Science and Religion: Creationism/Evolution Thread

#601
#601
rjd970 said:
Interesting.

What if they said they "know" it because it says it in the Bible, and they cite chapter and verse. The problem with assumptions in these discussions is generally they go unrecognized by those doing the assuming, while plainly obvious to everyone else.
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It isn't there, there may be at best a partial time line but for them to pretend they can count back to creation is silly.

I believe because of my own soul searching and it has brought me faith. No assumptions needed.
 
#602
#602
KB5252 said:
It isn't there, there may be at best a partial time line but for them to pretend they can count back to creation is silly.

I believe because of my own soul searching and it has brought me faith. No assumptions needed.
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this is the kinda of response i can respect
 
#603
#603
Nash270 said:
+1 when i use to attend church regularly, my preacher never taught a literal translation. I may be in a very small minority but I respect the God works in mysterious ways argument.

But I am disgusted when I hear people speaking in absolutes (such as "we know the earth is X years old). Science only claims to have the best guess, so the speak. Anyone claiming to have absolute answers on the basis of Anything IMO knows absolutely nothing...
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Woot! Measuring the half-life decay rate of the materials that make up the earth's core
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#604
#604
And I believe, at best, we have first hand accounts of what Jesus did and said, but no account from his own hand. I have to assume the four Gospels got it right. But for us to pretend that those were Jesus' actual words, and that he actually considered himself the son of God is silly.

See how I did that?

Somebody else can just as easily say that through their own soul searching they believe the bible to be the inerrant word of God.

To me, this is the crux of this whole belief/faith/religion paradigm. What looks completely ridiculous to one, is completely reasonable to another and there is no real way to argue it because it is all based on personal feelings/faith/beliefs/assumptions....whatever you want to call it. Without clear reasoning, backed by evidence, anybody can say anything and not know how ridiculous they really sound.

On a very basic, fundamental level, all religions throughout history are indistinguishable in this regard.
 
#606
#606
rjd970 said:
And I believe, at best, we have first hand accounts of what Jesus did and said, but no account from his own hand. I have to assume the four Gospels got it right. But for us to pretend that those were Jesus' actual words, and that he actually considered himself the son of God is silly.

See how I did that?

Somebody else can just as easily say that through their own soul searching they believe the bible to be the inerrant word of God.

To me, this is the crux of this whole belief/faith/religion paradigm. What looks completely ridiculous to one, is completely reasonable to another and there is no real way to argue it because it is all based on personal feelings/faith/beliefs/assumptions....whatever you want to call it. Without clear reasoning, backed by evidence, anybody can say anything and not know how ridiculous they really sound.

On a very basic, fundamental level, all religions throughout history are indistinguishable in this regard.
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You were at least being somewhat reasonable until you included that statement. I don't find anything ridiculous about believing the testimony and written word of multiple eye witnesses... among many other facts included in the Bible. However, if it makes you feel better by thinking others are ridiculous then I guess that's how some people get their enjoyment.

I suppose you also hang out at the malls in December and tell all the 5 year olds that Santa doesn't really exist... just because it makes you feel better.
 
#607
#607
IBlvNTmWrk said:
You were at least being somewhat reasonable until you included that statement. I don't find anything ridiculous about believing the testimony and written word of multiple eye witnesses... among many other facts included in the Bible. However, if it makes you feel better by thinking others are ridiculous then I guess that's how some people get their enjoyment.

I suppose you also hang out at the malls in December and tell all the 5 year olds that Santa doesn't really exist... just because it makes you feel better.
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But, tell him that believing in evolution is silly and watch how pissed off he gets.
 
#609
#609
Nash270 said:
Well some things are easier to disprove than others. But a distance in space and the almost constant speed of light? Really?

Even if the distance is WAY off, and a black hole is distorting and speeding the light up, its still hard to imagine getting that number back to around 6k years.
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Well I tend to agree with you if perhaps for different reasons.

I only mentioned it because Voldad made the ignorant statement that the Bible says the Earth is only 2k years old and I said; "Not true." (evidently he has never read much of the Good Book.)

Then Volinmn said; "8k, right?" and so I answered by giving the 6k+ number, believed by some, and how that number is derived from counting the years listed for the patriarchs from Adam to Jesus and that is about 4k years.

The Bible also says; "To God a thousand years can be just as one day or one day can be as a thousand years."

I have no problem between the Bible and science, there is plenty no one understands about either or both.

Personally I don't think everything began with Adam and Eve nor do I put much stock in the big bang theory either, although I like the TV show.

Remember also I mentioned Melchisedek and the Bible said he and his people had no beginning and no end.

It doesn't say he was 6k years old.
 
#610
#610
rjd970 said:
And I believe, at best, we have first hand accounts of what Jesus did and said, but no account from his own hand. I have to assume the four Gospels got it right......
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Not that this will change matters any, but Christians do have questions. And the question of the validity of the Bible - including the gospels - is addressed in this verse.

John 14:26 (KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Like I say, it may not be an acceptable answer to you, but it works for me.
 
#611
#611
Where this discussion always gets interesting to me is when those who believe begin to separate into two camps......those who believe the bible is the literal, inerrant word of god and those who believe it isn't designed to be taken absolutely literally.
 
#612
#612
VolInMn said:
Where this discussion always gets interesting to me is when those who believe begin to separate into two camps......those who believe the bible is the literal, inerrant word of god and those who believe it isn't designed to be taken absolutely literally.
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In what way is it interesting to you?
 
#614
#614
rjd970 said:
And I believe, at best, we have first hand accounts of what Jesus did and said, but no account from his own hand. I have to assume the four Gospels got it right. But for us to pretend that those were Jesus' actual words, and that he actually considered himself the son of God is silly.

See how I did that?

Somebody else can just as easily say that through their own soul searching they believe the bible to be the inerrant word of God.

Absolutely, perhaps using the word silly was too much, I should have simply said that my own understanding and faith leads me to believe it is less likely. It's just my opinion.

To me, this is the crux of this whole belief/faith/religion paradigm. What looks completely ridiculous to one, is completely reasonable to another and there is no real way to argue it because it is all based on personal feelings/faith/beliefs/assumptions....whatever you want to call it. Without clear reasoning, backed by evidence, anybody can say anything and not know how ridiculous they really sound.

This is equally true for those who don't believe as well.

On a very basic, fundamental level, all religions throughout history are indistinguishable in this regard.
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It does not sound reasonable to you because in your view science does a good enough job of explaining the universe to meet your needs, even though there are great holes science cannot even begin to address. Science and religion are certainly separate lines of thought but one does not discount the other in my views. The way you offer it up science is an alternative way to explain and study what is around us. I don't see science the same way you do, you see science as dispelling the myth of religion and deist ideas. In my view it hasn't touched on the idea of religion and certainly hasn't offered up any reason for me to have doubt in my faith. The two aren't at odds in my view.
 
#615
#615
VolInMn said:
I'm fascinated by theology in general, and particularly how we as humans can make of something what we will but still believe it so completely and wholly.
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That has always been the case, it is a part of human nature. We will believe in our traditional values until something or someone comes along and shows us a better way. It may not happen overnight but good ideas take root and spread and those old ideas are eventually cast aside.

If science can one day explain some of the basic answers humans have about themselves and the world around them then things will change. As of yet science hasn't gotten to that point and I'm not sure it ever will. We are all going on assumption (both scientific and religious) if you take as step back and look at it objectively.
 
#616
#616
KB5252 said:
It does not sound reasonable to you because in your view science does a good enough job of explaining the universe to meet your needs, even though there are great holes science cannot even begin to address. Science and religion are certainly separate lines of thought but one does not discount the other in my views. The way you offer it up science is an alternative way to explain and study what is around us. I don't see science the same way you do, you see science as dispelling the myth of religion and deist ideas. In my view it hasn't touched on the idea of religion and certainly hasn't offered up any reason for me to have doubt in my faith. The two aren't at odds in my view.
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+1

:hi:
 
#617
#617
KB5252 said:
It does not sound reasonable to you because in your view science does a good enough job of explaining the universe to meet your needs, even though there are great holes science cannot even begin to address. Science and religion are certainly separate lines of thought but one does not discount the other in my views. The way you offer it up science is an alternative way to explain and study what is around us. I don't see science the same way you do, you see science as dispelling the myth of religion and deist ideas. In my view it hasn't touched on the idea of religion and certainly hasn't offered up any reason for me to have doubt in my faith. The two aren't at odds in my view.
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your view is the view I held for most of my life, perhaps i turned further away from religion due to never having had a event that convenience me there was a god.

Trust me when I saw i wish a god existed maybe something in my life will convince me someday. Until then all my experiences point to man having more in common with monkeys lol
 
#618
#618
Nash270 said:
your view is the view I held for most of my life, perhaps i turned further away from religion due to never having had a event that convenience me there was a god.

Trust me when I saw i wish a god existed maybe something in my life will convince me someday. Until then all my experiences point to man having more in common with monkeys lol
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Just a curious question, do you have children? Thats a pretty good event.
 
#619
#619
This make shock you but atheists make babies as well (myself included).
 
#623
#623
To put my two cents in....

I try not to view the creation v. evolution issue as science v. religion. As an atheist/agnostic myself (I have not yet decided, but lean more atheist), its more of one faith v. another faith. By that, I mean science isn't totally conclusive, as someone said earlier, their are holes in some scientific theories on how the earth came to exist along with all the creatures on it. Its something more complicated and so ancient we will never know. I have faith that the earth got here somehow, someway, that I will never know, but I do know that it wasn't by a divine being. Of course, no one will ever really actually know, hence it being faith.
 
#624
#624
seanofthedead86 said:
To put my two cents in....

I try not to view the creation v. evolution issue as science v. religion. As an atheist/agnostic myself (I have not yet decided, but lean more atheist), its more of one faith v. another faith. By that, I mean science isn't totally conclusive, as someone said earlier, their are holes in some scientific theories on how the earth came to exist along with all the creatures on it. Its something more complicated and so ancient we will never know. I have faith that the earth got here somehow, someway, that I will never know, but I do know that it wasn't by a divine being. Of course, no one will ever really actually know, hence it being faith.
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It's very simple: You either buy into what science DOES tell us (and accept what it doesn't) or accept what religion tells you (and rationalize what it didn't).
 
#625
#625
Oldvol75 said:
Will the child get to make up its on mind?
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Well that's an interesting question,

and yet how many times too though do parents impose their own beliefs - on both issues and religion - upon their child rather than at some point in said child's life letting the child chose for themselves?
 
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