School Vouchers, Parental Choice, Homeschooling Surge & Public Education Funding

#27
#27
luthervol said:
A very short and simplified answer.......the kids with involved parents who value education all end up in the same schools and the kids who are already disadvantaged end up in the schools that those other kids left.
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...and I can see why that would be a problem. But why is it the involved parents’ job to elevate a bad school?
 
#28
#28
GAVol said:
...and I can see why that would be a problem. But why is it the involved parents’ job to elevate a bad school?
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It's the price of living in a society. They live in that district. It's their responsibility to make the area better.
 
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#30
#30
GAVol said:
Can't those kids do more for society by becoming well educated? Are the low achievers really helped by the mere presence of other students?
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I don't buy into the notion that there are schools where a student cannot receive a good education. The lower the percentage of students in a school who actually value education, the harder it becomes for those that do.
 
#31
#31
Here is the problem with school vouchers: schools have two dates that are used to determine a school's total school enrollment and those dates are usually one in the Fall and one in the Spring. So if student A is at school B for August and September but that student leaves before the audit date in the Fall then school B gets zero funding for that student even though he or she has been enrolled in that school for two months. The same situation could occur in the Spring as well. Schools are funded based upon student enrollment on those two key dates, they aren't just given a certain amount of money arbitrarily for each student on the first day of school that is supposed to cover expenses for that student for the academic year. Schools are given a certain amount of money to hire x amount of teachers based off of projected student enrollment for the year. They aren't just fully staffed simply because a building is there so if 30% of the students leave a school and use their voucher to go to a private school then that funding is permanently with that private school for that year. If that same student decides to disenroll at that private school and return to public school then he or she will be returning to a school that will not have the staffing to meet that student's needs unless that student happened to enrolled long enough to be counted on one of those key attendance audit dates. I am all for school choice but until states come up with a better funding mechanism it will not work and it will disproportionately impact high poverty schools because simple because of the nature of the beast those schools face the most challenges therefore they would lose the most students. The students that don't have the means to take advantage of school choice which are generally disabled students because private schools simply do not have the infrastructure to handle a large number of disabled students or the additional funding to meet those needs will be greatly impacted.
 
#33
#33
luthervol said:
I don't buy into the notion that there are schools where a student cannot receive a good education. The lower the percentage of students in a school who actually value education, the harder it becomes for those that do.
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There aren't, education is what you want it to be. If you want to learn in class and participate, you will. If you don't want to learn, and disrupt others you aren't going to gain much from it.
 
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#35
#35
luthervol said:
A very short and simplified answer.......the kids with involved parents who value education all end up in the same schools and the kids who are already disadvantaged end up in the schools that those other kids left.
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Wait, explain that to me very slowly.

You said that the kids with involved parents will end up in the same schools they are in. Meaning that they will not move.

But then you say that the disadvantaged kids will end up filling the void left by those advantaged kids... the same kids you just said wouldn't leave. Which means there are no voids/vacancies.

I'm thoroughly confused.
 
#38
#38
landscapingvol said:
Here is the problem with school vouchers: schools have two dates that are used to determine a school's total school enrollment and those dates are usually one in the Fall and one in the Spring. So if student A is at school B for August and September but that student leaves before the audit date in the Fall then school B gets zero funding for that student even though he or she has been enrolled in that school for two months. The same situation could occur in the Spring as well. Schools are funded based upon student enrollment on those two key dates, they aren't just given a certain amount of money arbitrarily for each student on the first day of school that is supposed to cover expenses for that student for the academic year. Schools are given a certain amount of money to hire x amount of teachers based off of projected student enrollment for the year. They aren't just fully staffed simply because a building is there so if 30% of the students leave a school and use their voucher to go to a private school then that funding is permanently with that private school for that year. If that same student decides to disenroll at that private school and return to public school then he or she will be returning to a school that will not have the staffing to meet that student's needs unless that student happened to enrolled long enough to be counted on one of those key attendance audit dates. I am all for school choice but until states come up with a better funding mechanism it will not work and it will disproportionately impact high poverty schools because simple because of the nature of the beast those schools face the most challenges therefore they would lose the most students. The students that don't have the means to take advantage of school choice which are generally disabled students because private schools simply do not have the infrastructure to handle a large number of disabled students or the additional funding to meet those needs will be greatly impacted.
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So wait, you mean to tell me that your main objection with school vouchers is this particular one off scenario of a kids enrolling in a private school and then two months later leaving and wanting to come back to a public school? How often does that even happen?
 
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#42
#42
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wait, explain that to me very slowly.

You said that the kids with involved parents will end up in the same schools they are in. Meaning that they will not move.

But then you say that the disadvantaged kids will end up filling the void left by those advantaged kids... the same kids you just said wouldn't leave. Which means there are no voids/vacancies.

I'm thoroughly confused.
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I didn't state myself clearly.
The kids with involved parents will all end up together in the same good schools.
The schools that are left will be filled with kids who are already disadvantaged through no fault of their own due to less involved parenting.
You also have issues of schools reaching max capacity and who gets in and who does not.
 
#43
#43
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wait, it is my responsibility to not only raise and educate my kids, but also raise and educate other peoples' kids?
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Are you any good at it? If so then yes most people think you need to educate and nurture their kids too.
 
#47
#47
luthervol said:
That virtual learning increases the gap between the haves and the have nots.

How hard would it have been to click back to the post to which I agreed?
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I didn't see what you were replying to. There were several posts before yours.

You do know there is a "Reply" button, right?
 
#48
#48
luthervol said:
I didn't state myself clearly.
The kids with involved parents will all end up together in the same good schools.
The schools that are left will be filled with kids who are already disadvantaged through no fault of their own due to less involved parenting.
You also have issues of schools reaching max capacity and who gets in and who does not.
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Well, if there are schools that are reaching maximum capacity, that opens an opportunity for either the private sector to jump in or for the other public schools to compete for that voucher revenue.

But to the first part of your statement, you have children that are in schools right now that come from homes with involved parents. Why suddenly would these parents up and remove these children from those very schools once they get a voucher?
 
#49
#49
luthervol said:
That virtual learning increases the gap between the haves and the have nots.
How hard would it have been to click back to the post to which I agreed?
Click to expand...
Can you make your comment above make sense with what you posted below? Seems to me that you have inadvertently figured out a solution to overcrowded good schools with online learning...

luthervol said:
I didn't state myself clearly.
The kids with involved parents will all end up together in the same good schools.
The schools that are left will be filled with kids who are already disadvantaged through no fault of their own due to less involved parenting.
You also have issues of schools reaching max capacity and who gets in and who does not.
Click to expand...
 
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#50
#50
luthervol said:
There will always be haves and have nots. The issue is do we take steps to lessen the gap and the numbers on the extremes or do we take steps that will make those things greater.
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Do the steps taken reduce the opportunities of the haves? When everyone is special..... no one is
 
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