Sedition

#26
#26
volinbham said:
I understand but I think there's some over reaction going on here (in the original post). The liberal machine of the web did the exact same thing to tear down Bush and attack EVERY policy decision he made. This group pulled as much for failure in the economy and Iraq as the current righties are.

If Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are seditious than it's time to go after Al Franken, the Daily Kos folks, the Dem Underground, MoveOn, Arianna Huffington, etc.
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I hope that ones political opinions are not formed by the web or the talking heads of either party.Why would one try to get truth from those who are experienced in pure rhetoric.On the other hand C-span is not much better,maybe even worse.I prefer a program that presents both views and leaves the formation of opinions to the individual.I would love it if both parties did away with such tatics.This country would be a better place if they did.
 
#28
#28
lawgator1 said:
What kind of over-simiplified, canned, third grade logic is this? Must have come directly from Beck or Boortz or someone equivalent.

Do you evcen know what "blood money" is? Do you have any clue as to what was spent in Iraq? Talk about blood money....
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Interestingly, the 2 totals are identical - Iraq spending will reach about $800 billion by March of this year.
 
#29
#29
orangeblooded2 said:
I hope that ones political opinions are not formed by the web or the talking heads of either party.Why would one try to get truth from those who are experienced in pure rhetoric.On the other hand C-span is not much better,maybe even worse.I prefer a program that presents both views and leaves the formation of opinions to the individual.I would love it if both parties did away with such tatics.This country would be a better place if they did.
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so then you'll be happy to pound LG over the head as he states explicitly that the talking heads are running the Republican Party, yet implies that the Democrats are more centered than that.
 
#31
#31
orangeblooded2 said:
I hope that ones political opinions are not formed by the web or the talking heads of either party.Why would one try to get truth from those who are experienced in pure rhetoric.On the other hand C-span is not much better,maybe even worse.I prefer a program that presents both views and leaves the formation of opinions to the individual.I would love it if both parties did away with such tatics.This country would be a better place if they did.
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I agree and believe many (most) on both sides agree. I'm responding to the OP's premise that somehow the right pundits are being seditious -- it smacks of the accusations made of war critics. It was wrong to say someone encouraging active protest and opposition to the war was being seditious. The same is true here.
 
#32
#32
At least some good will come from the money spent in Iraq. The spendulus money will be wasted completely.
 
#33
#33
volinbham said:
Interestingly, the 2 totals are identical - Iraq spending will reach about $800 billion by March of this year.
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therealUT said:
Do you have any clue as to what was spent in Iraq? $599 Billion is what I am tracking.
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On top of that, you are forgetting the lost productivity that will never be known.


Vol_4_Life said:
At least some good will come from the money spent in Iraq. The spendulus money will be wasted completely.
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I'll give you credit for not making things too complicated. Must be nice to get your life slogans off of the back of cereal boxes and your political opinions from 5 second snippets on the drive into work in the morning, caught as you drift through the a.m. stations between listening to "Walking on Sunshine" on your Ipod and the History of the World on tape, as read by Bill O'Reilly.
 
#34
#34
I'll give you credit for not making things too complicated. Must be nice to get your life slogans off of the back of cereal boxes and your political opinions from 5 second snippets on the drive into work in the morning, caught as you drift through the a.m. stations between listening to "Walking on Sunshine" on your Ipod and the History of the World on tape, as read by Bill O'Reilly.
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Yeah, I don't speak for the sake of hearing my own voice.
 
#36
#36
lawgator1 said:
On top of that, you are forgetting the lost productivity that will never be known.
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Care to enlighten us on that?

If we are including opportunity costs in the calculation we will see a tremendous amount in the current porkulus bill.
 
#37
#37
interesting LG that you claim the average american has revolted against all things republican and used this as a valid excuse as to why obama should be given wide support, yet the american public by a wide margin hates this stimulus bill and now that the republicans are voicing the will of hte people they are somehow doing a disservice?
 
#38
#38
Joe 5-pack (recession took 1 away) is against the porkulus bill because seditious mainstream Republicans have brainwashed them.
 
#41
#41
volinbham said:
Care to enlighten us on that?

If we are including opportunity costs in the calculation we will see a tremendous amount in the current porkulus bill.
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or maybe we should apply it to those lost in the Revolutionary, Civil and World wars.
 
#42
#42
Oh, I thought this was going to be a thread about Jimmy Carter, my bad, carry on.
 
#43
#43
droski said:
interesting LG that you claim the average american has revolted against all things republican and used this as a valid excuse as to why obama should be given wide support, yet the american public by a wide margin hates this stimulus bill and now that the republicans are voicing the will of hte people they are somehow doing a disservice?
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Many things in your statement deserve comment. I'll focus on two.

First, no one is obliged to support Obama or the stimulus package for one second if they don't like it or him. Let's be clear on that. At the same time, given the situation we are in, a good argument can be made that encouraging histrionics for the sake of ratings or because a person is in love with the power he has over so many that don't bother to learn facts on their own, is discouraging.

Anyone that does not believe that Limbaugh sees himself as the epitome (some would say caricature) of the 2009 Republican has not been paying attention.

Second, there is a bit of putting the cart before the horse here. Many who are part of the broad concensus you say is out there against the bill are against it because they are being told to be against it, and that's sort of my point. I do fault Obama's administration to a large degree on this point (and mentioned that the other day here in another thread). The bill (or packaged, i viewed in tandem with everything else) has been very poorly explained and even more poorly promoted.

But I hear this constant resonating theme from Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck, that the stimulus packaged includes provisions tantamount to outright "socialism" or universal health care and I keep waiting for an explanation on that which never comes. In the meantime, people are out there mindlessly repeating that claim, taking delight that it will fail and they will play a part in that, but without realizing the potential consequences if the effort does fail.

In short, beat up on the merits of parts of the bill all you want. I hate the pork provisions in it, just as much as you do. It is disgusting. But, Rush et al, stop painting with such broad brushes and give those provisions that deserve a chance a real chance.





volinbham said:
Joe 5-pack (recession took 1 away) is against the porkulus bill because seditious mainstream Republicans have brainwashed them.
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You take the point to the extreme of folly, but there's a lot of truth in what you say.


BigPapaVol said:
or maybe we should apply it to those lost in the Revolutionary, Civil and World wars.
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Comparing the Iraq war to the causes and justifications of those wars is like comparing ... well, its such a bad comparison I can't even come up with an analogy!
 
#44
#44
lawgator1 said:
Comparing the Iraq war to the causes and justifications of those wars is like comparing ... well, its such a bad comparison I can't even come up with an analogy!
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if it's that bad, just compare it to devolving this conversation to opportunity cost of lost soldiers.
 
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#45
#45
lawgator1 said:
Anyone that does not believe that Limbaugh sees himself as the epitome (some would say caricature) of the 2009 Republican has not been paying attention.
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While much of your wall of stuff there deserved comment, this was the height of the ridiculousness of the whole post. What in the hell do RL's delusions of grandeur have to do with where he stands in the world of policy making? Your fixation on Limbaugh and his peers is some sort of silly Quixotic fantasy that you have about shushing those who have gained an audience by espousing something different than that which you and your ACLU buddies would buy into.
 
#46
#46
lawgator1 said:
Many things in your statement deserve comment. I'll focus on two.

First, no one is obliged to support Obama or the stimulus package for one second if they don't like it or him. Let's be clear on that. At the same time, given the situation we are in, a good argument can be made that encouraging histrionics for the sake of ratings or because a person is in love with the power he has over so many that don't bother to learn facts on their own, is discouraging.
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What facts would one learn that WOULD make them vote for this turd obama has laid out? and the reason why many of us are against this is precisely because of the situation we are in. We only have so much money. Throwing $1 trillion down the hole is horrible for this country. we need to stop this theory that we need to do whatever obama wants just because "we need to do something."
 
#47
#47
lawgator1 said:
First, no one is obliged to support Obama or the stimulus package for one second if they don't like it or him. Let's be clear on that. At the same time, given the situation we are in, a good argument can be made that encouraging histrionics for the sake of ratings or because a person is in love with the power he has over so many that don't bother to learn facts on their own, is discouraging.

Apparently histrionics are okay for selling government programs but not criticizing them.

Anyone that does not believe that Limbaugh sees himself as the epitome (some would say caricature) of the 2009 Republican has not been paying attention.

BPV covered this - regardless of how RL sees himself it does not make him mainstream republican

Second, there is a bit of putting the cart before the horse here. Many who are part of the broad concensus you say is out there against the bill are against it because they are being told to be against it, and that's sort of my point. I do fault Obama's administration to a large degree on this point (and mentioned that the other day here in another thread). The bill (or packaged, i viewed in tandem with everything else) has been very poorly explained and even more poorly promoted.

Let's use your premise to look at Iraq war criticism. Apparently, many of those who were against the war or any Bush policy for that matter were only against it because left pundits told them to be against it. Your claim is ridiculous and shows contempt for people's ability to think for themselves. You claim to be able to come to your own conclusions - why not assume others can as well?


In short, beat up on the merits of parts of the bill all you want. I hate the pork provisions in it, just as much as you do. It is disgusting. But, Rush et al, stop painting with such broad brushes and give those provisions that deserve a chance a real chance.

Did you call out war critics that undermined efforts for it's success? Did you call out Clinton for giving a speech while in the Middle East that the war was a mistake (all the while getting ME support was critical to success). I must have missed your posts about this and your claims about such people's seditious behavior



You take the point to the extreme of folly, but there's a lot of truth in what you say.

Again, you insult the common man by suggesting they are too dumb to think for themselves. If only they could be as independent thinking as you.
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See comments in quote
 
#48
#48
BigPapaVol said:
While much of your wall of stuff there deserved comment, this was the height of the ridiculousness of the whole post. What in the hell do RL's delusions of grandeur have to do with where he stands in the world of policy making? Your fixation on Limbaugh and his peers is some sort of silly Quixotic fantasy that you have about shushing those who have gained an audience by espousing something different than that which you and your ACLU buddies would buy into.
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Limbaugh was quite vicious in his attacks on Republican senators who initially indicated that they liked parts of the bill or appreciated Obama's overtures towards them. Limbaugh derided all such efforts as "suckering" in some of those Republicans. Limbaugh also blasted Obama and his administration for noting that Limbaugh had engaged in this tactic of basically calling any Republican who supported the stimulus as a traitor.... And it has worked. Republican senators, afraid to earn the wrath of Limbaugh, have run back to the right. They no longer exercise their own judgment, just what Heir Limbaugh gives them room for (which ain't much). And now some Republican governors are turning down billions in desperately needed federal monies to maintain their own political hopes. It is no coincidence that Louisiana's governor is leading this charge, endearing himself to Limbaugh and his listeners.
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#49
#49
serious question. would you have voted for the stimulus bill? and if yes. why?

do you really think the average senator gives a flying F about rush? come on.
 
#50
#50
lawgator1 said:
Limbaugh was quite vicious in his attacks on Republican senators who initially indicated that they liked parts of the bill or appreciated Obama's overtures towards them. Limbaugh derided all such efforts as "suckering" in some of those Republicans. Limbaugh also blasted Obama and his administration for noting that Limbaugh had engaged in this tactic of basically calling any Republican who supported the stimulus as a traitor.... And it has worked. Republican senators, afraid to earn the wrath of Limbaugh, have run back to the right. They no longer exercise their own judgment, just what Heir Limbaugh gives them room for (which ain't much). And now some Republican governors are turning down billions in desperately needed federal monies to maintain their own political hopes. It is no coincidence that Louisiana's governor is leading this charge, endearing himself to Limbaugh and his listeners.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Or just maybe he doesn't want his aspirations of being president go down in a watery grave with this spending bill. Very little to do with Rush and every thing to do with having to answer to the people for supporting this garbage bill. Why take the money if strings are attached that will force you to spend more later and your state might have to come up with the funds themselves?

And just maybe these republicans who supported parts of the bill realized that any positive effect they might have on the economy would be more than canceled out by the pork in it. I just don't think Rush has the political power you give him credit for, after all it isn't he they will have to answer to it is the American people, of which just some happen to be listeners to Rush. Why would a politician risk putting his political career in jeopardy to satisfy a political commentator? Maybe, just maybe Rush is on the same side of the majority of the American people in this situation, regardless of their political affiliation. Many of those repubs who stated there were portions of the bill they agreed with had no way of knowing what other nonsense was included in the same bill, there just wasn't enough time to analyze everything, and this was by design.
 
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