Scott Frost

[BeardedVol]

One of my biggest pet peeves with stats is when people trot out the "they were 12th in the country in PPG" and stuff like that. This isn't the NFL where you have a relatively small number of relatively even matched teams.

Those national rankings of stats like PPG, total offense, etc. can easily get padded in college by rolling up tons of points and yards against garbage teams, which most schools are going to play 3-5 of those kinds of games per year. It totally skews the average and is not factoring in SoS at all.

If people want to pump up Heupel, I personally wouldn't talk about his Mizzou offensive stats.

I mean, I wouldn't judge Huepel one way or the other based on what he did as an OC at Missouri 5 years ago, but I've seen several people throw out his time there, as proof that his offensive schemes will definitely work in the SEC, and reality just doesn't support that conclusion.

One thing that Heupel's offense has been consistent on at every stop, is putting up a fair number of points against bad teams, but being relatively average in when it comes to scoring against "good" teams. In his time at UCF, of the 28 wins he amassed there, only 10 of their opponents ended the season with winning records. His offense will probably make for much more entertaining football at UT compared to Pruitt's miserable brand of play, but I don't think you can look at those numbers and assume that Heupel is going to replicate that UCF-level of scoring in conference games unless it's Vandy.

 

[05_never_again]

I mean, I wouldn't judge Huepel one way or the other based on what he did as an OC at Missouri 5 years ago, but I've seen several people throw out his time there, as proof that his offensive schemes will definitely work in the SEC, and reality just doesn't support that conclusion.

One thing that Heupel's offense has been consistent on at every stop, is putting up a fair number of points against bad teams, but being relatively average in when it comes to scoring against "good" teams. In his time at UCF, of the 28 wins he amassed there, only 10 of their opponents ended the season with winning records. His offense will probably make for much more entertaining football at UT compared to Pruitt's miserable brand of play, but I don't think you can look at those numbers and assume that Heupel is going to replicate that UCF-level of scoring in conference games unless it's Vandy.

I am kind of surprised more people do not look to his time at Oklahoma as co-OC, where he was the playcaller. Their offense was pretty good from 2011-13, but then he was fired after a subpar (by their standards) 2014 season. In quite a few of those losses, not only did their defense get torched but the point output was pretty low too.

 

[BeardedVol]

I am kind of surprised more people do not look to his time at Oklahoma as co-OC, where he was the playcaller. Their offense was pretty good from 2011-13, but then he was fired after a subpar (by their standards) 2014 season. In quite a few of those losses, not only did their defense get torched but the point output was pretty low too.

I just hope his offense isn't the equivalent of a 68' MGB where you needed the perfect weather, perfect road, and perfect karma to make it out and back without something going wonky on it, because he most likely will not see the perfect combination of recruiting, development, and schedule while he's at UT.

 

[05_never_again]

I just hope his offense isn't the equivalent of a 68' MGB where you needed the perfect weather, perfect road, and perfect karma to make it out and back without something going wonky on it, because he most likely will not see the perfect combination of recruiting, development, and schedule while he's at UT.

I really hope that, even if it is to a limited extent, he's able to get at least the sum of the parts out of his squads. Because we haven't had a coach that has been able to do that since probably Kiffin. He better be the polar opposite of Beldar, who was saying he needed 25 new players about 5 games into his tenure here.

 

[Hairy Vols]

I didn't imply anything, just posted the stats. You can talk about the ranking all day long, but if it doesn't result in a winning record, then what's the point?

The only teams that offense scored points on where the terrible SEC teams Missouri played, and the OOC pushovers on their schedule.

It's not hard to get a decent ranking for your offense if you are padding stats by running up ~70 points on the likes of Missouri State and Idaho, but against SEC competition, it was average to subpar at best except against the dregs of the conference that year.

Putting up over 40 points vs HALF of your SEC opponents is not something that to take lightly. I can point out from the schedule you posted alone he had more success that one year, than Pruitt did his entire time here... And let me tell ya something, its not even close.

There is a reason the offense regressed so much after he left, there is a reason he was offered another head coaching job... He puts together good offenses. Any team that can put up over 40 on HALF of their SEC opponents is a good offense.

If you like I can break out the stats of where that offense finished during his time there within the SEC?

 

[stolitonic]

There is a reason the offense regressed so much after he left, there is a reason he was offered another head coaching job... He puts together good offenses. Any team that can put up over 40 on HALF of their SEC opponents is a good offense.

I am undecided on CJH at this point. I no doubt want him-and UT to succeed, but I am just not sure YET.

Putting up 40 on half the SEC teams they played is something that sounds great-until you actually think about it for a minute.

Mizzou is in the East so they get to play Candy every year. Some of those UT D's that Botch trotted out were no world beaters. Didn't we win a game one of those years against them like 55-42 or something like that? Point being they scored a bunch sure, but apparently couldn't keep the Little Sisters of the Poor out of the end zone.

Kentucky was like 2-6,4-4, and 4-4 in the SEc when CjH was at Mizzou.

Georgia and Florida were both down for the first couple of years he was there also.

I haven't looked at the cross divisional play, but chances are they played Ole Miss or Arky one of those years when those programs were in the midst of a Chad Norris mistake and a Matt Luke being a caretaker.

By the way, still think Luke got screwed. Guy stepped into a horrible situation with the Freeze call girl scandal and still those teams were actually not horrible. They would have certainly boat raced the team Pruitt trotted out last year

 

[BeardedVol]

Putting up over 40 points vs HALF of your SEC opponents is not something that to take lightly. I can point out from the schedule you posted alone he had more success that one year, than Pruitt did his entire time here... And let me tell ya something, its not even close.

There is a reason the offense regressed so much after he left, there is a reason he was offered another head coaching job... He puts together good offenses. Any team that can put up over 40 on HALF of their SEC opponents is a good offense.

If you like I can break out the stats of where that offense finished during his time there within the SEC?

And of those 4 that he ran the score up on, 3 of the schools fired their HCs at the by the end of the season. UT, Arkansas, Florida, and Vandy were all terrible in 2017. 4-8, 4-8, 4-7, 5-7 were the SEC team' records that Missouri put up points on, because that's what Heupel's offense does consistently, puts up points on bad teams.

This idea that the performance of Missouri's offense in 2017, somehow substantiates this belief that Heupel's offense is going to run the conference ragged in 2021 and force every opponent to score as often as possible, just to keep up, is mindbogglingly laughable.

 

[Hairy Vols]

And of those 4 that he ran the score up on, 3 of the schools fired their HCs at the by the end of the season. UT, Arkansas, Florida, and Vandy were all terrible in 2017. 4-8, 4-8, 4-7, 5-7 were the SEC team' records that Missouri put up points on, because that's what Heupel's offense does consistently, puts up points on bad teams.

This idea that the performance of Missouri's offense in 2017, somehow substantiates this belief that Heupel's offense is going to run the conference ragged in 2021 and force every opponent to score as often as possible, just to keep up, is mindbogglingly laughable.

Two things. I never said he was going to "run the conference ragged" I'm clearly arguing against you that it has no value of his success in the SEC. Out of every coach we have hired since Johnny Majors, Phillip Fulmer included, he has the most complete resume from being a championship player, having a winning record as a head coach, running a successful offense in the SEC. I understand your pessimistic attitude. It's hard to hope for the best after the Vols losing so much, but if I ever got to your point of unwaivering pessimism... Well I might just find another hobby besides college sports, lol..

All joking aside friend let me get to my other point. You keep saying over and over and over that he "ran it up" on SEC schools. Sorry but I don't believe in "running up the score" if you want to stop a team you stop them. And if you can't that's on you. Especially when you are an SEC school. If you can't stop someone you deserve every point the opponent scores.

And I'll leave it at this.. I have no way to know if he will do well. Statistically speaking all coaches are more likely to fail than succeed so if you keep rooting for all the failing you will be more likely right than wrong...

But just like Nebraskas sure hire of First, Michigans sure hire of Harbaugh , and the list goes on. We have no way to know what will happen. But to go around the message board and put out all the negativity you have makes me wonder why is it even worth it? How is that fun? Idk.. different strokes I suppose.

 

[BeardedVol]

Two things. I never said he was going to "run the conference ragged" I'm clearly arguing against you that it has no value of his success in the SEC. Out of every coach we have hired since Johnny Majors, Phillip Fulmer included, he has the most complete resume from being a championship player, having a winning record as a head coach, running a successful offense in the SEC. I understand your pessimistic attitude. It's hard to hope for the best after the Vols losing so much, but if I ever got to your point of unwaivering pessimism... Well I might just find another hobby besides college sports, lol..

All joking aside friend let me get to my other point. You keep saying over and over and over that he "ran it up" on SEC schools. Sorry but I don't believe in "running up the score" if you want to stop a team you stop them. And if you can't that's on you. Especially when you are an SEC school. If you can't stop someone you deserve every point the opponent scores.

And I'll leave it at this.. I have no way to know if he will do well. Statistically speaking all coaches are more likely to fail than succeed so if you keep rooting for all the failing you will be more likely right than wrong...

But just like Nebraskas sure hire of First, Michigans sure hire of Harbaugh , and the list goes on. We have no way to know what will happen. But to go around the message board and put out all the negativity you have makes me wonder why is it even worth it? How is that fun? Idk.. different strokes I suppose.

So you can't make a coherent argument to support your original assertion, so first you back pedal, and then go full deflection by trying to characterize posting the actual historically accurate stats of his time at Missouri as "being negative"?

Classic....total classic.

 

[Hairy Vols]

So you can't make a coherent argument to support your original assertion, so first you back pedal, and then go full deflection by trying to characterize posting the actual historically accurate stats of his time at Missouri as "being negative"?

Classic....total classic.

I said Hupel had success at Missouri. That was my entire first post in this thread... His offense did have success. That point has been proven. You're the one dismissing success because he "ran it up" and the SEC teams he beat "weren't good enough."

So I literally have no idea what you're talking about lol. You've been watching to much Ben Shapiro bud.

The assumption I made about you may have been a little off topic. I've just noticed a pattern over the years you only seem to post negativity. Like nothing else. I just don't see how that could be fun for anyone. That's all I was trying to say lol.

And you posted the school records. Those are the team stats. Not the offensive stats. Why don't you post his offensive stats vs SEC schools while at Missouri and where he ranked in the SEC in total offense. I dare ya.

 

[BeardedVol]

I said Hupel had success at Missouri. That was my entire first post in this thread... His offense did have success. That point has been proven. You're the one dismissing success because he "ran it up" and the SEC teams he beat "weren't good enough."

So I literally have no idea what you're talking about lol. You've been watching to much Ben Shapiro bud.

The assumption I made about you may have been a little off topic. I've just noticed a pattern over the years you only seem to post negativity. Like nothing else. I just don't see how that could be fun for anyone. That's all I was trying to say lol.

And you posted the school records. Those are the team stats. Not the offensive stats. Why don't you post his offensive stats vs SEC schools while at Missouri and where he ranked in the SEC in total offense. I dare ya.

If you need to set the bar for "success" as low as breaking even in conference record to feel good about Heupel, that's on you, but in no way are these two seasons "successful" by the commonly understood definition of the word.

As to the rest of that nonsense, well, it's just that, deflective nonsense. Come back when you can actually articulate your position without trying to interject 'Ben Shapiro' (wtf), or your belief that factual accuracy is "being negative". Thanks for playing.

 

[05_never_again]

I said Hupel had success at Missouri. That was my entire first post in this thread... His offense did have success. That point has been proven. You're the one dismissing success because he "ran it up" and the SEC teams he beat "weren't good enough."

So I literally have no idea what you're talking about lol. You've been watching to much Ben Shapiro bud.

The assumption I made about you may have been a little off topic. I've just noticed a pattern over the years you only seem to post negativity. Like nothing else. I just don't see how that could be fun for anyone. That's all I was trying to say lol.

And you posted the school records. Those are the team stats. Not the offensive stats. Why don't you post his offensive stats vs SEC schools while at Missouri and where he ranked in the SEC in total offense. I dare ya.

You do have to admit though - when you look at the red rows in the schedules he attached there are a lot of low point totals for Mizzou in those games, no? The offense performed well in just a couple of those losses. When Mizzou lost games during those 2 seasons, it was usually because both their offense and defense were bad.

 

[Hairy Vols]

If you need to set the bar for "success" as low as breaking even in conference record to feel good about Heupel, that's on you, but in no way are these two seasons "successful" by the commonly understood definition of the word.

As to the rest of that nonsense, well, it's just that, deflective nonsense. Come back when you can actually articulate your position without trying to interject 'Ben Shapiro' (wtf), or your belief that factual accuracy is "being negative". Thanks for playing.

Come back when you realize the wins and losses doesn't equal success from an offensive coordinator. Lets give an example since it doesn't seem to be clicking with your brain.

Nick Saban was the Cleveland Browns' DC where they posted a losing recording during his and BB's time there. I suppose he would be considered unsuccessful in that regard like Missouri? If the record had such a strong baring on his coaching ability why would Michigan State make a man who failed at the Browns their next head football coach?

Maybe because this topic isn't as black and white as youre making it out to be?

That being said I stand by my statement. His offenses were successful at Missouri and they regressed once he left. That was my entire point Lil Shaprio. So Relax, lol.



PS: My comparison to Ben Shaprio was mocking you because you keep ending all your posts with these dramatic exit innuendos at the end of all your posts and it's hilarious, lol.

 

[Hairy Vols]

You do have to admit though - when you look at the red rows in the schedules he attached there are a lot of low point totals for Mizzou in those games, no? The offense performed well in just a couple of those losses. When Mizzou lost games during those 2 seasons, it was usually because both their offense and defense were bad.

oh absolutely I agree with all of what you just said. However I could counter argue aside from Vandy, from a recruiting standpoint, were they not the least talented team in SEC at that time based on Rivals recruiting records?

 

[05_never_again]

oh absolutely I agree with all of what you just said. However I could counter argue aside from Vandy, from a recruiting standpoint, were they not the least talented team in SEC at that time based on Rivals recruiting records?

I'm not entirely sure, but Heupel did have an eventual NFL QB (Lock) to work with during those years and was a 4-star.

Personally, I thought Lock was kind of overrated as a college QB. He had good overall numbers, but just like Mizzou's offense overall he got those numbers in large part by cleaning up against horrible defenses. Check out the stat lines against the good defenses he squared off against - the completion %s and TD/INT ratio were quite often really bad. Now I know Lock isn't going to throw for 500 yds and 6 TDs against Georgia, but the drop off was immense between the good and bad teams.

At least we do know that Heupel's offense is capable of lighting it up against bad/mediocre defenses, which is way more than Pruitt's offense could say.

 

[Hairy Vols]

I'm not entirely sure, but Heupel did have an eventual NFL QB (Lock) to work with during those years and was a 4-star.

Personally, I thought Lock was kind of overrated as a college QB. He had good overall numbers, but just like Mizzou's offense overall he got those numbers in large part by cleaning up against horrible defenses. Check out the stat lines against the good defenses he squared off against - the completion %s and TD/INT ratio were quite often really bad. Now I know Lock isn't going to throw for 500 yds and 6 TDs against Georgia, but the drop off was immense between the good and bad teams.

At least we do know that Heupel's offense is capable of lighting it up against bad/mediocre defenses, which is way more than Pruitt's offense could say.

My biggest worry is that he hasn't spent a lot of time places long term. He is always moving and shifting and he has a reputation for leaving just out of the blue (Go check what UCF and Missouri said about him leaving). So I'm not sure how much I trust him tbh. But like you said, hopefully he does well.

 

[05_never_again]

My biggest worry is that he hasn't spent a lot of time places long term. He is always moving and shifting and he has a reputation for leaving just out of the blue (Go check what UCF and Missouri said about him leaving). So I'm not sure how much I trust him tbh. But like you said, hopefully he does well.

Not so sure I would worry about that; leaving Utah St's OC job for Mizzou's OC job is a no brainer, and leaving Mizzou's OC job to take over UCF's HC job (coming off an undefeated season and "national championship") is a no brainer too. I mean, I suppose that is job hopping, but that is typical in college sports these days and those were 2 very clear promotions as well.

His biggest red flag to me is that he wasn't able to keep UCF together as well as I'd like to see. 2018 was a great season - they basically replicated 2017 except they lost to the SEC team in the NY6 bowl, but then they took clear and steady steps back in 2019 and 2020. I do know that, unlike how they felt when Danny White left, UCF fans weren't exactly broken up when they heard Heupel was leaving. In fact most of their people think they got an upgrade.

 

[508mikey]

My biggest worry is that he hasn't spent a lot of time places long term. He is always moving and shifting and he has a reputation for leaving just out of the blue (Go check what UCF and Missouri said about him leaving). So I'm not sure how much I trust him tbh. But like you said, hopefully he does well.

no worries for him at UT - they stay for the buyout

 

[miket4god]

Not so sure I would worry about that; leaving Utah St's OC job for Mizzou's OC job is a no brainer, and leaving Mizzou's OC job to take over UCF's HC job (coming off an undefeated season and "national championship") is a no brainer too. I mean, I suppose that is job hopping, but that is typical in college sports these days and those were 2 very clear promotions as well.

His biggest red flag to me is that he wasn't able to keep UCF together as well as I'd like to see. 2018 was a great season - they basically replicated 2017 except they lost to the SEC team in the NY6 bowl, but then they took clear and steady steps back in 2019 and 2020. I do know that, unlike how they felt when Danny White left, UCF fans weren't exactly broken up when they heard Heupel was leaving. In fact most of their people think they got an upgrade.

I can even understand/excuse the dropoff from '18 to '19. McKenzie Milton gets hurt and he has to start a true freshman at QB in '19 and still went 10-3. Not many could do that.
Drop off from '19 to '20 is a little more concerning though.

 

[BeardedVol]

Come back when you realize the wins and losses doesn't equal success from an offensive coordinator. Lets give an example since it doesn't seem to be clicking with your brain.

Nick Saban was the Cleveland Browns' DC where they posted a losing recording during his and BB's time there. I suppose he would be considered unsuccessful in that regard like Missouri? If the record had such a strong baring on his coaching ability why would Michigan State make a man who failed at the Browns their next head football coach?

Maybe because this topic isn't as black and white as youre making it out to be?

That being said I stand by my statement. His offenses were successful at Missouri and they regressed once he left. That was my entire point Lil Shaprio. So Relax, lol.



PS: My comparison to Ben Shaprio was mocking you because you keep ending all your posts with these dramatic exit innuendos at the end of all your posts and it's hilarious, lol.

It's not just about wins and losses, I didn't say that, I said that it his time at Missouri wasn't a sign of success. It's not in terms of wins-losses, and it's not in terms of offensive production, just like @05_never_again pointed out to you. Heupel's offense puts up points against bad teams, it's very consistent at that, and against good teams, it's not.

PS: If you have a boner for Ben Shapiro, you probably shouldn't wave it around outside politics forum, as no one here cares to see it.

 

[Hairy Vols]

It's not just about wins and losses, I didn't say that, I said that it his time at Missouri wasn't a sign of success. It's not in terms of wins-losses, and it's not in terms of offensive production, just like @05_never_again pointed out to you. Heupel's offense puts up points against bad teams, it's very consistent at that, and against good teams, it's not.

PS: If you have a boner for Ben Shapiro, you probably shouldn't wave it around outside politics forum, as no one here cares to see it.

And I'm blaming the personal on that more than him. Missouri was the least talented, or 2nd least, talented team in the SEC on paper. So IMO any victories already were overachieving.

Tho I do understand your point and heck I could be completely wrong. Tbh I think I was a little more hostile in my responses than I should have been. I quit smoking a few days ago and have been on edge a little. So I apologize.

Also I have Ben Shapiro, idk why I brought that up like it was a good insult. Again I'm very sorry for being rude and tbh you could be right. Tho Im gonna blindly hope I am so we can end this cycle of terrible coaches.

I'm 31 years old and have seen like 1 or 2 good Tennessee teams since I started puberty til now. I'd like that to change sooner than later lol.

 

[overseasorange2]

Frost doesn’t have a QB or OL.

It’s difficult to be successful when your line can’t block for a QB that’s not very good.

I remember a time when TN wanted that QB

 

[UTwild82]

If Nebraska fires Scott Frost, what about Jamey Chadwell from Coastal Carolina? That offense of his seems like a good fit for there. With the recruiting disadvantages they face, seems like they are going to need to get someone who does something outside the box.

 

[OrangeSoddyDaisy]

The Nebraska experiment is over. I can’t imagine how that fan base feels. Way lower than us.

I don't think the Nebraska fan base is as unrealistic as UT's. I drove through Lincoln last year at the beginning of football season. I saw a total of one Nebraska flag. No billboards, bumper stickers, nothing. On the other hand, despite being inarguably irrelevant for decades, the average UT fan is stunned when they lose to Kentucky.