Some numbers...

#26
#26
VolGee4 said:
Yep the high post is always your friend in a standard 2-3. The baseline is helpful too if you have someone that penetrate. Why can't we use Hall at the high post? Or now use Reese? They both can hit that shot when open and then either find Stokes low or kick to the wing. Just don't understand.
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You don't want to put hall with the ball at the ft line as he decides to shoot, drive or pass. That's too much.
 
#27
#27
bleedingTNorange said:
Interesting thing is Wisconsin shot 42% from the field last year, same percentage as UT this year. They have been around 43-44% every other year in the span I broke down.
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Wisconsin shoots a bunch of 3's. That affects their overall FG%. Also UT's shooting this year has been hot and cold. For every horrible game, they have had a good night to somewhat off-set it. UT's 3 losses were all because of horrible shooting. UT missed 10 consecutive 3 pt shots tonight in the first half. That's baddddd shooting.
 
#28
#28
bleedingTNorange said:
Not trying to argue this honestly, just looking a numbers...but it seems your suggesting Wisconsin by design goes late into shot clock, so they take fewer shots, and more high percentage shots. Meanwhile, our low scoring is from jacking up bad shots or missing shots.

While according to the numbers...Wisconsin actually attempts more shots a game than we do. Our fg% are almost identical going off of theirs last year.

Just thought that was interesting.
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I have not looked at stats, just watched them play, but I would imagine we turn the ball over a lot more than they do and they probably force as many or more turnovers than we do also.
 
#29
#29
Spartacavolus said:
You don't want to put hall with the ball at the ft line as he decides to shoot, drive or pass. That's too much.
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Yea maybe so. May not be smart enough to make a good decision. But you need a relatively tall player who can hit the FT jumper and make good decisions. Playing Reese there is good but it actually takes him off the wing where he can make the 3. Maymon wouldn't be bad, but Maymon can't always make the short jumper. Maybe our roster doesn't have a great player there but the concept is what breaks the zone.
 
#30
#30
bleedingTNorange said:
Oh ok, my apologies.
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Rereading my original post, I can understand the confusion. My point being our numbers, like opponent FG%, could be just as good if we were scoring 75 ppg and giving up 65 ppg due to an increase in possessions because of a faster tempo (i.e. opponents shooting 15-40 vs 24-64). We take the air out of the ball offensively and run the clock under 10 on most possessions which limit opponent's opportunities. An increase in tempo would offer an increase in shot opportunites on both ends, and we could still be just as effective defensively.

Hope that clears it up.
 
#31
#31
zansdad said:
Wisconsin shoots a bunch of 3's. That affects their overall FG%. Also UT's shooting this year has been hot and cold. For every horrible game, they have had a good night to somewhat off-set it. UT's 3 losses were all because of horrible shooting. UT missed 10 consecutive 3 pt shots tonight in the first half. That's baddddd shooting.
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I'm sure they also had hot and cold games, thus their 40 point games and even 30 point game.

I'm not suggesting the teams are identical, but just showing some that we can win playing this defensive style of basketball we are playing.
 
#32
#32
VolGee4 said:
Yea maybe so. May not be smart enough to make a good decision. But you need a relatively tall player who can hit the FT jumper and make good decisions. Playing Reese there is good but it actually takes him off the wing where he can make the 3. Maymon wouldn't be bad, but Maymon can't always make the short jumper. Maybe our roster doesn't have a great player there but the concept is what breaks the zone.
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Richardson is the man for the job. He can hit the short jumper, can drive, doesn't make horrible decisions and at 6'6-6'7" he is tall enough to not be overwhelmed by post players.
 
#33
#33
omghulkhands said:
I have not looked at stats, just watched them play, but I would imagine we turn the ball over a lot more than they do and they probably force as many or more turnovers than we do also.
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We also might take more free throws than Wisconsin, at least so far. The Western Carolina game would really skew the sample.
 
#35
#35
bleedingTNorange said:
I'm sure they also had hot and cold games, thus their 40 point games and even 30 point game.

I'm not suggesting the teams are identical, but just showing some that we can win playing this defensive style of basketball we are playing.
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Oh, I think we can win this way too. It's just hard to watch sometimes.
 
#36
#36
zansdad said:
Richardson is the man for the job. He can hit the short jumper, can drive, doesn't make horrible decisions and at 6'6-6'7" he is tall enough to not be overwhelmed by post players.
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Yep probably best one. Put him at high post, Stokes down low and let McRae and or Reese sit on wings. Nonetheless the zone can be broken with fundamental and smart play. I went to a Memphis game last week and they had the exact same problem- couldn't break the 2-3. Problem is CCM won't play a zone.
 
#37
#37
VolGee4 said:
Yep probably best one. Put him at high post, Stokes down low and let McRae and or Reese sit on wings. Nonetheless the zone can be broken with fundamental and smart play. I went to a Memphis game last week and they had the exact same problem- couldn't break the 2-3. Problem is CCM won't play a zone.
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Zone offense and defenses intrigue me. Up until the late 80's (pre-3 point shot) teams broke the zone with crisp passing and cutting. Then came the 3-point line and it seems that 3 point offenses have devolved to simply "shooting them" out of it. No offense, just make 3's or don't make 3's.

As for defense, for the reasons I just mentioned, I think a team could win a lot of games by 3/4 court pressure to simply burn clock in the back court and then just play a mix of zones. Sure, some teams are going to light you up but there are just so many teams that just struggle vs zone defenses.
 
#40
#40
TennesseeFan07 said:
Tennessee is averaging more possessions per game than Florida and Vanderbilt are getting.
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I see that on Kenpom. Is that where you got that? Vandy doesn't shock me but Florida does. They've only had 2 games with 66 or more possessions.
 
#41
#41
bleedingTNorange said:
Tennessee numbers of 2012-2013:
64ppg/56ppg allowed



These numbers are all from the same coach at the same school over the past 5 season...they include offensive PPG, defensive PPG, their season record, and where their season ended.

2011-2012:
64ppg/53ppg allowed 26-10 Sweet 16

2010-2011:
68ppg/59ppg allowed 25-9 Sweet 16

2009-2010:
67ppg/57ppg allowed 24-9 2nd round NCAA

2008-2009:
64ppg/59ppg allowed 20-13 2nd round NCAA

2007-2008:
67ppg/54ppg allowed 31-5 Sweet 16


This is Bo Ryan from Wisconsin. Has his team in the tourney every year for the past 11 years, and all 11 years look very similar to these numbers. Wisconsin is top 10 in attendance just about every year, so don't tell me nobody enjoys watching this style.

Also, in everyone of these years his teams have had MULTIPLE games in which they've scored less than 55 points. Had a couple games a year in which they scored in the 40s, and even had a couple games in this span in the 30s.

Just thought I'd share, this system can/does win.
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Compared to Wisconsin, kill me now
 
#42
#42
Its sad when your mens basketball team seems to give up fewer points than our football team.
 
#44
#44
zansdad said:
I see that on Kenpom. Is that where you got that? Vandy doesn't shock me but Florida does. They've only had 2 games with 66 or more possessions.
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Hmmm that's interesting. They must not turn the ball over much, and must shoot very well cause they're averaging 70+ a game.
 
#47
#47
bleedingTNorange said:
Tennessee numbers of 2012-2013:
64ppg/56ppg allowed



These numbers are all from the same coach at the same school over the past 5 season...they include offensive PPG, defensive PPG, their season record, and where their season ended.

2011-2012:
64ppg/53ppg allowed 26-10 Sweet 16

2010-2011:
68ppg/59ppg allowed 25-9 Sweet 16

2009-2010:
67ppg/57ppg allowed 24-9 2nd round NCAA

2008-2009:
64ppg/59ppg allowed 20-13 2nd round NCAA

2007-2008:
67ppg/54ppg allowed 31-5 Sweet 16


This is Bo Ryan from Wisconsin. Has his team in the tourney every year for the past 11 years, and all 11 years look very similar to these numbers. Wisconsin is top 10 in attendance just about every year, so don't tell me nobody enjoys watching this style.

Also, in everyone of these years his teams have had MULTIPLE games in which they've scored less than 55 points. Had a couple games a year in which they scored in the 40s, and even had a couple games in this span in the 30s.



Just thought I'd share, this system can/does win.
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It's not the system - it's the personnel in the system. Poor point guard distribution - poor assist to turnover ratio - poor outside shooting - poor free throw shooting - poor rebounding - poor offensive execution - great defense - great hustle.

Mayman would make a huge difference - if we could quit clanging all the 3 pointers it would make a difference - most last night were not even close - clanging off the outside back corner of the rim - clanging off the backboard - just horrible, horrible outside shooting.
 
#48
#48
Fullfillmer said:
It's not the system - it's the personnel in the system. Poor point guard distribution - poor assist to turnover ratio - poor outside shooting - poor free throw shooting - poor rebounding - poor offensive execution - great defense - great hustle.

Mayman would make a huge difference - if we could quit clanging all the 3 pointers it would make a difference - most last night were not even close - clanging off the outside back corner of the rim - clanging off the backboard - just horrible, horrible outside shooting.
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I've been harping on it, Martin when asked about our lack of O many times says guys need to make shots. That sounds too simple, and irritates some, but use last night as a good example....

We had 51 points last night.

We went 3/20 from deep, CCM teams ideally shoot 40% from 3 as a team, that'd be 8/20 last night. 5 more made threes, equals 15 more points. We also Made about 2-3 less ft than what CCM wants to see as far as a percentage. Then we had about 4 more TOs than Martin wants, so you have to figure that's atleast 2 points

Add all that up and we score 70-72 points last night, and who's b******g then?
 
#49
#49
Still no reason that you can't get stokes open looks and clearouts, or at least set it up where there is an easy kickout. Have to get that done. Basketball is always about missed or made shots.
 
#50
#50
bleedingTNorange said:
I've been harping on it, Martin when asked about our lack of O many times says guys need to make shots. That sounds too simple, and irritates some, but use last night as a good example....

We had 51 points last night.

We went 3/20 from deep, CCM teams ideally shoot 40% from 3 as a team, that'd be 8/20 last night. 5 more made threes, equals 15 more points. We also Made about 2-3 less ft than what CCM wants to see as far as a percentage. Then we had about 4 more TOs than Martin wants, so you have to figure that's atleast 2 points

Add all that up and we score 70-72 points last night, and who's b******g then?
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If it actually happened, no one. I don't have any problem with people being frustrated that the team can't shoot, even if CCM can't fix it.
 
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