Serious trouble for the GOP

#52
#52
wellway16 said:
As a younger, professional, black guy (if it matters), the GOP just doesn't speak for me, and more importantly, they seem to not even speak TO me.

If they were all business about national defense and fiscal responsibility (and practiced what they preached).....I would be more apt to potentially vote for them.

But when they wax on about stem cells, abortion, and affirmative action (a necessary evil when you listen to them speak in CODE long enough)...they flat lose me.

A guy like me basically has the choice to vote D or not vote at all.
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What is it about the democratic party that speaks to you? Do they not have their own "code" when speaking too or about minorities? For example does it not offend you that so much of their platform is based on the minority not being able to stack up with other or white students in school performance, work performance etc?

I know this would tick me off. Granted there is racism in this world but institutional racism is no longer widespread or rampant by any means. In fact the white race no longer holds a monopoly in racist views anymore. I would argue there are probably as many African American or Hispanic American racist in this country as there are White racists.

I am not trying to argue but wondering what your thoughts are. I agree that the republican party has not done a good job in pulling in Hispanic and African American voters in particular. Over the past 15 years they have started to make a push toward this end, it just hasn't gained much momentum to this point.
 
#53
#53
oklavol said:
Anyone, who can be on the air daily during Bush's administration, and not be critical of his leadership has little credibility. He might as well be the chairman for the Republican.
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Who are you speaking about?
 
#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
I think they have both.
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They have no more influence on the public than Olbermann or Maddow have. They are entertainment for the average republican. Only the poorly informed or ignorant actually buy into the majority of what they sell.
 
#55
#55
KB5252 said:
Who are you speaking about?
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The problem I have, from both sides actually, is that they are far more concerned about attacking the the other side than looking at the abysmal job their side is doing.

Foxnews during the Bush years did exactly this and anybody that can't see that is either not paying attention or blinded by partisanship. Same goes for MSNBC now with Obama...they forget about all the mistakes he is making and instead focus on the Repubs and their failures.
 
#56
#56
volinbham said:
Since you clearly aren't a Republican - how do you gleen this perceived power?
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They shamed a number of Republican Congresspersons, who originally supported the stimulus package, into voting against it.

They are all frequently invited to speak at major GOP events, RL most frequently.

There is obviously a talking points memorandum circulated to them at least weekly, if not daily, given that they often can be heard, within minutes of each other, quoting the exact same language from obscure papers or places. So obscure there is no way its coincidence.

They played a huge role in the tea parties.

Several of them occassionally go "on tour," appearing in forum events connected to the GOP or fundraising supporters.

Give me some time, I'll think of some others.
 
#57
#57
lawgator1 said:
They shamed a number of Republican Congresspersons, who originally supported the stimulus package, into voting against it.

Not sure about this one - can you back it up.

They are all frequently invited to speak at major GOP events, RL most frequently.

As are liberal commentators at Dem events - are they equally powerful? Michael Moore sat in the president's box at the Dem convention in 2004 - was he the power behind the Dems then?

There is obviously a talking points memorandum circulated to them at least weekly, if not daily, given that they often can be heard, within minutes of each other, quoting the exact same language from obscure papers or places. So obscure there is no way its coincidence.

Same is true for lib commentators - apparently you get copies too.

They played a huge role in the tea parties.

I thought the tea parties were sparsely attended and completely ineffectual (according to liberal talking point memos - see above). How is this a sign of power in the party?

Several of them occassionally go "on tour," appearing in forum events connected to the GOP or fundraising supporters.

Same for lib commentators.

Give me some time, I'll think of some others.
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Everything you've stated is true of liberal commentators - I can only assume you think they run the DNC.

Could it be that you are using the Dem talking points of trying to make RL the face of the GOP? Nah...you see the "truth".
 
#62
#62
KB5252 said:
What is it about the democratic party that speaks to you? Do they not have their own "code" when speaking too or about minorities? For example does it not offend you that so much of their platform is based on the minority not being able to stack up with other or white students in school performance, work performance etc?

I know this would tick me off. Granted there is racism in this world but institutional racism is no longer widespread or rampant by any means. In fact the white race no longer holds a monopoly in racist views anymore. I would argue there are probably as many African American or Hispanic American racist in this country as there are White racists.

I am not trying to argue but wondering what your thoughts are. I agree that the republican party has not done a good job in pulling in Hispanic and African American voters in particular. Over the past 15 years they have started to make a push toward this end, it just hasn't gained much momentum to this point.
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The school performance issue is pretty concrete to me. Its about exposure and inclusiveness from the minority (screw minority.....the poor) perspective. You're from Ashland City.......go spend a few hours in a Algebra II class at Brentwood High and then drive 15 miles up the road and spend a few hours in a class teaching the same subject at Maplewood......totally different world. And some of it is self-inflicted, but there is enough institutionalized racial issues still out there, even in the school system, that people don't take note of.

I grew up in the burbs, and I know that I was afforded opportunities that even cousins of mine in the inner-city weren't. And I'm still in my 20's, so this isn't some old school issue.

The way some Republicans talk.....they want to cut bait with the "lower class" and turn this into a survival of the fittest class warfare. That wouldn't be good for anyone. You can study history and see that wouldn't work forever...especially when you have a shrinking middle-class and high immigration numbers.......ask the Antionette's how that worked out in France.

Whites certainly don't hold a monopoly on racist views, but they hold a monopoly in decision making positions in gov't, healthcare, finance, and every other institution.........trust me, its hard to break in being black without a little "help".....even with a degree, because we all know 90% of the time, it is not what you know, but who you know.

AA really only encompasses the public service sector anyways.........

The Dems are far from perfect, but from my life experience (and that of my family), they are the much lesser of two evils.
 
#63
#63
if you bothered to study history, you'll note that it's always been the republicans supporting blacks.

they were the first party to have a black man on the ticket. the first party to have a black senator. Ulysses S. Grant signed the first civil rights legislation, the NAACP was co-founded by Republicans, MLK was a republican, republicans broke a democrat filibuster of the Civil Rights amendment. and so on.

I don't know of a single republican that wants to "cut bait" with the "lower class."

so what if they reject racial quotas? What happened to being judged on the content of one's character and not the color of one's skin? It's the democrats who play these unceasing games based on identity. How many rich white people were in Bill Clinton's cabinet? Who are Obama's closest advisers?
 
#64
#64
wellway16 said:
The school performance issue is pretty concrete to me. Its about exposure and inclusiveness from the minority (screw minority.....the poor) perspective. You're from Ashland City.......go spend a few hours in a Algebra II class at Brentwood High and then drive 15 miles up the road and spend a few hours in a class teaching the same subject at Maplewood......totally different world. And some of it is self-inflicted, but there is enough institutionalized racial issues still out there, even in the school system, that people don't take note of.

I grew up in the burbs, and I know that I was afforded opportunities that even cousins of mine in the inner-city weren't. And I'm still in my 20's, so this isn't some old school issue.

The way some Republicans talk.....they want to cut bait with the "lower class" and turn this into a survival of the fittest class warfare. That wouldn't be good for anyone. You can study history and see that wouldn't work forever...especially when you have a shrinking middle-class and high immigration numbers.......ask the Antionette's how that worked out in France.

Whites certainly don't hold a monopoly on racist views, but they hold a monopoly in decision making positions in gov't, healthcare, finance, and every other institution.........trust me, its hard to break in being black without a little "help".....even with a degree, because we all know 90% of the time, it is not what you know, but who you know.

AA really only encompasses the public service sector anyways.........

The Dems are far from perfect, but from my life experience (and that of my family), they are the much lesser of two evils.
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Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing your insights on it.

I particularly like your observation that whites don't hold a monopoly on racist attitudes but that they do generally wield a lot more power than minorities such that their racism is much more likely to be given effect.
 
#65
#65
MG1968 said:
if you bothered to study history, you'll note that it's always been the republicans supporting blacks.

they were the first party to have a black man on the ticket. the first party to have a black senator. Ulysses S. Grant signed the first civil rights legislation, the NAACP was co-founded by Republicans, MLK was a republican, republicans broke a democrat filibuster of the Civil Rights amendment. and so on.

I don't know of a single republican that wants to "cut bait" with the "lower class."

so what if they reject racial quotas? What happened to being judged on the content of one's character and not the color of one's skin? It's the democrats who play these unceasing games based on identity. How many rich white people were in Bill Clinton's cabinet? Who are Obama's closest advisers?
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The current atmosphere within the GOP towards issues that benefit minorities -- whether it be somewhat social, such as affirmative action, or more directly economic, such as social spending -- is just absolutely toxic to the black community. Probably will be to the brown soon, as well.
 
#66
#66
MG1968 said:
if you bothered to study history, you'll note that it's always been the republicans supporting blacks.

they were the first party to have a black man on the ticket. the first party to have a black senator. Ulysses S. Grant signed the first civil rights legislation, the NAACP was co-founded by Republicans, MLK was a republican, republicans broke a democrat filibuster of the Civil Rights amendment. and so on.

I don't know of a single republican that wants to "cut bait" with the "lower class."

so what if they reject racial quotas? What happened to being judged on the content of one's character and not the color of one's skin? It's the democrats who play these unceasing games based on identity. How many rich white people were in Bill Clinton's cabinet? Who are Obama's closest advisers?
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This is a good point. I think there is a certain sense of exploitation from the left on this issue. The affirmitive action stuff is bogus. Black, white, red, yellow, green, gay, straight, religious, non-religious...whatever...whoever is best qualified should be hired, admitted, chosen, etc. Accepting racial quotas is more enabling a problem than solving it.
 
#69
#69
Convenient how someone ignores the fact that Obama was on the verge of ending vouchers in DC. Basically the vouchers program was the only way Blacks in DC managed to get out of the pathetic excuse for schools there. The voucher programs gave these kids a chance to get an education to the level many elected officials' kids have. Obama was all about pleasing the unions over giving these kids a chance at a decent education. Only after local leaders begged and pleaded on local and national TV did Obama change his mind.

If we want to talk about whites holding key positions let's take a look at the actual situation. Who runs the schools in Detroit, Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, Philly? Who runs the governments in many of these cities with the greatest issues of crime, poverty, and illiteracy? You mention going up the road to a poor Black neighborhood after venturing to Brentwood. While you are there, make sure you go to City Hall and the School Board and see who runs those cities and schools. You won't find Republicans in control of policy. But you do find failure. I do find Republicans greatly influencing education at the state level in a similar method to DC - give these kids a chance to go to other schools in outlying areas or private schools. Republicans seem to be the ones giving the option for poor in inner cities to get a decent education. I see Democrats loyally protecting public school failure and unions.
 
#70
#70
lawgator1 said:
The current atmosphere within the GOP towards issues that benefit minorities -- whether it be somewhat social, such as affirmative action, or more directly economic, such as social spending -- is just absolutely toxic to the black community. Probably will be to the brown soon, as well.
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Yes because those Democrats running those communities are doing such a top notch job....
 
#71
#71
lawgator1 said:
The current atmosphere within the GOP towards issues that benefit minorities -- whether it be somewhat social, such as affirmative action, or more directly economic, such as social spending -- is just absolutely toxic to the black community. Probably will be to the brown soon, as well.
Click to expand...

I agree somewhat, but at some point, self-reliance has to take over. As long as there is no discrimination, the quotas don't really help anything.
 
#72
#72
The Republicans of the 19th Century would be moderate democrats today. The thing is, the Republican Party, especially the Southern Republicans are all descendants of the Dixiecrats of the 1950's and 1960's.

They were all Democrats (Strom, George Wallace, etc) until the Civil Rights Movement...........that speaks volumes on how that group felt about people like me!!!!

And the Trent Lott's and those guys carried the torch and now people like that Warner guy in SCAR are just the next generation of that group. Not a very minority-friendly caucas there.
 
#73
#73
wellway16 said:
The Republicans of the 19th Century would be moderate democrats today. The thing is, the Republican Party, especially the Southern Republicans are all descendants of the Dixiecrats of the 1950's and 1960's.

They were all Democrats (Strom, George Wallace, etc) until the Civil Rights Movement...........that speaks volumes on how that group felt about people like me!!!!

And the Trent Lott's and those guys carried the torch and now people like that Warner guy in SCAR are just the next generation of that group. Not a very minority-friendly caucas there.
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how do you feel about democrats comparing George Tiller to MLK?
 
#74
#74
MG1968 said:
how do you feel about democrats comparing George Tiller to MLK?
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Don't agree with it, but certainly don't agree with the atmosphere that the far reaches of the Right wing fostered, that allowed a renowned doctor to be killed in cold blood.

Its just plain sickening....the Religious Far Right scares me more than any thug in Orange Mound. And this is coming from someone who was raised by a healthy sect of 24/7 Christians.
 
#75
#75
wellway16 said:
Don't agree with it, but certainly don't agree with the atmosphere that the far reaches of the Right wing fostered, that allowed a renowned doctor to be killed in cold blood.

Its just plain sickening....the Religious Far Right scares me more than any thug in Orange Mound. And this is coming from someone who was raised by a healthy sect of 24/7 Christians.
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What about domestic groups who are shooting soliders in recruiting offices or trying to buy stinger missiles from undercover officers? Or a preacher saying them Jews won't let Obama talk to him? In the words of rjd, we need to make sure racism and terror gets a fair looking over.

Add to the fact you cannot stereotype an entire group based on the actions of one people. Fearing the far right based on a few people is about as bigoted as well.
 
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