Should U.S. Swap ‘Merchant of Death’ for Brittney Griner?

[hog88]

She's not special. She's just high profile. This is the way the world works. High profile people get more attention and the large majority of people who give attention agree that the high profile person is not more special, we're just more aware. Caring about suffering people you are aware of has no bearing on suffering people you are not aware of, and vice versa.

I can't believe we're in like day 45 of this and people are still coming ITT to repeat the point they've already made several times that she's not special...as if making that point is way more important than supporting her human rights.

If they do a prisoner swap for her and leave other Americans behind that have been there longer she is being treated special.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

She's not special. She's just high profile. This is the way the world works. High profile people get more attention and the large majority of people who give attention agree that the high profile person is not more special, we're just more aware. Caring about suffering people you are aware of has no bearing on suffering people you are not aware of, and vice versa.

I can't believe we're in like day 45 of this and people are still coming ITT to repeat the point they've already made several times that she's not special...as if making that point is way more important than supporting her human rights.

Correct me if I am wrong but you are doing the same thing right?

 

[n_huffhines]

If they do a prisoner swap for her and leave other Americans behind that have been there longer she is being treated special.

No ****. Wow. This point again.

You didn't care about any of them until this story came along. You just use them so that you don't have to give a **** about her.

 

[n_huffhines]

Correct me if I am wrong but you are doing the same thing right?

Repeated a point in this thread? I would bet on it. We all repeat ourselves, but my point is people are repeating themselves again and again about something that never once needed to be said on VN. Last time when I asked him "who thinks she's special?" he ****ing quoted Lebron, LOL. And he's still in here with this ****.

Has anybody here even advocated a prisoner swap?

 

[hog88]

No ****. Wow. This point again.

You didn't care about any of them until this story came along. You just use them so that you don't have to give a **** about her.

True, I didn't care because I had no idea there were so many Americans being held over there on BS charges. True, I don't care about her individually and do not think she deserves any more effort by the .gov to free her than the other Americans being held. If her detention leads to our .gov working out a deal to bring them all home then great, I will applaud our governments efforts. If they just bring her home it the .gov will deserve extreme criticism.

 

[hog88]

Repeated a point in this thread? I would bet on it. We all repeat ourselves, but my point is people are repeating themselves again and again about something that never once needed to be said on VN. Last time when I asked him "who thinks she's special?" he ****ing quoted Lebron, LOL. And he's still in here with this ****.

Has anybody here even advocated a prisoner swap?

Yes

Just do the trade.

You people really think the Merchant of Death is the only kind of his like in Russia?

Yes Brittany was an idiot, and probably feels like a dumbass for her anti American rhetoric. But we're talking about someone's life.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

Honestly my biggest hang up is the fact we are willing to move heaven and earth for her while we have thousands that are being held on weed charges here. How do you reconcile that?

 

[n_huffhines]

Yes

My bad.

That guy doesn't even know what the trade is. BG for MoD is not on the table.

 

[n_huffhines]

Honestly my biggest hang up is the fact we are willing to move heaven and earth for her while we have thousands that are being held on weed charges here. How do you reconcile that?

Yeah, it's weird.

We got Enes Kanter Freedom shaming us because we don't know what dictatorships are like, meanwhile we got more people in prison on drug charges than any other country in the world.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Honestly my biggest hang up is the fact we are willing to move heaven and earth for her while we have thousands that are being held on weed charges here. How do you reconcile that?

Legalize pot. Some laws shouldn't apply any longer.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

Legalize pot. Some laws shouldn't apply any longer.

Well yeah. Lol

 

[EasternVol]

She's not special. She's just high profile. This is the way the world works. High profile people get more attention and the large majority of people who give attention agree that the high profile person is not more special, we're just more aware. Caring about suffering people you are aware of has no bearing on suffering people you are not aware of, and vice versa.

I can't believe we're in like day 45 of this and people are still coming ITT to repeat the point they've already made several times that she's not special...as if making that point is way more important than supporting her human rights.

It's been said, but Griner got what people get for bringing hash oil into Russia. She's not wrongly convicted nor punished exceptionally harshly. Human rights don't play into her situation. So why make a special effort just for her? Unless we try to spring all Americans locked up abroad, and we can't and won't and shouldn't, there no reason to trade for her release other than political gain.

 

[n_huffhines]

It's been said, but Griner got what people get for bringing hash oil into Russia. She's not wrongly convicted nor punished exceptionally harshly. Human rights don't play into her situation. So why make a special effort just for her? Unless we try to spring all Americans locked up abroad, and we can't and won't and shouldn't, there no reason to trade for her release other than political gain.

Of course it's a matter of human rights. People should be free, not caged because they have hash. Just because the law condones the violation of her human rights doesn't mean that it's not a violation.

9 years for hurting nobody isn't exceptionally harsh? Good Lord, dude.

 

[85SugarVol]

Of course it's a matter of human rights. People should be free, not caged because they have hash. Just because the law condones the violation of her human rights doesn't mean that it's not a violation.

9 years for hurting nobody isn't exceptionally harsh? Good Lord, dude.

Should Griner be freed before the others?

 

[n_huffhines]

Should Griner be freed before the others?

IDK anything about the others. If I were a decision-maker, I would prioritize them by feasibility and injustice. I imagine she's on the higher end of the injustice meter, but I don't really know. I know of only the ex-marine accused of spying. IDK if he's guilty, but I understand them punishing spies. I do not understand this. The feasibility end is difficult for me to know or understand since I have no idea what the negotiation environment is like. Again, with the ex-marine example...is a spy harder to get back than a high-profile, lesbian American* athlete who did nothing wrong?

*In a sense, she is special because these are three reasons why Russia would make an example of her.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Of course it's a matter of human rights. People should be free, not caged because they have hash. Just because the law condones the violation of her human rights doesn't mean that it's not a violation.

9 years for hurting nobody isn't exceptionally harsh? Good Lord, dude.

Nancy Griner's opinion vs. Russian law. Wonder who wins that?

 

[82_VOL_83]

IDK anything about the others. If I were a decision-maker, I would prioritize them by feasibility and injustice. I imagine she's on the higher end of the injustice meter, but I don't really know. I know of only the ex-marine accused of spying. IDK if he's guilty, but I understand them punishing spies. I do not understand this. The feasibility end is difficult for me to know or understand since I have no idea what the negotiation environment is like. Again, with the ex-marine example...is a spy harder to get back than a high-profile, lesbian American* athlete who did nothing wrong?

*In a sense, she is special because these are three reasons why Russia would make an example of her.

You are losing your argument. You should just stop.

 

[BreatheUT]

Yeah, it's weird.

We got Enes Kanter Freedom shaming us because we don't know what dictatorships are like, meanwhile we got more people in prison on drug charges than any other country in the world.

Maybe because we have the biggest drug problem in the world which leads to other crimes?

 

[C-south]

Honestly my biggest hang up is the fact we are willing to move heaven and earth for her while we have thousands that are being held on weed charges here. How do you reconcile that?

Keep them all locked up.

 

[EasternVol]

Of course it's a matter of human rights. People should be free, not caged because they have hash. Just because the law condones the violation of her human rights doesn't mean that it's not a violation.

9 years for hurting nobody isn't exceptionally harsh? Good Lord, dude.

There are those that say 10 years for bank robbery is too long. How about bank robber human rights? And extortionists, etc.
'Exceptionally' in my previous post was meant as 'compared to others who did the same crime in the same olace.
I think any penalty for weed or weed deritives is too harsh; it should be as legal as water.

 

[Gandalf]

Much better write up than most that actually understands what is going on. Prison Swaps, Putin Style - The Moscow Times - an excerpt:

A prisoner exchange with Ukraine on September 7, 2019, had been designed as a triumph for the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky, who had been in office for only a few months.

It was a massive swap involving 35 people on each side. Zelensky was liberating a group of Ukrainian sailors and a famous film director, Oleg Sentsov. He personally supervised the difficult negotiations and was so happy to get his people back that announced the swap on his way to the airport, but before the handover. That was an error.

Putin immediately raised the stakes, demanding one more prisoner to be added to the list — Vladimir Tsemakh, a Russian-backed separatist from Eastern Ukraine, who was a key witness to the downing of Flight MH-17 by a Russian missile in 2014.

The Dutch, who were leading the investigation into the atrocity, asked Zelensky to refuse, but to no avail. The Ukrainian leader felt trapped – having already announced the swap, he had no way to back down.

The way Putin played the game was seen by many in Moscow as proof that Vladimir Putin had become the master, indeed possessed truly unrivaled skills, in the trading of human beings.

By adding Tsemakh to the list at the last moment, he significantly undermined the international investigation of the downing of MH-17 and learned an important lesson. In this kind of game, authoritarian leaders have an advantage over democrats. Unlike them, they don’t need to worry about public opinion. More than that, the greater the publicity surrounding the negotiations, the greater the pressure on democratic leaders to yield to the ever-increasing demands of dictators.

Putin’s tactics also incorporate lessons from the Chechen experience; that in this kind of game, the more brutality the better. This explains why Brittney Griner was sentenced to nine years in prison, at the high end of the tariff for her offense of possessing cannabis oil. That Russian prisons are notorious for their brutal and inhumane conditions only improves Putin’s hand. He knows that the more public the case becomes, the greater the opportunity to raise the stakes and demand more high-value agents in Western prisons.

Putin has already begun playing this game, demanding the release of Vadim Krasikov, a Russian assassin who murdered a Chechen warlord in Berlin in broad daylight, and who has been in a German jail since 2019.

And that means the West should be ready for the next logical step; that the Kremlin will once again seek to build a new “bank of hostages,” filled not with Chechens but with Westerners.

 

[NCFisher]

Should U.S. Swap ‘Merchant of Death’ for Brittney Griner?


The WNBA is a running, perpetual murder of basketball, so why not?

 

[Franklin Pierce]

REVEALED: Megan Rapinoe 'told Joe Biden to do MORE to free Brittney Griner' when he phoned her with the news she was going to be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom

US Soccer star Megan Rapinoe last month urged President Joe Biden in a phone call to do more to secure the release of Brittney Griner from her detention in Russia.

According to Politico, Rapinoe made the request when Biden called her to inform her she would be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom - the highest honor bestowed upon a civilian in America.

Since then, reports have surfaced of the possible prisoner swap with Griner and Paul Whelan, a former US marine who is held in Russia.

On Thursday, Russia's foreign ministry said it was engaged in 'quiet diplomacy' over the possible swap involving Griner.

'Quiet diplomacy is under way and it should bear fruit if Washington follows it, and not fall into propaganda through media hype to score points before an election,' said Ivan Nechayev, a spokesman for the Russian foreign ministry, referring to the midterm elections in November.

Megan Rapinoe 'told Joe Biden to do MORE to free Brittney Griner' in phone call | Daily Mail Online

 

[volfanhill]

REVEALED: Megan Rapinoe 'told Joe Biden to do MORE to free Brittney Griner' when he phoned her with the news she was going to be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom

US Soccer star Megan Rapinoe last month urged President Joe Biden in a phone call to do more to secure the release of Brittney Griner from her detention in Russia.

According to Politico, Rapinoe made the request when Biden called her to inform her she would be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom - the highest honor bestowed upon a civilian in America.

Since then, reports have surfaced of the possible prisoner swap with Griner and Paul Whelan, a former US marine who is held in Russia.

On Thursday, Russia's foreign ministry said it was engaged in 'quiet diplomacy' over the possible swap involving Griner.

'Quiet diplomacy is under way and it should bear fruit if Washington follows it, and not fall into propaganda through media hype to score points before an election,' said Ivan Nechayev, a spokesman for the Russian foreign ministry, referring to the midterm elections in November.

Megan Rapinoe 'told Joe Biden to do MORE to free Brittney Griner' in phone call | Daily Mail Online

Revealed! Oh no. She shared her opinion. Damn that lesbian.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Is America about to hand the World's Most Notorious Arms Dealer over to Russia? As 'The Merchant of Death', he Sold Arsenals of Weapons to Corrupt Regimes before being caught in a dramatic sting. But There's A Chilling Twist, writes TOM LEONARD

No matter how lavish the accommodation laid on for him by his grateful clients, Viktor Bout preferred to bed down at night with his helicopter crew, sleeping as close as possible to a chopper that was ready to fly in minutes. In his line of work, a fast getaway was essential.

As the world’s most notorious international arms dealer, for decades he ‘got away’ with supplying ruthless warlords, terrorists and criminals with weapons that allowed them to inflict untold suffering across the globe.

The shadowy Tajikistani businessman and alleged Soviet spy was famously dubbed ‘the merchant of death’ by British foreign minister Peter Hain and ‘the personification of evil’ by a senior U.S. diplomat — even though Bout was so adept at covering his tracks, the American government unwittingly used his private fleet of 30 transport planes.

Bout had a unique reputation for being a ‘one-stop shop’ for the world’s worst warmongers: he could get anything for anyone and, crucially, transport it any time and anywhere. He did this by exploiting the vast arsenals left behind after the collapse of the Soviet Union, so he provided everything from tens of thousands of assault rifles at a time to helicopter gunships and surface-to-air missiles.

Until his arrest in 2008 following an extraordinary sting operation in Thailand, Bout, 55, earned hundreds of millions of pounds from clients who allegedly included Libya’s Colonel Gaddafi, the Taliban and even al-Qaeda, although he denies supplying the latter two. In Afghanistan, weapons sold by Bout were almost certainly used against British and U.S. troops.

His most devastating effect was on Africa, where he turned machete-wielding thugs into killing machines armed with rockets, machine guns and assault rifles. Even if he wasn’t there in person, said a senior U.S. official, Bout ‘slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocents with his weapons’. He would mostly be paid in so-called blood diamonds, mined in war zones and sold to finance wars.

Viktor Bout was arrested in Thailand at the request of US officials in 2008. He has been incarcerated ever since, and may now be released in a prisoner swap

Since 2011, when he was convicted in New York of conspiring to kill Americans, selling anti-aircraft missiles and aiding terrorists, and given a 25-year prison sentence, Bout has been behind bars in the U.S. and the world has been spared his poisonous services.

But he may not be for much longer.

Is America about to hand the world's most notorious arms dealer 'Merchant of Death' over to Russia? | Daily Mail Online