

Not saying its a great piece of analytics, but they provide more than your response lets on.

not necessarily because that metric means different things based on context. Example Saying someone that coached at OSU had a low win percentage against top 25 teams is damning. Saying someone coaching at Mcnesse State had a low winning percentage against top 25 teams is less of a useful metric... because Nick Saban would have a bad record against top 25 teams there.

Now if you could show he coached at school x or even conference x and historically coaches at this school win 50% of their top25 games and he only won 10% thats a point... metrics only have true meaning in the correct context.

 

[LouderVol]

not necessarily because that metric means different things based on context. Example Saying someone that coached at OSU had a low win percentage against top 25 teams is damning. Saying someone coaching at Mcnesse State had a low winning percentage against top 25 teams is less of a useful metric... because Nick Saban would have a bad record against top 25 teams there.

Now if you could show he coached at school x or even conference x and historically coaches at this school win 50% of their top25 games and he only won 10% thats a point... metrics only have true meaning in the correct context.

they did that, with his previous tenure at Rutgers. he is 4-27 overall at Rutgers, and they point out he is currently 0-10 this time at Rutgers. That seems to give a pretty good point of comparison if you are referencing the same coach at the same school. what more context is needed? I mean I guess you could want to wait until he has 20/21 ranked games in his second time. but 0-10 seems like enough to be indicative.

 

[pimo1]

they did that, with his previous tenure at Rutgers. he is 4-27 overall at Rutgers, and they point out he is currently 0-10 this time at Rutgers. That seems to give a pretty good point of comparison if you are referencing the same coach at the same school. what more context is needed? I mean I guess you could want to wait until he has 20/21 ranked games in his second time. but 0-10 seems like enough to be indicative.

you lost me at Rutgers.. that's a good point of comparison to what? Vandy? Rutgers is the big 10's version of Vandy except worse.

In the history of Rutgers they have been ranked in the final top 25 3 times and have spent a total of 37 weeks of their existence ranked.
Greg Schiano is by far the best coach they have ever had and has 80 of their 493 historical wins. They joined the big ten in 2014 before that they were in the Big East/AAC. They have been to 11 bowl games...7 under Schiano and 6 of those when they were in the Big East.
In that context what he has done there is pretty amazing. He did well at the school when it was in a smaller conference he came back once they were in the BIg Ten and took them to their first bowl game since 2014. When he first got o the program they were terrible and after a few years, he had them winning 5-2 bowl record. But even then they were a top 50 team, not top 25. So the metric if him against top 25 teams is more about the situation than his coaching. The Big ten aint the SEC but its a far cry from the AAC and not many recruits are dreaming of playing at Rutgers with such illustrious Alumni such as Tyler Croft and Bo Melton.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Vol fans were certainly always right not to want him as coach, but connecting him to Jerry Sandusky was not fair. There was like some fourth hand hearsay that he might have known something, which every link in the chain of that hearsay went under oath and said they never discussed it with Schiano, so it's pretty clear there was nothing there. Anybody here would be rightly outraged if a similar accusation was made against you under those circumstances. Right is right.

 

[LouderVol]

Vol fans were certainly always right not to want him as coach, but connecting him to Jerry Sandusky was not fair. There was like some fourth hand hearsay that he might have known something, which every link in the chain of that hearsay went under oath and said they never discussed it with Schiano, so it's pretty clear there was nothing there. Anybody here would be rightly outraged if a similar accusation was made against you under those circumstances. Right is right.

agreed.

Him being a terrible fit, and a terrible coach were enough to protest.

 

[butchna]

Vol fans were certainly always right not to want him as coach, but connecting him to Jerry Sandusky was not fair. There was like some fourth hand hearsay that he might have known something, which every link in the chain of that hearsay went under oath and said they never discussed it with Schiano, so it's pretty clear there was nothing there. Anybody here would be rightly outraged if a similar accusation was made against you under those circumstances. Right is right.

Why are fans bound by “fair”? We need to wait until he’s guaranteed a hefty buyout to raise voices?

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Why are fans bound by “fair”? We need to wait until he’s guaranteed a hefty buyout to raise voices?

My opinion is colored by what I've always done for a living which is practice law, so it irks me to see anybody's reputation run down over that kind of thing (fourth hand hearsay that everyone in the supposed chain has denied). He wasn't a coach I wanted at the time though, even though the guy we got wasn't much better, at least he was an unknown. It seemed right off that Schiano would be a bad fit in the SEC.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

agreed.

Him being a terrible fit, and a terrible coach were enough to protest.

Right.

 

[butchna]

My opinion is colored by what I've always done for a living which is practice law, so it irks me to see anybody's reputation run down over that kind of thing (fourth hand hearsay that everyone in the supposed chain has denied). He wasn't a coach I wanted at the time though, even though the guy we got wasn't much better, at least he was an unknown. It seemed right off that Schiano would be a bad fit in the SEC.

Were you one of the legal minds waxing eloquently that UT was going to have to pay off Schiano because of the (mostly signed) MOU?

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Were you one of the legal minds waxing eloquently that UT was going to have to pay off Schiano because of the (mostly signed) MOU?

I was not.

 

[butchna]

I was not.

Genuinely asking without knowing the answer. It was doubly annoying on here as well as VQ.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Genuinely asking without knowing the answer. It was doubly annoying on here as well as VQ.

No problem at all. I was not in this case, I always thought among other things, there would be a good argument on our behalf that any agreement between Schiano and Currie wasn't entered into with due authority on our end because hell we fired Currie right after.

 

[VolNExile]

My opinion is colored by what I've always done for a living which is practice law, so it irks me to see anybody's reputation run down over that kind of thing (fourth hand hearsay that everyone in the supposed chain has denied). He wasn't a coach I wanted at the time though, even though the guy we got wasn't much better, at least he was an unknown. It seemed right off that Schiano would be a bad fit in the SEC.

I agree with this in principle, and his record ought to have been enough.

But since you practice law, you are familiar with how those who are powerless (or perceived as so) get crap dumped on them every day and are expected to hush up about it. It's pretty obvious that going with fairness nearly always doesn't work, or at least didn't work during Jimmy Haslam's death grip on the AD and the University itself, so sometimes you just have to pull out everything you've got. The fans rose up in protest, and if they grabbed a few handfuls of misplaced dung along the way, I really can't blame them. Enough already! -and sympathies to Cleveland Browns fans. Schiano seems to have soldiered on OK, at least personally.

 

[SpookyAction]

I agree with this in principle, and his record ought to have been enough.

But since you practice law, you are familiar with how those who are powerless (or perceived as so) get crap dumped on them every day and are expected to hush up about it. It's pretty obvious that going with fairness nearly always doesn't work, or at least didn't work during Jimmy Haslam's death grip on the AD and the University itself, so sometimes you just have to pull out everything you've got. The fans rose up in protest, and if they grabbed a few handfuls of misplaced dung along the way, I really can't blame them. Enough already! -and sympathies to Cleveland Browns fans. Schiano seems to have soldiered on OK, at least personally.

I 100% agree with your rabble-rousing headspace concerning Schiano's hire, but justifying character assassination based on acknowledged untruths is further than I will go.
I am thrilled all of us played a part in stopping the hire, but ...
I regret the lies spread by our fans about Schiano's past (false) actions.
It made us, as a whole, no better than the fanbases we hate most.

 

[VolNExile]

I 100% agree with your rabble-rousing headspace concerning Schiano's hire, but justifying character assassination based on acknowledged untruths is further than I will go.
I am thrilled all of us played a part in stopping the hire, but ...
I regret the lies spread by our fans about Schiano's past (false) actions.
It made us, as a whole, no better than the fanbases we hate most.

Ok, I can see that. And there did seem to be two camps - the "he's a crappy coach", and the "associated kinda-sorta with pedophilia" tar-and-feather crowd.)

In a perfect world, I agree that the "crappy coach" crowd should have disavowed the "tar-and-feather" crowd.

There wasn't a ton of time for nuance, and national media sure wasn't ready to hear its, as they were already bugling the ignorant redneck line. Meanwhile, we were trying to stand up for maintaining (recovering) a UT football tradition.

I guess that (again) in a perfect world, I would have wanted to have been saying, "Well actually, we don't really believe that he was in the showers, but we don't want him here because he can't coach his way out of a paper bag," but who would have listened? The media had already made up their minds, the tar-and-feather crowd had made up THEIR minds, both were yelling, and who was left to listen?

 

[VOLnMiami]

I absolutely hated how our previous admins felt the need to hire crappy coaches and try to sell them to the fans like they were a big deal...I hated the Dooley hire with a passion and wasn't shy about it, The jones hire I gave a chance because he didn't do too badly at Cincy but it was obvious Josh Dobbs was the reason he stayed around for so long and then the attempted hire of that worthless POS Schiano, i was never more proud that our fans stood up to keep him away from our program....And then the worse hire in my lifetime with Jeremy Pruitt...I made me sick to my stomach that Fulmer of all people hired this bozo who was a Bama fan all along and trusted him to bring our program back and he failed horribly...You put lipstick on a pig and its still a pig and they were serving up cow manure and telling us it was ice cream...Danny White frightened me with some of the coaches he was looking at because it honestly did not feel right and I swear I was thinking to myself why doesn't he go and hire Heupal from UCF, I loved watching his offense while he was there and thought it would be a good hire if he could recruit and man was i happy when they did hire him and just look what he has done with so little...I didn't expect the world but man he really surpassed my expectation with what he has done so far...I am finally feeling like we can once again win any game with him as our coach...I hope he is here for a very long time.

 

[SpookyAction]

Ok, I can see that. And there did seem to be two camps - the "he's a crappy coach", and the "associated kinda-sorta with pedophilia" tar-and-feather crowd.)

In a perfect world, I agree that the "crappy coach" crowd should have disavowed the "tar-and-feather" crowd.

There wasn't a ton of time for nuance, and national media sure wasn't ready to hear its, as they were already bugling the ignorant redneck line. Meanwhile, we were trying to stand up for maintaining (recovering) a UT football tradition.

I guess that (again) in a perfect world, I would have wanted to have been saying, "Well actually, we don't really believe that he was in the showers, but we don't want him here because he can't coach his way out of a paper bag," but who would have listened? The media had already made up their minds, the tar-and-feather crowd had made up THEIR minds, both were yelling, and who was left to listen?

I agree with everything you said.
It was a scummy tactic by some of the fanbase.

I admit it. I, personally, was extremely open to those accusations because of my visceral reaction to the Schiano announcement. I was reading about those PSU connections as fast as I could, and at that time, there were mainly the accusations. That was about all that was out there on websites.

Tom Bradley, DC at UCLA, had not yet publicly cleared Schianoo of knowing anything.

It is a stain on our fanbase. I am usually extremely proud of Vol fans, But not this.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

I agree with everything you said.
It was a scummy tactic by some of the fanbase.

I admit it. I, personally, was extremely open to those accusations because of my visceral reaction to the Schiano announcement. I was reading about those PSU connections as fast as I could, and at that time, there were mainly the accusations. That was about all that was out there on websites.

Tom Bradley, DC at UCLA, had not yet publicly cleared Schianoo of knowing anything.

It is a stain on our fanbase. I am usually extremely proud of Vol fans, But not this.

I don't think our fanbase in particular acted any different than any other would, it's just we have a lot of people among the American public and our fanbase is sadly included in that who will freely disregard principles of due process and fairness when it suits them, and that's always dangerous and ultimately, Anti-American. In short, I don't think it's an indictment of us but more of our current climate in America as a whole, you see it on different subjects all across the country, every day. The truth is what we should seek, wherever it leads. In Schiano's case, he was not a good fit, and our fanbase rightly rebelled at the idea of his being hired, but tarring him with the PSU stuff was unfair and unfounded if you looked into it.

 

[05_never_again]

Vol fans were certainly always right not to want him as coach, but connecting him to Jerry Sandusky was not fair. There was like some fourth hand hearsay that he might have known something, which every link in the chain of that hearsay went under oath and said they never discussed it with Schiano, so it's pretty clear there was nothing there. Anybody here would be rightly outraged if a similar accusation was made against you under those circumstances. Right is right.

The tenuous connecting to Sandusky was done because "He ain't good enough to be our coach!" isn't very convincing.

If Gruden, or some other coach higher on people's lists had the same connection, you wouldn't have heard a peep about it. That moment is what #VolTwitter is most famous for, and brought it to national prominence, but it isn't its finest moment. There is no doubt in my mind Schiano would have been a bad fit here, but the stated reason for opposing his hire was disingenuous.

 

[butchna]

So we’re ultimately right but not “fair”.. I’ll take it!

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

The tenuous connecting to Sandusky was done because "He ain't good enough to be our coach!" isn't very convincing.

If Gruden, or some other coach higher on people's lists had the same connection, you wouldn't have heard a peep about it. That moment is what #VolTwitter is most famous for, and brought it to national prominence, but it isn't its finest moment. There is no doubt in my mind Schiano would have been a bad fit here, but the stated reason for opposing his hire was disingenuous.

Quite a number of people did oppose his putative hire because he wasn't a good fit for Tennessee, not everybody brought in the bogus Penn State stuff.

 

[05_never_again]

Quite a number of people did oppose his putative hire because he wasn't a good fit for Tennessee, not everybody brought in the bogus Penn State stuff.

Oh I know they did, including myself.

All I'm saying is that, IMO, the folks who were bringing the Penn St stuff into it were doing so not because they genuinely thought he actually had something to do with it, but because they didn't think he was a good coach. It was a way to smear him and try to block the hire, because "he isn't a good coach" wasn't going to change Currie/Davenport's mind. But if you claim that you're against his hiring because he covered up child rape, and get state senators to also say that, well...

If Gruden had the same connection to Penn St that Schiano did, you wouldn't have heard a peep from those same people about it.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Oh I know they did, including myself.

All I'm saying is that, IMO, the folks who were bringing the Penn St stuff into it were doing so not because they genuinely thought he actually had something to do with it, but because they didn't think he was a good coach. It was a way to smear him and try to block the hire, because "he isn't a good coach" wasn't going to change Currie/Davenport's mind. But if you claim that you're against his hiring because he covered up child rape, and get state senators to also say that, well...

If Gruden had the same connection to Penn St that Schiano did, you wouldn't have heard a peep from those same people about it.

I think I was the first person in the thread to say the PSU related attacks were unfair, so I agree.