Scientists find Missing Link

#26
#26
The discovery has little bearing on a separate paleontological debate centering on the identity of a common ancestor of chimps and humans, which could have lived about six million years ago and still hasn't been found. That gap in the evolution story is colloquially referred to as the "missing link" controversy. In reality, though, all gaps in the fossil record are technically "missing links" until filled in, and many scientists say the term is meaningless.
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"Missing link" is just a pseudo-intellectual term non-scientists like to throw around to make themselves seem important.
 
#27
#27
Vols378 said:
I do not believe you can believe in evolution and God. There is a hugh contradiction.
The Book of Genesis, Chapter 1 Verse 1 states : In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Verse 27 states : So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
If anyone believes the Bible, it is impossible to believe in evolution.

I asked the question of how it all began, because for anything to evolve, it has to evolve from something.

As I stated in my original post. I do not want to start an argument. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I am just curious as to exactly what an evolutionist believes. If I have offended anyone, I do apologize.
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Why?
 
#28
#28
rjd970 said:
Evolution doesn't even pretend to answer biogenesis questions. It only deals with the process that took over after life started.

One can believe in evolution, and believe in a creator, God, or nothing and not have any contradictions.

In short, I don't understand why you are asking the question of how it all began to those who believe in evolution.
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I hate it when we agree!

:sick:
 
#30
#30
Vols378 said:
I would think it's been asked many times..
Can you answer it ? Just curious.
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I, in fact, can give you my answer. It's the same problem that a theist runs into (which I guess I am) in that in common thinking, there has to be a cause for every effect. While an atheist my get a little lock-lipped at the question of what caused the big bang, and where that proto-matter came from, if a theist is asked where God came from he either

a) shouts "blasphemy!" and avoids the question
b) says he always is and was.

more on option (b) in a second.

Option (a) is as intellectually dishonest as an atheist's response of there being "nothing" before the big bang.

So both belief systems share a common problem, if one honestly looks at it. It's a problem of causality and time. For me, both perspectives on this common problem lead to the thought that perhaps the human perception of time as being linear is the real issue. Judeo-Christianic tradition indicates that God is not a part of space-time as we know it, and thus creation isn't really "moving through time," but rather we perceive it is because our own consciousness is based on a linear cognition of events. That still leads to a "how did this set up of God and all his creation get here?" question, but one could argue with the above in mind that it is clearly delving into concepts the human mind isn't equipped to really fully grasp.

Now, how is that any different from an atheist's view of things? Leave evolution out of it for now, because evolution isn't about the creation of the universe, but rather about the origin of species. Let's look at an atheist's view of the origin of the universe. For them, the "Big Bang" is the key event that caused an ever expanding universe to come into existence. What became before the big bang? There are some theories that the "Big Bang" is actually a re-occurring event, and after billions and billions of years of expansion, the universe rubber bands back into a single proto-mass, and has another "Big Bang." There are also theories centering around the concept that for every bit of matter in the universe, there is a bit of antimatter. Thus, there isn't really anything at all, as it all cancels out, and explains how the "Big Bang" doesn't break the laws of physics. I am not a physicist, so I am just trying my best to explain things as I understand them.

The point is, both come back to that same problem of, "how did this set up come about?" Even assuming that time isn't really linear like we perceive it, it is the same problem. There is no reason for someone to get high and mighty about their belief structure over another, because they all ultimately come to the exact same issues of unknown.
 
#31
#31
The problem with regressing it back to God and saying "God always is and was" is it is just as intellectually honest to say "The universe always is and was". Eventually it all regresses back to the unknown, and for somebody to challenge the atheist with the ultimate origin question, the thesist has to be able to answer where God came from.
 
#32
#32
rjd970 said:
The problem with regressing it back to God and saying "God always is and was" is it is just as intellectually honest to say "The universe always is and was". Eventually it all regresses back to the unknown, and for somebody to challenge the atheist with the ultimate origin question, the thesist has to be able to answer where God came from.
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Exactly.
 
#33
#33
vols4sure said:
Shouldn't there be plenty of fossils available that show the gradual bone development of monkey to man? I thought this was what was referred to as the missing link but I guess not.
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Not to mention they're looking for fossils that had to be preserved in tar or volcanic ash in order to make it the millions and millions of years between their gradual evolution and now.

Plenty of fossils? No. Any fossils? We're lucky to have found one. The statistical probability of them even making it this long, much less being discovered, is astronomical I'm sure.
 
#34
#34
DC Vol said:
Not to mention they're looking for fossils that had to be preserved in tar or volcanic ash in order to make it the millions and millions of years between their gradual evolution and now.

Plenty of fossils? No. Any fossils? We're lucky to have found one. The statistical probability of them even making it this long, much less being discovered, is astronomical I'm sure.
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But if the Earth was only 6,000 years old, that wouldn't be the case... Oh wait.
 
#35
#35
rjd970 said:
The problem with regressing it back to God and saying "God always is and was" is it is just as intellectually honest to say "The universe always is and was". Eventually it all regresses back to the unknown, and for somebody to challenge the atheist with the ultimate origin question, the thesist has to be able to answer where God came from.
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but, the problem is when it is stated there is a beginning is implicit in there being an end, which most scientists admittedly don't want to consider... Einstein included.
 
#37
#37
DC Vol said:
Then I guess those human fossils they've found that are 12,000 years old are just "test runs".
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Nah, carbon dating is just a bunch of crap. :crazy:

It's funny, because I look a sediment core that goes back 8,000 years every day, but i am attending a university where plenty of people around would say the samples I am researching don't exist.
 
#38
#38
why do the Creationists insist that God's concept of time is based on our own, very limited concept of time?

for all we know, the first "day" in Genesis could have taken, from a human perception, several billion years.
 
#39
#39
MG1968 said:
why do the Creationists insist that God's concept of time is based on our own, very limited concept of time?

for all we know, the first "day" in Genesis could have taken, from a human perception, several billion years.
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What is a day anyway, when there is no Earth revolving?
 
#40
#40
I look at it this way, no matter which camp you belong to we are all trying to seek the answers to a question that is so complicated it is beyond our realm of understanding. I believe in science and I believe in God. The two are not mutually exclusive for me. Although I am a Christian I don't think asking the questions about our origins is defying god. If he made human beings in his likeness he most certainly intended us to ask questions and seek the answers, it is simple human nature.
 
#43
#43
DC Vol said:
Not to mention they're looking for fossils that had to be preserved in tar or volcanic ash in order to make it the millions and millions of years between their gradual evolution and now.

Plenty of fossils? No. Any fossils? We're lucky to have found one. The statistical probability of them even making it this long, much less being discovered, is astronomical I'm sure.
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I am just asking questions. I really don't know much on the subject of evolution.

What type of time frame are we talking here. Is this post-dinosaurs? If so, why do we have plenty of dinosaur fossils but not humans or monkey fossils showing the development of humans from monkeys.

If it is pre-dinosaurs, why is there a gap where we are missing the fossils of whatever species humans evolved from that existed at the time of the dinosaurs.
 
#44
#44
KB5252 said:
I look at it this way, no matter which camp you belong to we are all trying to seek the answers to a question that is so complicated it is beyond our realm of understanding. I believe in science and I believe in God. The two are not mutually exclusive for me. Although I am a Christian I don't think asking the questions about our origins is defying god. If he made human beings in his likeness he most certainly intended us to ask questions and seek the answers, it is simple human nature.
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agreed. i have no idea what happened. anyone claiming differently is not thinking logically.
 
#45
#45
Vols378 said:
Why?
How can one believe in both God and evolution?

The Bible states that God created man. That rules out evolution.
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unless God actually looks like a monkey and we evolved from his true image into what we look like now :question:




(only kidding)
 
#46
#46
vols4sure said:
I am just asking questions. I really don't know much on the subject of evolution.

What type of time frame are we talking here. Is this post-dinosaurs? If so, why do we have plenty of dinosaur fossils but not humans or monkey fossils showing the development of humans from monkeys.

If it is pre-dinosaurs, why is there a gap where we are missing the fossils of whatever species humans evolved from that existed at the time of the dinosaurs.
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Way way post dinosaurs. We have "plenty" of fossils of dinosaurs because they were the dominant type of animal life on Earth, filling all the ecological niches that are now filled by mammals, reptiles, birds, and even fish for over a hundred million years. they went extinct 65 million years ago. Humans have only been around a couple hundred thousand years. The odds of a particular lineage being preserved is much less than "any random living thing walking around the Earth" being preserved alone, but even less when you factor in the much much smaller window of time.
 
#47
#47
IPorange said:
What is a day anyway, when there is no Earth revolving?
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Not to mention that the Earth is spinning slower than it was 6,000 years ago. (Rate of ~1/10 second per 5,000 years). So in roughly 5 million years it will have officially taken God 3 minutes less to create the world.

Also: Layman's terms. I'm sure if God had attempted to explain what we know vaguely (if any understanding at all) as astronomical physics Moses probably would have suffered an aneurysm.
 
#48
#48
Vols378 said:
I do not believe you can believe in evolution and God. There is a hugh contradiction.
The Book of Genesis, Chapter 1 Verse 1 states : In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Verse 27 states : So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.If anyone believes the Bible, it is impossible to believe in evolution.

I asked the question of how it all began, because for anything to evolve, it has to evolve from something.

As I stated in my original post. I do not want to start an argument. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I am just curious as to exactly what an evolutionist believes. If I have offended anyone, I do apologize.
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Do you literally believe that humans on earth look like God?

Or could it be that "in the image" means a molecule. And that molecule over thousands of years on earth evolved in this environment into a humans?
 
#49
#49
Vols378 said:
Why?
How can one believe in both God and evolution?

The Bible states that God created man. That rules out evolution.
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You can believe in God without taking the Bible as the word-for-word truth on the origination of the Universe.
 
#50
#50
vols4sure said:
I am just asking questions. I really don't know much on the subject of evolution.

What type of time frame are we talking here. Is this post-dinosaurs? If so, why do we have plenty of dinosaur fossils but not humans or monkey fossils showing the development of humans from monkeys.

If it is pre-dinosaurs, why is there a gap where we are missing the fossils of whatever species humans evolved from that existed at the time of the dinosaurs.
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we have how many dino fossils compared to the number that actually lived on earth? Then compare that to trying to find a fossil from a very specific animal that is only 1.5ft tall somewhere on the planet that is preserved enough to study.
 
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