SEC coaches draft

[Nooga]

I also think people are greatly underestimating how important Todd Monken was. Georgia's offense was never great before Monken and now it's taken a step back without him. Monken was perfect for Kirby, because he offset his weaknesses.

I think you are onto something here. Kirby and Monken butted heads a lot. But ultimately his offensive philosophies won over and Kirby reluctantly adapted.
Bobo is Kirby’s buddy and now seems to have the green light to open up the offense as seen against KY. That could be dangerous as it seems Carson Beck is the real deal.

 

[Visidog]

I'd take Heupel over Kirby.

Kirby has out-talented the rest of the SEC, which is relatively easy to do at UGa. I doubt he has anywhere close to the same results at somewhere like Mississippi State or Mizzou. I do think he's a good college coach, but if you put him in the NFL where there's more parity, I think he'd get his butt handed to him on a regular basis. Keep the same players, but switch Heupel and Kirby as coaches, with Heup at UGa and Kirby here, Georgia still wins the national titles, but I doubt Kirby does anywhere near as well as Heupel did here.

I also think people are greatly underestimating how important Todd Monken was. Georgia's offense was never great before Monken and now it's taken a step back without him. Monken was perfect for Kirby, because he offset his weaknesses.

Saban is #1, but given that he's 71 years old, I'd take Heupel over him as well.

Kiffin is the real debate IMO. Ole Miss is a mid-tier SEC job and Kiffin has outperformed there. Personality-wise, I'd take Heupel over Kiffin, but it's a legit debate on who is a better coach.

I’m not sure why you say UGA has taken a step back. This year’s UGA team is scoring more points and converting more third downs than last year’s version at the same point in the season, and that’s with a new QB, top three RBs out or limited, top WR mostly out, top OL out, etc. Total offense is down about 15 yards per game but is ranked 8th nationally. Passing offense is up and rushing is down.

But you’re right about Monken’s influence. Especially in the pass game, UGA is still running Monken’s offense with the Bobo Back Shoulder (TM) built in. I’m more worried about the running game, both in personnel and scheme.

 

[DaddyChad]

I think it’s Kirby, Heupel, or Kiffin. Got to be just those. Of course Saban is the greatest but his age would knock him down on anyone’s draft list. Kirby of course is the heir apparent but Georgia was loaded when he got there, roster has only gotten more loaded since then; idk that he has that kind of success at Tennessee?

Kiffin talks a good game but always underachieves. Some of his coaching decisions also are just really questionable as well. Not to mention he’s kind of a job jumper which imo knocks him down as well.

 

[DaddyChad]

I’m not sure why you say UGA has taken a step back. This year’s UGA team is scoring more points and converting more third downs than last year’s version at the same point in the season, and that’s with a new QB, top three RBs out or limited, top WR mostly out, top OL out, etc. Total offense is down about 15 yards per game but is ranked 8th nationally. Passing offense is up and rushing is down.

But you’re right about Monken’s influence. Especially in the pass game, UGA is still running Monken’s offense with the Bobo Back Shoulder (TM) built in. I’m more worried about the running game, both in personnel and scheme.

To be fair Georgia has had a pretty easy schedule so far. I think Georgia has taken a step back but even with a step back they can win the national title.

 

[miket4god]

Yes, recruiting is part of college football coaching and in the vernacular a good coach has a winning record. But technically a great coach is one who gets the most from the player talent with which he/she has to work and he/she might have a losing record. A great coach wouldn't win a game if he had talent like me to work with.
In my opinion Bill Snyder is the best coach of the past 50-60 years.

You're equating x' and o's with coaching. He may be the best at scheming and developing, but I'd rather have a coach scheming and developing 5* players than 3* players.

 

[AlsaceFreak]

I will say on the Kirby thing (and I also answered Kirby in this thread), I would be interested to know how good he actually is on a level playing field. He has more talent than the team he's playing against 95% of the time.

In 2016 he didn't and he was 8-5. He's also lost some games to far less talented teams. It's really hard to tell if he's actually a great coach, or just consistently has much better players.

Agree. Kirby has the most talent in the whole US in his backyard-- Atlanta. Spurrier called the Atlanta area the " new Florida" and he is right. Secondly, Athens is probably the best college town in the SEC and one of the best in the US. Not to mention the recruits know they can go 35 minutes down the road and be in the Atlanta area for anything they cannot get in a college town. Shopping, nightlife etc
It's no coincidence that Georgia's surge has come now that the Atlanta area has the best football recruits in the US. Even Cornbread knew this and was all over the Georgia recruits.

 

[05_never_again]

I will say on the Kirby thing (and I also answered Kirby in this thread), I would be interested to know how good he actually is on a level playing field. He has more talent than the team he's playing against 95% of the time.

In 2016 he didn't and he was 8-5. He's also lost some games to far less talented teams. It's really hard to tell if he's actually a great coach, or just consistently has much better players.

The whole point of college coaching is to make sure you're not playing on a level playing field. Kirby is great at that.

Every good college coach has more talent than the team he's playing against. It's the entire point of the job.

 

[Visidog]

The whole point of college coaching is to make sure you're not playing on a level playing field. Kirby is great at that.

Every good college coach has more talent than the team he's playing against. It's the entire point of the job.

I agree but can’t resist paraphrasing Yogi Berra: good players beat good schemes and vice versa.

 

[bpalmer28]

"It's really hard to tell if he's actually a great coach, or just consistently has much better players."

This.....and IMO this goes for Saban also.

Hopefully people will be saying the same thing about Heupel soon. Fact is there ain’t nobody winning big without great players. Saban and Kirby have just found ways to have great players consistently unlike Miles, Ed O, Chizik, Dabo, Fisher, etc

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I'd take Heupel over Kirby.

Kirby has out-talented the rest of the SEC, which is relatively easy to do at UGa. I doubt he has anywhere close to the same results at somewhere like Mississippi State or Mizzou. I do think he's a good college coach, but if you put him in the NFL where there's more parity, I think he'd get his butt handed to him on a regular basis. Keep the same players, but switch Heupel and Kirby as coaches, with Heup at UGa and Kirby here, Georgia still wins the national titles, but I doubt Kirby does anywhere near as well as Heupel did here.

I also think people are greatly underestimating how important Todd Monken was. Georgia's offense was never great before Monken and now it's taken a step back without him. Monken was perfect for Kirby, because he offset his weaknesses.

Saban is #1, but given that he's 71 years old, I'd take Heupel over him as well.

Kiffin is the real debate IMO. Ole Miss is a mid-tier SEC job and Kiffin has outperformed there. Personality-wise, I'd take Heupel over Kiffin, but it's a legit debate on who is a better coach.

Where are you seeing UGAs offense taking a step back?

In 2022: UGA was 3rd in the SEC in scoring (41.1), second in yards (501 per game). Average was 7.2 yards per play.

Currently in the SEC, UGA is 3rd in scoring (41), and 2nd in yards per game at 502. Average is 7.1 yards per play.

I am not seeing the step back.

 

[05_never_again]

I agree but can’t resist paraphrasing Yogi Berra: good players beat good schemes and vice versa.

In college sports, not really.

 

[BigALWiLson]

There's no way you wouldn't pick Smart first. Results speak for themselves.

Smart never had to do what Heupel inherited. That said I want Heupel

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

Good grief are you serious? Question for you. Let’s say Heupel goes on a recruiting and winning run like Kirby has. Will you be questioning him as a coach?

Not now, no. I've seen what Heup can do with an average team. There's no questioning his coaching ability.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

He had the easiest possible journey to a national title of any coach in recent memory. If you’re the head coach of UGA you’ve usually got first dibs on instate talent which is arguably the best in the country. I grew up in Gwinnett county which at one point had the most pro athletes and NFL players per capita in the country and probably still do today. Most of the kids there grow up UGA fans. When he took over Georgia I think they came off a 8 win season but for the most part were already super close to winning under Richt and had mostly 9-11 win seasons under him. Imagine if Heupel took over that job I think there’d be a pretty good chance he’d have similar success.

Back to back 10 win seasons actually. That's what Kirby inherited.

 

[J C Higgins]

You're equating x' and o's with coaching. He may be the best at scheming and developing, but I'd rather have a coach scheming and developing 5* players than 3* players.

I'm separating recruiting from coaching. Technically, great coaching (and that includes X's and O's) doesn't necessarily translate to a great record because of the player talent factor. A great coach may not have a good record if he/she doesn't have the player talent to produce a good W/L record.

 

[miket4god]

I'm separating recruiting from coaching. Technically, great coaching (and that includes X's and O's) doesn't necessarily translate to a great record because of the player talent factor. A great coach may not have a good record if he/she doesn't have the player talent to produce a good W/L record.

Then they are not a great coach because talent acquisition is one of the primary requirements of a college coach. Scheming AND recruiting are both in the job desciption.

 

[Hoosier_Vol]

Has to be Kirby

 

[Jdw2920]

I think kiffin or Kirby for sure.

 

[TNHopeful505]

For those of you saying "yeah but Kirby has the most talent."

Butch had a ton of talent on those teams. Absolute filthy amount of NFL talent. And yet...best we ever did was what, 9 wins?

You can have talent all you want, but have you developed them, AND can you use them in the right way? Kirby does.

Now, is Georgia an easier place to recruit to than TN? You could make that case from the standpoint of "there's more talent in Georgia than TN."

But Kirby has done an excellent job, no matter how you feel about him.

That being said, i personally feel like he is a d-bag, so give me Heupel all day long. Heup is going to steal one from Kirby eventually. This year? Not sure, but he will.

 

[05_never_again]

I'm separating recruiting from coaching. Technically, great coaching (and that includes X's and O's) doesn't necessarily translate to a great record because of the player talent factor. A great coach may not have a good record if he/she doesn't have the player talent to produce a good W/L record.

Why separate it? Recruiting is a huge part, probably the single biggest part, of being a college coach.

 

[J C Higgins]

Then they are not a great coach because talent acquisition is one of the primary requirements of a college coach. Scheming AND recruiting are both in the job description.

We're talking about two different things. I'm talking about the definition and qualities of a great coach and you're tailing about the "primary requirements of a college coach".

Noticeably absent from the definition below is ability to recruit players.

https://olympics.com/athlete365/entourage/qualities-of-a-great-sports-coach/

 

[05_never_again]

Yes, recruiting is part of college football coaching and in the vernacular a good coach has a winning record. But technically a great coach is one who gets the most from the player talent with which he/she has to work and he/she might have a losing record. A great coach wouldn't win a game if he had talent like me to work with.
In my opinion Bill Snyder is the best coach of the past 50-60 years.

Even though Kirby has had a considerable amount of talent at UGA, it is hard to argue that he isn't the guy who also has gotten the most out of it.

He's only lost 15 games in 7+ seasons, and has only lost 3 games the last 3+ years, including back-to-back titles. He hasn't finished outside of the top 7 in the country since 2016. I don't care if you do have the best players every year...that's still getting the most out of what you have.

 

[volbound1700]

Here is a question that was proposed to me and several others this past weekend. Interested to see what others think.

If all the SEC schools had their coaches in a pool and there was a coaches draft AND Tennessee had the first pick….who would you take. This draft takes place today so all the benefits are moving forward and not the past.

There isn’t anyone I would take over CJH.

Kirby Smart.

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

I'd say the top three ... in NO order ... Smart, Heupel, and (my apologies in advance) Kiffin.
* First, why do I not have Saban in the list? I think he is past his prime and I would have no interest in giving him a 4 year contract at his age (71). Reminds me of Tom Landry these days. Just so we are clear, but I had great respect for Tom! I also have great respect for Nick, but the last few years makes it look like he has lost a step or two. He is not on par with Biden, but I think I see the downhill slide unfolding.
* Not completely sold on Kiffin (48) as a HC (and I dislike him as a human - that might be affecting my judgement), but, as a coach, he does appear to be getting better. After all he has 17 years HC experience. He would be my selection if I was picking 3rd. [If he beats Alabama this year, he will be my odds on favorite to replace Saban when he retires at the end of this year.]
* The other two: Kirby (47) and Heupel (45) ... I just don't know about the relative 'value' of the other two coaches! I call it a toss up at this time. If I am picking 2nd, I take whichever one is still available.
Kirby (47) has been blessed with talent, but is his success due mostly to the abundance of talent at his disposal? Hard to say! Yet, let's give him credit being able to continue to bring in an overabundance of talent year over year. His location has a lot to do with the strength of his pool. The programs progression in 8 years is impressive.
Heupel (45) has done really well with less talent and his scheme. But he has only been a HC for 6 years. The progress of the program has been wonderful, the talent pool is improving, but not really closing the talent gap with those in from of him (according to me - but I certainly am not an authority on the topic). So, he appears to be doing more with less talent.
Final call ... Heupel ... if I was forced to pick first ... this would be more about my dislike for Kirby and hoping for greatness from Josh.

 

[miket4god]

I'd say the top three ... in NO order ... Smart, Heupel, and (my apologies in advance) Kiffin.
* First, why do I not have Saban in the list? I think he is past his prime and I would have no interest in giving him a 4 year contract at his age (71). Reminds me of Tom Landry these days. Just so we are clear, but I had great respect for Tom! I also have great respect for Nick, but the last few years makes it look like he has lost a step or two. He is not on par with Biden, but I think I see the downhill slide unfolding.
* Not completely sold on Kiffin (48) as a HC (and I dislike him as a human - that might be affecting my judgement), but, as a coach, he does appear to be getting better. After all he has 17 years HC experience. He would be my selection if I was picking 3rd. [If he beats Alabama this year, he will be my odds on favorite to replace Saban when he retires at the end of this year.]
* The other two: Kirby (47) and Heupel (45) ... I just don't know about the relative 'value' of the other two coaches! I call it a toss up at this time. If I am picking 2nd, I take whichever one is still available.
Kirby (47) has been blessed with talent, but is his success due mostly to the abundance of talent at his disposal? Hard to say! Yet, let's give him credit being able to continue to bring in an overabundance of talent year over year. His location has a lot to do with the strength of his pool. The programs progression in 8 years is impressive.
Heupel (45) has done really well with less talent and his scheme. But he has only been a HC for 6 years. The progress of the program has been wonderful, the talent pool is improving, but not really closing the talent gap with those in from of him (according to me - but I certainly am not an authority on the topic). So, he appears to be doing more with less talent.
Final call ... Heupel ... if I was forced to pick first ... this would be more about my dislike for Kirby and hoping for greatness from Josh.

I think I would take Ryan Day or Lincoln Riley before lane Kiffin.