Shooting in El Paso

[Orange_Vol1321]

I remember I used to laugh at how obviously coordinated the Bush administration talking points were. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, W, etc would all use the exact same turns of phrase. It felt amateurish, but the administration at least presented a unified position. This administration is just a bunch of people doin' their own thang.

So then you laugh at CNN, MSNBC, PBS, CBS, NBC, ABC, WAPO, NYT etc. everyday sounding like a broken record.

 

[InVOLuntary]

yes according to the news media

And anyone that wants legal immigration is a racist too. Hey but Trump need to tone down his rhetoric.

 

[InVOLuntary]

A fine group of people in this thread. Slice - racism doesn't exist. Joe - everyone is racist but me. Hog - I'm fine with it. Invol - I need a precise definition of racism.

Mick: anyone that doesn't agree with me is a racist.

 

[GAVol]

Rights can be denied... According to federal law, individuals cannot buy a gun if a court or other authority has deemed them to be a "mental defective" or committed them involuntarily to a mental hospital.

Thats a far cry from denying rights due to finances.

 

[AirVol]

Mick: anyone that doesn't agree with me is a racist.

Usually the excuse for losing a debate.

 

[happy-go_vol]

I dont see why people dont murder the Baltimore and chicago way, a couple and there over a few weeks time frame.

 

[ajvol01]

A fine group of people in this thread. Slice - racism doesn't exist. Joe - everyone is racist but me. Hog - I'm fine with it. Invol - I need a precise definition of racism.

When you call everyone and everything you disagree with racist / racism then what do you expect?

 

[AirVol]

The lefts mindset is being a victim is superior to defending yourself and family. Guns are bad.

 

[hndog609]

Rights can be denied... According to federal law, individuals cannot buy a gun if a court or other authority has deemed them to be a "mental defective" or committed them involuntarily to a mental hospital.

The criteria is a bit more defined that what you appear to be positing. Per ATF form 4473.
11(f)
Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? Y/N
Question 11.f. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

You need to understand the resistance to having someone excluded from an enumerated right based on what someone else defines. Hell, why not just decide all Gator fans are "mentally defective" and start denying them things as a matter of law? Look, nobody...and I do mean nobody...wants legitimately crazy people with butter knives much less anything worse, but anything that can have "political agenda" and "Bill of Rights" canoodling together deserves the most extreme of scrutiny.

 

[lawgator1]

That will go down in history as perhaps the worst presidential speech of all time

 

[volfanjustin]

When you call everyone and everything you disagree with racist / racism then what do you expect?

It’s what they have watched their favorite radical politicians and members of the anti American media do for decades, so they don’t know how else to debate

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Apparently The Democrats Front Runner Sleepy Joe Biden doesn't know where these shootings took place.
It's the old line from a few years back from a contender saying: Who am I & why am I here moment.

Confusion: Biden offers sympathy for the ‘tragic events in Houston today and also in Michigan’

 

[evillawyer]

That will go down in history as perhaps the worst presidential speech of all time

I'm not watching, but I heard he actually condemned white supremacy. That's a big step for him ... Assuming he did have his fingers crossed when h said it.

 

[volfanjustin]

That will go down in history as perhaps the worst presidential speech of all time

You had that comment queued up before he ever started speaking so no one outside of septic and mick doesnt really value your opinion much

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

That will go down in history as perhaps the worst presidential speech of all time

 

[lawgator1]

He blamed the internet and video games and said we need to do more about mental illness. He then took some credit for bump stock ban a year ago. Nothing about moving forward with more gun control and he actually took all blame away from guns. Also no taking of personal responsuibility for himself promoting messages of hate.

 

[Mick]

When you call everyone and everything you disagree with racist / racism then what do you expect?

I must have missed where this shooting wasn't racist. Any deviation from this being a racist shooting is idiotic.
Why the deflections?

It has everything to do with the politicization of mass shootings and gun control.

Why aren’t the politicians addressing the gun violence in Chicago?

Is it because of race? Is it because there’s usually no “assault weapon” used?

Why are the victims of gun violence in Chicago largely ignored by the media?

 

[BowlBrother85]

You had that comment queued up before he ever started speaking so no one outside of septic and mick doesnt really value your opinion much

I think the content was adequate... it just didn't flow. It was disjointed. He was reading a prepared statement, and he looked unfamiliar with it. Trump is out of practice with press conferences. He doesn't give many of them.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

The criteria is a bit more defined that what you appear to be positing. Per ATF form 4473.
11(f)
Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? Y/N
Question 11.f. Adjudicated as a Mental Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility.

You need to understand the resistance to having someone excluded from an enumerated right based on what someone else defines. Hell, why not just decide all Gator fans are "mentally defective" and start denying them things as a matter of law? Look, nobody...and I do mean nobody...wants legitimately crazy people with butter knives much less anything worse, but anything that can have "political agenda" and "Bill of Rights" canoodling together deserves the most extreme of scrutiny.

Good read.



Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common (and it isn’t guns)




As I said, I leave it to the individual readers to make up their own minds if Noveske suffered a similar fate. On to the list of mass shooters and the stark link to psychotropic drugs.

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded.

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.



Missing from list… 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….

What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado?

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?

Those focusing on further firearms bans or magazine restrictions are clearly focusing on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions, either as a deliberate attempt to hide these links, or out of complete and utter ignorance.

Don’t let them! Force our elected “representatives” and the media to cast a harsh spotlight on this issue. Don’t stop hounding them until they do.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

He blamed the internet and video games and said we need to do more about mental illness. He then took some credit for bump stock ban a year ago. Nothing about moving forward with more gun control and he actually took all blame away from guns. Also no taking of personal responsuibility for himself promoting messages of hate.

Yeah, so weird that he didn't blame inanimate objects for the actions of an individual.

 

[Mick]

He blamed the internet and video games and said we need to do more about mental illness. He then took some credit for bump stock ban a year ago. Nothing about moving forward with more gun control and he actually took all blame away from guns. Also no taking of personal responsuibility for himself promoting messages of hate.

What happened to that saying "video games don't kill people, people kill people."?

 

[Septic]

Fear is the best thing for gun stocks. Trump leg-humpers think their toys are going to be taken away, so they shift funds allocated for Mountain Dew and pork rinds to guns.

Hell, mass shootings are a gold mine for gun manufacturers.

 

[n_huffhines]

Never let a tragedy go to waste

 

[BowlBrother85]

Good read.



Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common (and it isn’t guns)




As I said, I leave it to the individual readers to make up their own minds if Noveske suffered a similar fate. On to the list of mass shooters and the stark link to psychotropic drugs.

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded.

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.



Missing from list… 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….

What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado?

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?

Those focusing on further firearms bans or magazine restrictions are clearly focusing on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions, either as a deliberate attempt to hide these links, or out of complete and utter ignorance.

Don’t let them! Force our elected “representatives” and the media to cast a harsh spotlight on this issue. Don’t stop hounding them until they do.

That is definitely not every mass shooting or even among the worst since Trump took office in 2017... What about Stephen Paddock at Mandalay Bay? What about Devin Kelley and the Sutherland Springs, Texas Church shooting? They both killed more than 25 people... about a month apart.

 

[0nelilreb]

He blamed the internet and video games and said we need to do more about mental illness. He then took some credit for bump stock ban a year ago. Nothing about moving forward with more gun control and he actually took all blame away from guns. Also no taking of personal responsuibility for himself promoting messages of hate.

Well any sensible person would take the blame way from guns . A gun is just an object . No feelz, No ability to reason , No likes or dislikes . A gun has no affiliation with any political parties , No religion . It’s an object . Stop trying to make it about the gun .