SEC Expansion (merged)

#26
#26
If they join the Big Ten and get competitive, then they get a bit more attention in the Nashville area, I guess. They are, all-around, more of a "Big Ten-type" school than an SEC type. They would certainly fit in.
 
#27
#27
FSU would be good the east is kind of a joke right now compared to the west with tenn and uga kinda down
 
#28
#28
BIG BOI 23 said:
FSU would be good the east is kind of a joke right now compared to the west with tenn and uga kinda down
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Tennessee and Georgia are down, but FSU is even worse... they've been getting similar records in recent years as Tennessee and Georgia, but in one of the easiest BCS conferences around.
 
#30
#30
Orangekush423 said:
Fla state. You heard it here.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Florida State has been offered TWICE and refused TWICE....With good reason, Why leave a great situation?...They own the ACC in football...11 ACC football titles....Miami is a better fit and the people in gainesville would have a stroke over having to play them every year.
 
#31
#31
O rly?

If FSU's last four years is "owning the ACC" then Tennessee has been owning the SEC in the same time frame.
 
#33
#33
VOLnMiami said:
Florida State has been offered TWICE and refused TWICE....With good reason, Why leave a great situation?...They own the ACC in football...11 ACC football titles....Miami is a better fit and the people in gainesville would have a stroke over having to play them every year.
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who gives a crap about people in gainesville? the refused twice with dumbass bowden. i think they seriously look at it now with jimbo
 
#34
#34
The money disparity between the ACC and the SEC has grown quite a bit since FSU joined the ACC in the early 90's. The ACC leadership is continuing its focus on basketball to the neglect of football, so the disparity is only going to get worse (example: losing one of their premier bowl tie ins (Gator) to the SEC, and replacing it with the Sun Bowl in El Paso Texas). FSU is also watching the talent and money gap between them and Florida continue to grow. At one point the two programs were considered equals, and had a good rivalry. Now FSU is a just a guaranteed W for the Gators, largely due to the Gator's SEC tie in (money/recruiting). I can't imagine the Seminole fans are okay with that status. Further, if the SEC does expand, there's a good chance it would include an ACC team like Miami, UVa, Clemson, Ga Tech, etc. I doubt FSU wants to be left behind in an even weaker ACC.

I'm liking the idea of adding WVU in the east, and FSU in the west...
 
#35
#35
I think it's looking more and more like something is gonna happen. So here's my stab at a guess. First, I don't think there would be 2 divisions, I think there would be four. Second, I don't think we'd add teams from states where we already have a solid presence. Is GT or Clemson gonna get TV folks excited? It might look something like this...

DIV 1 -Texas,Texas A&M(or Oklahoma),Arkansas, LSU

DIV 2 -Alabama,Auburn,Ole Miss, Miss. St

Div 3 -Virginia Tech,Cincinatti,UK,Vandy

Div 4 -Florida,Tennesee,UGA,USCjr

Cincinatti is a pretty big market, VT is a market where the SEC has no presence, and obviously can you get Texas and Oklahoma/A&M to come over is the billion $ question.

Obviously, you could move some teams around, for instance, Tennessee might well fit in DIV 3 with VT in 4. I'm just saying it might look like this. Of course, keeping Alabama on our schedule and other rivalries at other schools would be important to maintain. I think that could be worked out.


Bash Away:)
 
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#36
#36
Velo Vol said:
Back to the OP, I assume it would be at least a year off, maybe more. I don't see how they could redo the schedule commitments in a shorter time frame.

Who remembers how it worked in 1992? I don't.
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Both Arkansas and South Carolina actually were invited to join in late summer of 1990. They each played the 1990 and 1991 seasons as members of the SWC and independents, respectively. However, the league actually went to 12 teams in basketball during the 1991-92 season.
 
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#37
#37
vol66 said:
I think it's looking more and more like something is gonna happen. So here's my stab at a guess. First, I don't think there would be 2 divisions, I think there would be four. Second, I don't think we'd add teams from states where we already have a solid presence. Is GT or Clemson gonna get TV folks excited? It might look something like this...

DIV 1 -Texas,Texas A&M(or Oklahoma),Arkansas, LSU

DIV 2 -Alabama,Auburn,Ole Miss, Miss. St

Div 3 -Virginia Tech,Cincinatti,UK,Vandy

Div 4 -Florida,Tennesee,UGA,USCjr

Cincinatti is a pretty big market, VT is a market where the SEC has no presence, and obviously can you get Texas and Oklahoma/A&M to come over is the billion $ question.

Obviously, you could move some teams around, for instance, Tennessee might well fit in DIV 3 with VT in 4. I'm just saying it might look like this. Of course, keeping Alabama on our schedule and other rivalries at other schools would be important to maintain. I think that could be worked out.


Bash Away:)
Click to expand...

If we move to 16 teams I do like the 4 division approach somewhat, but there are problems with it. One major problem then would be the SEC championship. Would you have to win TWO more games in order the win the SEC when you're conference schedule is already brutal as hell?

If we moved from the BCS format to a playoff format with the bowls, the 4 division and 2-game championship would work; but with the BCS poll system, it would be impractical.

Another problem would be scheduling and sustaining permanent rivalry games.

Let's say you have to play your own division + one other. Then you would play the three other teams from your division and 4 teams from another, that's seven games, leaving room for OOC games and a permanent foe. In a two division format you would play the other seven teams from your division, still leaving 4 games for permanent rivals, OOC opponents and other division games.

Let's say you had this hypothetical:
1) Texas, Oklahoma, LSU, Arkansas

2) Tennessee, Vandy, Kentucky, Cincinnati

3) Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, FSU

4) Alabama, Miss St., Ole Miss, Auburn

You would have 3 division opponents plus a whole other division plus any permanent rival.

So, in this hypothetical, Tennessee would play Vandy, Kentucky, Cincinnati, and let's say division 3--Florida, Georgia, USCe, and FSU. That would leave 5 other games for OOC and other divisions. Let's say we had permanent games with 'Bama, Florida, and Georgia every season. When we had a season where we play neither one of their divisions we would have only 2 games available OOC and other divisional foes. Of course, that problem would change depending on the divisional line-ups.
______________________________________________
Now, let's consider a two-division set-up:
1)
Tennessee
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
Vandy
USCe
'Bama
Auburn

2)
LSU
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Miss St.
Texas
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
Team X (some other Western team)

Now, this way we would play our 7 divisional foes (with most main rivalries staying intact) leaving 2 games for Western division opponents and 3 games for OCC.

A theoretical schedule:

1) Cream-puff OOC game (OOC)
2) Tough OOC game (OOC)
3) Florida (East Division)
4) Cream-puff OOC game2 (OOC)
5) Oklahoma (West Division)
6) Georgia (East Division)
7) 'Bama (East Division)
8) USCe (East Division)
9) Texas (West Division)
10) Vandy (East Division)
11) Auburn (East Division)
12) Kentucky (East Division)

Such an alignment would keep most of the major rivalries a yearly thing. It gets dicey if the divisions are kept as they currently are and new teams are just added in. It becomes much more difficult to have permanent rivalry games or to have any OOC games at all if that occurs.

In a four division alignment you'd have an even bigger problem of keeping the major rivalries a yearly occurrence.

Sorry for the long post, lol.
 
#38
#38
orangesox said:
Both Arkansas and South Carolina actually were invited to join in late summer of 1990. They each played the 1990 and 1991 seasons as members of the SWC and independents, respectively. However, the league actually went to 16 teams in basketball during the 1991-92 season.
Click to expand...

And just who were the 4 mystery teams in that 91-92 season?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#40
#40
JoeKyleVol said:
If we move to 16 teams I do like the 4 division approach somewhat, but there are problems with it. One major problem then would be the SEC championship. Would you have to win TWO more games in order the win the SEC when you're conference schedule is already brutal as hell?

If we moved from the BCS format to a playoff format with the bowls, the 4 division and 2-game championship would work; but with the BCS poll system, it would be impractical.

Another problem would be scheduling and sustaining permanent rivalry games.

Let's say you have to play your own division + one other. Then you would play the three other teams from your division and 4 teams from another, that's seven games, leaving room for OOC games and a permanent foe. In a two division format you would play the other seven teams from your division, still leaving 4 games for permanent rivals, OOC opponents and other division games.

Let's say you had this hypothetical:
1) Texas, Oklahoma, LSU, Arkansas

2) Tennessee, Vandy, Kentucky, Cincinnati

3) Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, FSU

4) Alabama, Miss St., Ole Miss, Auburn

You would have 3 division opponents plus a whole other division plus any permanent rival.

So, in this hypothetical, Tennessee would play Vandy, Kentucky, Cincinnati, and let's say division 3--Florida, Georgia, USCe, and FSU. That would leave 5 other games for OOC and other divisions. Let's say we had permanent games with 'Bama, Florida, and Georgia every season. When we had a season where we play neither one of their divisions we would have only 2 games available OOC and other divisional foes. Of course, that problem would change depending on the divisional line-ups.
______________________________________________
Now, let's consider a two-division set-up:
1)
Tennessee
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
Vandy
USCe
'Bama
Auburn

2)
LSU
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Miss St.
Texas
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
Team X (some other Western team)

Now, this way we would play our 7 divisional foes (with most main rivalries staying intact) leaving 2 games for Western division opponents and 3 games for OCC.

A theoretical schedule:

1) Cream-puff OOC game (OOC)
2) Tough OOC game (OOC)
3) Florida (East Division)
4) Cream-puff OOC game2 (OOC)
5) Oklahoma (West Division)
6) Georgia (East Division)
7) 'Bama (East Division)
8) USCe (East Division)
9) Texas (West Division)
10) Vandy (East Division)
11) Auburn (East Division)
12) Kentucky (East Division)

Such an alignment would keep most of the major rivalries a yearly thing. It gets dicey if the divisions are kept as they currently are and new teams are just added in. It becomes much more difficult to have permanent rivalry games or to have any OOC games at all if that occurs.

In a four division alignment you'd have an even bigger problem of keeping the major rivalries a yearly occurrence.

Sorry for the long post, lol.
Click to expand...

I appreciate all the thought you put in on your post and I only have one difference of opinion, really. I don't think the university presidents are going to be AS concerned with keeping rivalries as they will be with growing the SEC footprint, population base, TV money, association with schools with academic prestige.

As a fan I think Miami,FSU,GT,VT(or some other schools) makes a lot of sense, the drives aren't bad, there are some natural rivalries etc...The SEC might feel like we already have Florida, how much do we really need another Florida team? Same with Georgia.

As for the way I lined up the divisions, I was just looking at the NFL, which is probably too simplistic, and you made very valid points I'll have to do some more thinkin'.:)
 
#41
#41
I think FSU and Miami will submarine the ACC out of Florida and Florida recruits for the most part. Also be one heck of a TV market with the whole state in the conference.
 
#45
#45
That is one BRUTAL schedule.

JoeKyleVol said:
If we move to 16 teams I do like the 4 division approach somewhat, but there are problems with it. One major problem then would be the SEC championship. Would you have to win TWO more games in order the win the SEC when you're conference schedule is already brutal as hell?

If we moved from the BCS format to a playoff format with the bowls, the 4 division and 2-game championship would work; but with the BCS poll system, it would be impractical.

Another problem would be scheduling and sustaining permanent rivalry games.

Let's say you have to play your own division + one other. Then you would play the three other teams from your division and 4 teams from another, that's seven games, leaving room for OOC games and a permanent foe. In a two division format you would play the other seven teams from your division, still leaving 4 games for permanent rivals, OOC opponents and other division games.

Let's say you had this hypothetical:
1) Texas, Oklahoma, LSU, Arkansas

2) Tennessee, Vandy, Kentucky, Cincinnati

3) Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, FSU

4) Alabama, Miss St., Ole Miss, Auburn

You would have 3 division opponents plus a whole other division plus any permanent rival.

So, in this hypothetical, Tennessee would play Vandy, Kentucky, Cincinnati, and let's say division 3--Florida, Georgia, USCe, and FSU. That would leave 5 other games for OOC and other divisions. Let's say we had permanent games with 'Bama, Florida, and Georgia every season. When we had a season where we play neither one of their divisions we would have only 2 games available OOC and other divisional foes. Of course, that problem would change depending on the divisional line-ups.
______________________________________________
Now, let's consider a two-division set-up:
1)
Tennessee
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
Vandy
USCe
'Bama
Auburn

2)
LSU
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Miss St.
Texas
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
Team X (some other Western team)

Now, this way we would play our 7 divisional foes (with most main rivalries staying intact) leaving 2 games for Western division opponents and 3 games for OCC.

A theoretical schedule:

1) Cream-puff OOC game (OOC)
2) Tough OOC game (OOC)
3) Florida (East Division)
4) Cream-puff OOC game2 (OOC)
5) Oklahoma (West Division)
6) Georgia (East Division)
7) 'Bama (East Division)
8) USCe (East Division)
9) Texas (West Division)
10) Vandy (East Division)
11) Auburn (East Division)
12) Kentucky (East Division)

Such an alignment would keep most of the major rivalries a yearly thing. It gets dicey if the divisions are kept as they currently are and new teams are just added in. It becomes much more difficult to have permanent rivalry games or to have any OOC games at all if that occurs.

In a four division alignment you'd have an even bigger problem of keeping the major rivalries a yearly occurrence.

Sorry for the long post, lol.
Click to expand...
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#46
#46
I don't think expansion is good for us right now, we are at the bottom and adding all these teams would make it harder to fight our way back.

It might keep us down permanently...
 
#47
#47
TNvol86 said:
The money disparity between the ACC and the SEC has grown quite a bit since FSU joined the ACC in the early 90's. The ACC leadership is continuing its focus on basketball to the neglect of football, so the disparity is only going to get worse (example: losing one of their premier bowl tie ins (Gator) to the SEC, and replacing it with the Sun Bowl in El Paso Texas). FSU is also watching the talent and money gap between them and Florida continue to grow. At one point the two programs were considered equals, and had a good rivalry. Now FSU is a just a guaranteed W for the Gators, largely due to the Gator's SEC tie in (money/recruiting). I can't imagine the Seminole fans are okay with that status. Further, if the SEC does expand, there's a good chance it would include an ACC team like Miami, UVa, Clemson, Ga Tech, etc. I doubt FSU wants to be left behind in an even weaker ACC.

I'm liking the idea of adding WVU in the east, and FSU in the west...
Click to expand...

ACC just got a new TV deal with ESPN. It will pay them $155 million a year now for football with the SEC getting $205 million a year from their TV deal. The ACC closed the gap quite a bit considering they were getting $67 million a year with their previous deal.
ESPN outbids Fox for ACC television rights - Triangle Business Journal
 
#48
#48
jimmy hyams of the sports animal in knoxville, citing a source close to cbs, reported on friday that sec commissioner mike slive has already met with cbs officials (thanks to mrsec.com) regarding his league's plans for expansion. (presumably, there was some discussion about increasing the rights fees.) the plans, as always, are contingent on the big ten's going to 16 teams.

The source said that slive told cbs officials that his wish list included texas and texas a&m for the sec west and florida state and clemson for the sec east. If the lone star state schools don't want to play ball, then slive would turn to miami and georgia tech.

All these schools have been mentioned as possibilities before, but this is the first sort-of-confirmation we've had that they indeed are/will be targeted. (it would also explain slive's not-so-subtle overtures toward texas.) if true, it would seem to suggest that an acc/big east merger indeed could follow, assuming that the big ten started things off by taking three big east schools.

An sec spokesman later denied that a meeting or any discussions had taken place, but john pennington of mrsec vouches for hyams' credibility, saying, "he has 30 years of sec contacts and a reputation for caring more about accuracy than ratings."
Click to expand...

-espn
 
#49
#49
Bump.

Could Oklahoma join the SEC?

Stoops said Tuesday night he thinks Oklahoma would "be pretty attractive" to any conference, considering its TV appeal, a run of appearances in the Bowl Championship Series and a streak of sellouts at its 85,000-seat stadium.

Stoops also believes the Big 12 could add new teams if needed "or if not, we may end up going somewhere else."
Click to expand...

Stoops seems totally up for a change..

Per ESPN
 
#50
#50
vol66 said:
I think it's looking more and more like something is gonna happen. So here's my stab at a guess. First, I don't think there would be 2 divisions, I think there would be four. Second, I don't think we'd add teams from states where we already have a solid presence. Is GT or Clemson gonna get TV folks excited? It might look something like this...

DIV 1 -Texas,Texas A&M(or Oklahoma),Arkansas, LSU

DIV 2 -Alabama,Auburn,Ole Miss, Miss. St

Div 3 -Virginia Tech,Cincinatti,UK,Vandy

Div 4 -Florida,Tennesee,UGA,USCjr

Cincinatti is a pretty big market, VT is a market where the SEC has no presence, and obviously can you get Texas and Oklahoma/A&M to come over is the billion $ question.

Obviously, you could move some teams around, for instance, Tennessee might well fit in DIV 3 with VT in 4. I'm just saying it might look like this. Of course, keeping Alabama on our schedule and other rivalries at other schools would be important to maintain. I think that could be worked out.


Bash Away:)
Click to expand...

Why in the world would we want to keep Mississippi State and Vandy in the conference?
 
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