Scotty Hopson named 3rd Team Preseason All-America

[Chris4Vols22]

I've brought this up before...and I know it sounds a little crazy...but we could support the players we have, instead of unconditionally bashing them (especially when we have no place to bash, as we are neither D1 coaches nor athletes). Bottom line is that Scotty is a very valuable part of the team. No, he doesn't completely dominate, but how big of a redneck are you to just throw this guy under the bus? He's the 2nd leading scorer at only 12.2 ppg!! That's incredibly low for 2nd in ppg because we play team-oriented basketball. Our style isn't to have a 29 pt. 8 rb. 8 ast. standout and the rest of the team just passes him the ball.

It makes me sad to know that while we here arguing the merits of our best player, that UK fans are uniting, rallying, and supporting their players. I don't think UK fans are classier than UT, but they sure are more more unified and supportive.

 

[LawVol13]

Actually, it isn't based on reality. You've invented a category--and estimated it incorrectly, according to golfballs--and used it to justify your bias. Scotty had better numbers. Scotty got more minutes. Scotty is a better player. Michael Hubert, by the way, averaged 46/40 minutes by my quick calculation.

You don't like Hopson, you think he has not lived up to billing, so you see things that are not there. I get that. Tatum and Hopson are similar players, and both have had flashes of brillance and periods of disappearance, but Hopson is more productive and has higher upside. Don't let the fact that more was, and is, expected of him confuse that.

I didn't invent any category. That is a stat that is calculated, and I guarantee you that is a stat that most coaches look at. And it's a fact that Tatum was more productive while he was on the floor than Hopson during the last part of the year. And, by the way, I didn't estimate incorrectly by golfballs' stats. He claims that Hopson averaged more per 40 minutes over the course of the year. I have only ever contended that Tatum was better the last part of the year. There is no doubt that Hopson scored more points against the UNC-Asheville's of the schedule and was the more productive player at that time.

I agree that Hopson is the more talented player with more upside. But, I still think Tatum was the better player during the last part of the season.

 

[LawVol13]

I've brought this up before...and I know it sounds a little crazy...but we could support the players we have, instead of unconditionally bashing them (especially when we have no place to bash, as we are neither D1 coaches nor athletes). Bottom line is that Scotty is a very valuable part of the team. No, he doesn't completely dominate, but how big of a redneck are you to just throw this guy under the bus? He's the 2nd leading scorer at only 12.2 ppg!! That's incredibly low for 2nd in ppg because we play team-oriented basketball. Our style isn't to have a 29 pt. 8 rb. 8 ast. standout and the rest of the team just passes him the ball.

It makes me sad to know that while we here arguing the merits of our best player, that UK fans are uniting, rallying, and supporting their players. I don't think UK fans are classier than UT, but they sure are more more unified and supportive.

That's right. UK fans never complain about a coach or player....oh wait.

 

[BasketvolsFan]

Hahaha yeah he was a beast! 100% from behind the arc, if I'm not mistaking.

To throw in a player that maybe played in two games all season for the last one or two minutes is laughable.

 

[cotton]

I agree that Hopson is the more talented player with more upside. But, I still think Tatum was the better player during the last part of the season.

I disagree, but that's the purpose of message boards, I suppose.

To throw in a player that maybe played in two games all season for the last one or two minutes is laughable.

The example was used to identify the distorted conclusion that can come from using that particular stat.

 

[BasketvolsFan]

It is distorted only when you use a player that played, perhaps a total of 4 minutes all season and happened to hit a shot or two. For players that play significant minutes, it is not at all distorted.

 

[Chris4Vols22]

It is distorted only when you use a player that played, perhaps a total of 4 minutes all season and happened to hit a shot or two. For players that play significant minutes, it is not at all distorted.

We're very aware of that. It was just a light-hearted comment haha.

 

[cotton]

It is distorted only when you use a player that played, perhaps a total of 4 minutes all season and happened to hit a shot or two. For players that play significant minutes, it is not at all distorted.

What, then, do you think is the reason that Hopson was getting significantly more minutes? Payola? Blackmail?

 

[Chris4Vols22]

That's right. UK fans never complain about a coach or player....oh wait.

Ok, in all seriousness, what's the scrutiny that UK fans talking about? I'm sincerely not trying to argue, but I'm just curious. Are there UK fans who see Calipari as a slime-ball like I do? What players do they debate?

 

[cotton]

Ok, in all seriousness, what's the scrutiny that UK fans talking about? I'm sincerely not trying to argue, but I'm just curious. Are there UK fans who see Calipari as a slime-ball like I do? What players do they debate?

Wildcat Nation has a long history of demonizing its ballers. Rajon Rondo, to give one fairly recent example, was the most hated man in the Bluegrass at one time.

 

[BasketvolsFan]

What, then, do you think is the reason that Hopson was getting significantly more minutes? Payola? Blackmail?

If I remember correctly there was some type of issue that caused Tatum to be unavailable to play for several games during last season---perhaps you don't remember or have just been living under a rock. When the returned he got significant minutes and out produced Hopson. He doesn't start due to the fact that Pearl can't recruit a 5* player and not play him due to the impact on future recruits. This season will prove the worth of both players to the team as both will start. If Tatum remains healthy, his stats will rival or exceed Hopson.

 

[LawVol13]

What, then, do you think is the reason that Hopson was getting significantly more minutes? Payola? Blackmail?

Perhaps because there are recruiting ramifications for not playing your prized McDonald's All-American recruit.

 

[cotton]

If I remember correctly there was some type of issue that caused Tatum to be unavailable to play for several games during last season---perhaps you don't remember or have just been living under a rock. When the returned he got significant minutes and out produced Hopson. He doesn't start due to the fact that Pearl can't recruit a 5* player and not play him due to the impact on future recruits. This season will prove the worth of both players to the team as both will start. If Tatum remains healthy, his stats will rival or exceed Hopson.

No he didn't. Check the stats again. Hopson outscored him by about a basket per game after Tatum's return (not counting the first game back against USC, in which Tatum was shut out in only 4 minutes.) The very nice rock I am living under at least has access to Google and ESPN.

Perhaps because there are recruiting ramifications for not playing your prized McDonald's All-American recruit.

I love the Star Conspiracy Theory, regardless of the sport. Stars kept Hopson on the floor for twenty minutes more against MSU and ten minutes more against OSU. This is due to the fact that playing the 4* kid in his place would have killed recruiting.

 

[LawVol13]

No he didn't. Check the stats again. Hopson outscored him by about a basket per game after Tatum's return (not counting the first game back against USC.) The very nice rock I am living under at least has access to Google and ESPN.



I love the Star Conspiracy Theory, regardless of the sport. Stars kept Hopson on the floor for twenty minutes more against MSU and ten minutes more against OSU. This is due to the fact that playing the 4* kid in his place would have killed recruiting.

It was a mistake to not have played Tatum more against MSU, and I said so at the time.

And if you really believe not starting a consensus top 10 recruit wouldn't be used against us in recruiting, then you're naive.

 

[cotton]

It was a mistake to not have played Tatum more against MSU, and I said so at the time.

And if you really believe not starting a consensus top 10 recruit wouldn't be used against us in recruiting, then I'm not sure you follow basketball very closely.

I'm still sticking with the theory that, in two fairly evenly matched games in the NCAA tourney with the first ever final four matchup on the line, Pearl had the guys on the floor that he thought gave him the best chance to win.

In fact, I'm sticking with that theory for the rest of the games, too.

Follow basketball as closely as you like, but I'm not sure it is going to do you much good. You seem to be drawing erroneous conclusions from what you follow.

 

[LawVol13]

I'm still sticking with the theory that, in two fairly evenly matched games in the NCAA tourney with the first ever final four matchup on the line, Pearl had the guys on the floor that he thought gave him the best chance to win.

In fact, I'm sticking with that theory for the rest of the games, too.

Follow basketball as closely as you like, but I'm not sure it is going to do you much good. You seem to be drawing erroneous conclusions from what you follow.

I think there was a chemistry issue with Hopson being in the game. Tatum was coming back from the suspension, and I'm sure Pearl wasn't going to start playing Tatum significantly more minutes than Hopson because the effects it could have possibly caused with Hopson and in the locker room.

That still does not mean that Hopson was the more productive player when he was on the floor because he wasn't. BTW, Tatum had 7 pts in 12 minutes against MSU. Hopson had 10 in 33. You do the math.

 

[cotton]

I think there was a chemistry issue with Hopson being in the game. Tatum was coming back from the suspension, and I'm sure Pearl wasn't going to start playing Tatum significantly more minutes than Hopson because the effects it could have possibly caused with Hopson.

That still does not mean that Hopson was the more productive player when he was on the floor because he wasn't. BTW, Tatum had 7 pts in 12 minutes against MSU. Hopson had 10 in 33. You do the math.

Wonder why Hopson was playing more minutes before the suspension.

After doing the math, I still wonder, too, why Bruce would have left such an inferior player on the floor for so much longer. That's probably why we got Tobias Harris--Scotty's 20 more minutes in a loss.

 

[LawVol13]

Wonder why Hopson was playing more minutes before the suspension.

After doing the math, I still wonder, too, why Bruce would have left such an inferior player on the floor for so much longer. That's probably why we got Tobias Harris--Scotty's 20 more minutes in a loss.

You can take what I said out of context all you want. I have never said Scotty was a "far inferior" player nor do I think that. I said Tatum was simply better over the last half of the year and was more productive while on the floor. I've backed that up with stats while you've backed yours up with nothing but condescending remarks with no substance.

If you think Hopson's the better player, good for you. I don't, and I told you why.

 

[LawVol13]

Wonder why Hopson was playing more minutes before the suspension.

After doing the math, I still wonder, too, why Bruce would have left such an inferior player on the floor for so much longer. That's probably why we got Tobias Harris--Scotty's 20 more minutes in a loss.

I have already told you why I think he was playing more before the suspension: because Pearl feels pressure to play extremely highly rated recruits. Of course, that couldn't be true because it's not like Pearl's failure to put players into the NBA isn't used against him in recruiting...oh wait. It's actually used against him all the time.

 

[cotton]

You can take what I said out of context all you want. I have never said Scotty was a "far inferior" player nor do I think that. I said Tatum was simply better over the last half of the year and was more productive while on the floor. I've backed that up with stats while you've backed yours up with nothing but condescending remarks with no substance.

If you think Hopson's the better player, good for you. I don't, and I told you why.

Sorry, I thought a higher scoring average was substance, and I thought the staff seeing fit to give him more minutes, particularly in highly contested, important games, was significant as well. I would point out his higher RPG, but it won't be any more substantive by your definition. If that is condescending, I'm sorry.

I do believe that Hopson is the better player, but I'm not sure how good that is for me. The coaches seem to as well, as do Vitale and the guys who send out the invitations to all-star camps and select teams, for whatever that is worth.

 

[LawVol13]

Sorry, I thought a higher scoring average was substance, and I thought the staff seeing fit to give him more minutes, particularly in highly contested, important games, was significant as well. I would point out his higher RPG, but it won't be any more substantive by your definition. If that is condescending, I'm sorry.

I do believe that Hopson is the better player, but I'm not sure how good that is for me. The coaches seem to as well, as do Vitale and the guys who send out the invitations to all-star camps and select teams, for whatever that is worth.

That's right. It wouldn't have been any more substantive because Hopson averaged 1.2 rebs a game more than Tatum while playing playing 11 more minutes a game. So, it could be legitimately argued that Tatum is at least as good a rebounder if not better than Hopson.

Also, minutes a game also aren't too substantive when my entire argument is that Tatum was the more productive player when he was on the floor. Also, ppg aren't too substantive in that either. Points per 40 minutes is substantive to that, but of course, that's a "invented category" according to you.

 

[cotton]

That's right. It wouldn't have been any more substantive because Hopson averaged 1.2 rebs a game more than Tatum while playing playing 11 more minutes a game. So, it could be legitimately argued that Tatum is at least as good a rebounder if not better than Hopson.

Also, minutes a game also aren't too substantive when my entire argument is that Tatum was the more productive player when he was on the floor. Also, ppg aren't too substantive in that either. Points per 40 minutes is substantive to that, but of course, that's a "invented category" according to you.

I see. PPG and RPG are not substantive statistics when evaluating a player. Neither are minutes played or games started. Points per minute on the floor in games you deem important are the only numbers that matter.

Your point, boiled down, is that Bruce played the wrong player, I assume because of SCT and its impact on recruiting. I disagree.

 

[LawVol13]

I see. PPG and RPG are not substantive statistics when evaluating a player. Neither are minutes played or games started. Points per minute on the floor in games you deem important are the only numbers that matter.

Your point, boiled down, is that Bruce played the wrong player, I assume because of SCT and its impact on recruiting. I disagree.

Again, taken out of context. When evaluating the productivity of a player, his rebounds, points, steals, blocks, etc. per 40 minutes are much more telling when you're dealing with players that actually get to play unlike Michael Hubert.

And that's not my point. I understand why Pearl plays Hopson. My point, as I have stated numerous times through this thread is that Tatum was the better, more productive player over the last half of the season.

 

[cotton]

Again, taken out of context. When evaluating the productivity of a player, his rebounds, points, steals, blocks, etc. per 40 minutes are much more telling when you're dealing with players that actually get to play unlike Michael Hubert.

And that's not my point. I understand why Pearl plays Hopson. My point, as I have stated numerous times through this thread is that Tatum was the better, more productive player over the last half of the season.

How many minutes is enough to make an evaluation? 11? 13? 17 is obviously plenty. Check out Kenny Hall's numbers per 40 minutes. Or Skylar McBee's. Are you really going to argue that we had a bunch of production on the bench with them? Was it the star rating that caused that?

Your evaluation is fallacious. Your point is wrong. Tatum wasn't more productive because he didn't produce as much. He wasn't on the floor as often because, in the view of the guys that make those decisions, he wasn't going to produce as much. I happen to agree with them.

 

[PandamoniumReigns]

Right. Clearly Dick Vitale's assumption for whatever it's worth, is that Hopson might actually play to his potential. But I agree with you, based on his track record, I don't see it happening. I hope I'm wrong, I think he will be improved, but I don't think he will be All-America.

Dick Vitale doesn't know his left gonad from his right unless he's referring to Duke or UNC.

His "predictions" are absurd and always have been. BABY!