So proud of my home state

#276
#276
WoodsmanVol said:
I can't and refuse to speak for OrangeTsar. I don't know HIS motivation, but I know mine. If you look, really look, at the decline and eventual fall of Rome, you will see the sort of "freedom" you appear to condone, was a major part of that fall. They sunk further, and further into debauchery and decadency, and I guess what you'd call intra-sexuality. Even Paul mentions it in the book of Acts and elsewhere. That along with the utter corruption of its political leaders, constant wars, crime, and outright bigotry. The USA is following the path as if it is a blueprint for collapse right now. Cheered on by those who don't realize or care where it's leading. Our motivation, I'm certain is different, greatly so, but for once, I agree with OrangeTsar.
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The decay of Roman moral etc is a nonsense scape goat for the the fall of the empire. I can just as easily blame it on the rise and establishment of Christianity. The truth is it was war and political corruption that caused its fall
 
#277
#277
OrangeTsar said:
I asked for examples of government voluntarily shrinking its SCOPE AND REACH. Did Canada or Sweden repeal any laws? Shutter any government Departments? Lay off government employees? I appreciate your attempt but I believe you misaprehended the types of examples for which I was seeking. Tell me a government that once regulated or controlled something which they no longer do. Prohibition would be one example in which the US government laid down a power (and they did this under duress of a Constitutional Amendment, not out of a desire to govern less). Have you read or watched Lord of the Rings? Do you understand WHY Gandalf refused the one ring? Power, even when it begins with a desire to do good, eventually decays into something fetid and clawing unless it is actively and constantly pruned back by a vigilant populace acting through honest representatives. I would propose that the US is not operating under a very stellar record in that regard at least since the Great Society years of LBJ. And I am not directing this criticism solely at the Democrats. Republicans routinely and consistently bow down at the alter of power alongside their Democrat partners
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The Great Society time, was a nice idea. But I saw up close and personal what a massive waste of money it was. How I saw a lot of money spent, though I was eyewitness, even would say I was a liar if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes. Once, ONCE only, when I spoke up about it, here's what I was told by my bosses. That's right, bosses. If we don't spend this money, they will reduce the amount we receive in the fiscal year, figuring we didn't need we previously received. In a nutshell, they were saying, the program would be punished for saving money. I left my employ with them because I knew it was going to backfire. Sure enough, they faced an investigation, and several dismissals. But there were other places just as wasteful. In some cases, brand-new merchandise was dumped in trash bins. Not to mention how many bigshots simply pocket massive sums of cash.
 
#278
#278
volfanhill said:
The decay of Roman moral etc is a nonsense scape goat for the the fall of the empire. I can just as easily blame it on the rise and establishment of Christianity. The truth is it was war and political corruption that caused its fall
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The collapse wasn't sudden, not due to a single factor, it took place over a period of time, and the wrong turns were cumulative. But go ahead and do your thing, it won't make a difference with me.
 
#279
#279
volfanhill said:
Where did I say that? Your 2-4% claim is laughable
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You're response is idiotic and exactly why we are where we are.
Not even the biggest fool in the PF believes there is a quick fix.
The only rational approach is to stop the bleeding and reverse the trend.

It will take years.
 
#280
#280
hog88 said:
Cuts or reductions in increases?
Let me help: If dept A had a budget of $100 last year a 2% cut would mean they only get $98 this year
If dept A had a budget of $100 last year but planned to increase the budget by 50% but they reduced that by 2% the dept would have $149 to spend.
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LOL.......and water is wet.
A 2% cut in either scenario would be better than no cut in either scenario.
Surely we can all agree on that.
For the sake of the argument, I would say a 2% cut to the current fiscal budget.
Make it 3% and the military 6%.
We call that negotiation, compromise, and working across the aisle. Something few on here support.
 
#282
#282
luthervol said:
You're response is idiotic and exactly why we are where we are.
Not even the biggest fool in the PF believes there is a quick fix.
The only rational approach is to stop the bleeding and reverse the trend.

It will take years.
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You personally couldn't reduce your expenditures by 2-3% per year? That is sad, but speaks to the inefficiency of gov..like PolySCi 101...and your Fail Bigly
 
#283
#283
luthervol said:
LOL.......and water is wet.
A 2% cut in either scenario would be better than no cut in either scenario.
Surely we can all agree on that.
For the sake of the argument, I would say a 2% cut to the current fiscal budget.
Make it 3% and the military 6%.
We call that negotiation, compromise, and working across the aisle. Something few on here support.
Click to expand...

You are the king of tap dancing.

Cut actual spending (not the rate of increase) in every agency department by 15% to start. Better yet start with a zero based budget and when that is done cut 15% off of that.
 
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#284
#284
OrangeTsar said:
I asked for examples of government voluntarily shrinking its SCOPE AND REACH. Did Canada or Sweden repeal any laws? Shutter any government Departments? Lay off government employees? I appreciate your attempt but I believe you misaprehended the types of examples for which I was seeking. Tell me a government that once regulated or controlled something which they no longer do. Prohibition would be one example in which the US government laid down a power (and they did this under duress of a Constitutional Amendment, not out of a desire to govern less). Have you read or watched Lord of the Rings? Do you understand WHY Gandalf refused the one ring? Power, even when it begins with a desire to do good, eventually decays into something fetid and clawing unless it is actively and constantly pruned back by a vigilant populace acting through honest representatives. I would propose that the US is not operating under a very stellar record in that regard at least since the Great Society years of LBJ. And I am not directing this criticism solely at the Democrats. Republicans routinely and consistently bow down at the alter of power alongside their Democrat partners
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US. Airline industry came immediately to mind......thanks Jimmy Carter!
 
#285
#285
Orangeburst said:
You personally couldn't reduce your expenditures by 2-3% per year? That is sad, but speaks to the inefficiency of gov..like PolySCi 101...and your Fail Bigly
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Of course I could. What in the world are you talking about??????????????
 
#286
#286
I guarantee the average American is cutting back due to inflation.

This next recession is going to be some history study of psychology when Sugar Daddy is out of sugar. The idiots will; double their CC debt..incredible.
 
#288
#288
hog88 said:
You are the king of tap dancing.

Cut actual spending (not the rate of increase) in every agency department by 15% to start. Better yet start with a zero based budget and when that is done cut 15% off of that.
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Never going to happen.
Let's deal in something a tad more realistic.
Would you rather see the agencies continue to grow as they have, or have 2% cuts?
 
#289
#289
luthervol said:
You're response is idiotic and exactly why we are where we are.
Not even the biggest fool in the PF believes there is a quick fix.
The only rational approach is to stop the bleeding and reverse the trend.

It will take years.
Click to expand...
No. We are where we are bc of insane spending. You openly claimed a 2-4% reduction was more than enough. Go read what you posted. It is not. And it's stupid to say otherwise. It's also disingenuous to try to sell that " 2-4%" is what's enough to the American people in an effort to appease them.
 
#291
#291
Government is 26% of our economy...next recession they hold an accountability for it? They are the biggest Corporation and greed and envy are their game.

Fact is with inflation they are hard rock and hard place. Going to be amazing watching the socialist demand we spend more.
 
#292
#292
volfanhill said:
No. We are where we are bc of insane spending. You openly claimed a 2-4% reduction was more than enough. Go read what you posted. It is not. And it's stupid to say otherwise. It's also disingenuous to try to sell that " 2-4%" is what's enough to the American people in an effort to appease them.
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I have a hard time communicating with some of you guys. (I changed what I was originally going to say)
If you cut a budget 2% per year, it is a 15% cut over 6 years.
Would the numbers you posted earlier look better today if they would have started cutting 2% per year 6 years ago?
Take your time......grab a calculator........you'll be shocked.
 
#293
#293
luthervol said:
I have a hard time communicating with some of you guys. (I changed what I was originally going to say)
If you cut a budget 2% per year, it is a 15% cut over 6 years.
Would the numbers you posted earlier look better today if they would have started cutting 2% per year 6 years ago?
Take your time......grab a calculator........you'll be shocked.
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A 15% cut dragged out over 6 years would still mean a deficit larger six years from now than today. So you still aren't actually addressing the problem. I commend you for actually realize a problem exists. But your solution is still driving off the cliff.
 
#294
#294
luthervol said:
I have a hard time communicating with some of you guys. (I changed what I was originally going to say)
If you cut a budget 2% per year, it is a 15% cut over 6 years.
Would the numbers you posted earlier look better today if they would have started cutting 2% per year 6 years ago?
Take your time......grab a calculator........you'll be shocked.
Click to expand...

You are disingenuous. I already posted that pre COVID Trump was 5% less than Biden Post COVID
You dont GAS.

99% of VNPF could cut 10% easily. Wasteful gov and like I said you fail PolySCi 101
The countless redundant agencies just for a baseline.
 
#296
#296
Presidents only spend the money that all of ya'lls (our) congress critters allow them to. The left vs right, my president is better than yours is effing stupid. Presidents are basically figureheads in the spending debate.
 
#297
#297
volfanhill said:
A 15% cut dragged out over 6 years would still mean a deficit larger six years from now than today. So you still aren't actually addressing the problem. I commend you for actually realize a problem exists. But your solution is still driving off the cliff.
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It's not. It's a common sense way to address the problem.
And who doesn't realize there is a problem? I think that is universally acknowledged.
And finally, don't ignore the fact that I said there would be an accompanying reworking of the tax code.
 
#298
#298
Orangeburst said:
You are disingenuous. I already posted that pre COVID Trump was 5% less than Biden Post COVID
You dont GAS.

99% of VNPF could cut 10% easily. Wasteful gov and like I said you fail PolySCi 101
The countless redundant agencies just for a baseline.
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You don't know how to interpret your own numbers that you posted.
Obama's final column (percent difference) went down 6 of 8 years and his final number was lower than any of Trump's.
Trump's number went up every single year he was in office.
Biden's number has gone down every year so far.

Go back and look again; with at least a half-way open mind.
 
#299
#299
newokie03 said:
Presidents only spend the money that all of ya'lls (our) congress critters allow them to. The left vs right, my president is better than yours is effing stupid. Presidents are basically figureheads in the spending debate.
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Amen. The whole Trump was better than Biden with regards to spending is nuts.
 
#300
#300
luthervol said:
You don't know how to interpret your own numbers that you posted.
Obama's final column (percent difference) went down 6 of 8 years and his final number was lower than any of Trump's.
Trump's number went up every single year he was in office.
Biden's number has gone down every year so far.

Go back and look again; with at least a half-way open mind.
Click to expand...

Explain then.
 
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