Some of you people just don't get it

[sjt18]

There are a lot of misinformed people on this site, that's for sure. They're either completely out of touch with what it takes to build a championship football team or they're simply part of the instant gratification crowd or both.

I am neither... expecting 7 wins out of a roster with the legitimate potential for 7 wins if properly coached... is NOT expecting instant gratification.

UT finally has a championship caliber coach who will do what it takes to build the VOLS back and yet we have a ton of yahoos on here claiming we're going to go 8-3 or 9-2! Idiots.

Really? A ton? Should be easy to list some, right?

Show me something in the coaching we've seen of THIS roster that proves this staff to be "championship caliber". Your faith isn't what I am looking for. And I am not looking for what was done against weak competition.

Jones won or shared two championships at Cincy, right? How many ranked teams did they beat to accomplish that? Zero. How many will he have to beat to win the SEC at UT?

In fact, in 3 years at Cincy Jones only beat 6 FBS teams that finished with a winning record. IIRC, he did not beat a single 10 win team.

I'm not saying he isn't the right guy. I AM saying that pointing to success at Cincy as proof of that... doesn't hold water.

We're right on course- right where most of the analysts had predicted we would be -and we got a major win against SC and we beat Georgia up and down the field.

So you acknowledge that this coaching job has been "average", right? Not "championship caliber".

Add a couple of strong recruiting seasons and we'll be back, but it doesn't help to have the volnation.com clan going against the home team on a daily basis.

I think low expectations expressed by fans does greater harm than fact based, non-condemning criticisms.

We have a great school and a great team to cheer for - if you don't have the patience to watch Butch build the VOLS back brick by brick, then move along.

Go VOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is it with you and guys like you? "Don't agree with my opinion? Move along... you aren't a real fan".

I AM a "real fan" and am DISGUSTED with the coaching I have seen on the D side of the ball over the last 3 weeks. If you as a "fan" can stomach that and act like there's nothing to be concerned about... maybe it is YOU who should "move along".

 

[CountVolcula]

 

[SamRebel35]

We lack talent on defense. Nobody here has argued against that point from what I can tell. However, there are plenty of reasons to believe the problem goes beyond a lack of talent. 444 rushing yards! That doesn't happen to well coached teams of any talent level. I don't think Maryville College would even get 444 yards rung up on them against Auburn. Our players don't line up right, don't diagnose plays right, don't take the correct first step at the snap, don't pursue with attention to angles, and don't wrap up and tackle. So, to me, this is a coaching problem first and foremost with a talent problem that makes it look much worse. I don't think we should necessarily fire anybody at this point, but I want to know that CBJ realizes the problem and takes steps to fix it (above and beyond recruiting). For instance, I would feel so much better about the future of our defense if Jones took a more interactive role in coaching that side of the ball.

 

[508mikey]

Yeah, I keep trying to tell my wife that Saturday is a High Holy Sacred Day in TN that must be honored - but sadly, she cant find that in the Bible anywhere so the family has to go on vacation.

Tell her to keep lookin - its in there - only 12 precious Saturdays a year.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Look up UGA's '08 depth chart and look at the LBs on that depth chart. That team wasn't blessed with high-caliber LBs.


well off the top of my head I can think of three who played in the league... Ellerbee with the Ravens , Curran with the Titans and Dent with the Falcons .

Curran was a great one no doubt, but I beleive Ellerbe missed close to half the '08 season with a knee inury and actually went undrafted if memory serves me well and signed as a free agent. Dent had a decent season in
'09 and made 2nd team All-SEC in '10, but he didn't do a whole lot in '08.

 

[TheDirector]

I go away for the weekend, knowing that Auburn is going to dominate on Saturday (but secretly hoping for an upset). I come back and its as if the friggen sky is falling because we lost to yet another top 10 team. We are doing the right things, you silly fans however act like turning a totally crappy program into a legendary one can be done near instantaneously and on willpower alone. First you start drinking koolaid and thinking we can "dominate" (not just beat) top 10 teams, then run around like headless chickens and threaten to commit ritual fan suicide because we got owned as expected. I see some of you idiots even saying KY is going to own us for sure.

NEWSFLASH to some of you people - UT IS NOT A TOP 10 TEAM THIS YEAR no matter who is coaching it. Considering this schedule and the lack of depth we have at almost any position, its amazing we have done what we have done so far.

Now I know we all hoped Coach Jones would make some major improvements this year in spite of the garbage heap he was given and the nations most brutal schedule. IMHO he has done so. Out of 10 games so far, 5 have been Top 10 teams and 2 more have been Top 20. Astonishingly, we actually pulled off an upset of a #11 team and allllllmost did so for a #6. But we arent going to upset many or we would actually BE a top 10 team.

I am happy with seeing our offense continue to grow and see that we have some really decent possibilities next year at QB and receivers who can get open even if they havent yet learned to catch the ball. Defense needs some help but then its harder to gauge when they are on the field the whole game against top teams with no replacements. Recruiting is phenomenal, considering our past couple of years.

Now Vandy is not going to be candy this year and only has KY between us and game day but with us getting some rest after playing the friggen giant schedule I think we should be able to be up 3-7 against them and beat KY by 14. That is a real test for us but as decent as Vandy is this year, I think its going to seem like running downhill after what we have been through the last 3 weeks.

At the beginning of the year, any clear eyed analyst would be very happy with the prospect of 6-6 and one big upset. Of course, we thought Auburn would be a walkover this year and nope, even they kickass. So considering - if we go 6-6 this year and head to a bowl game, give all the true freshmen and people time to actually learn new systems, recruit like we are doing right now - in 2-3 years this team WILL be a top 10 team again and a very solid program. Jones is not Dooley part Deux (he has been a winner on his own and not just the son of one). Until then, grow the heck up and temper your expectations with some reality.

Well said OP and it could be worse. Ask Saban about his first year at Bama.

Saban references 9/11, Pearl Harbor as examples - College Football - ESPN

 

[BeardedVol]

How many teams with mobile/semi-mobile quarterbacks do you face before you, as the defensive coordinator, at least attempt to put together a defensive scheme for such a scenario?

I'm looking at our schedule and wondering if we haven't hit that magic number for Jancek or not?

 

[checkerboards09]

MAC talent? You are so off-base. I realize Rivals isn't very well respected on this site, but the players UT has recruited over the past 3 years were also heavily recruited by other SEC schools.

You can't explain that to any of the "we're slow an have no talent" people. Every other major program that offered our players was going after players who were overrated.

 

[soda23]

Curran was a great one no doubt, but I beleive Ellerbe missed close to half the '08 season with a knee inury and actually went undrafted if memory serves me well and signed as a free agent. Dent had a decent season in
'09 and made 2nd team All-SEC in '10, but he didn't do a whole lot in '08.

you said they didn't have any high caliber linebackers , and I give you three guys who made the league ...just how high caliber do you need ?

 

[daj2576]

To be honest... I argued for giving him the benefit of the doubt until it was 100% obvious he was done. I was wrong. I try to avoid condemning language while criticizing these guys. I try not to make final judgments.

But I am not going to ignore negatives or positives any more. I THINK Jones is a better HC than Dooley. However I also think Dooley may have done a better job selecting his first staff than Jones has done on D.



If UT loses to Vandy then Jones will have done something in his first year that Dooley did not do. He will lost to at least one and IMO two teams with less talent. MU has less overall talent... and it was a blowout. Dooley didn't lose to a less talented team until UK in '11... he then made a habit out of it.

I think you're wrong on talent and Dooley's performance in 2010 (see below). Just as I think you are making too much out of Mizzou's over-performance this year.

 

[Wylo]

If UT loses to Vandy then Jones will have done something in his first year that Dooley did not do. He will lost to at least one and IMO two teams with less talent. MU has less overall talent... and it was a blowout. Dooley didn't lose to a less talented team until UK in '11... he then made a habit out of it.

Mizzou has more talent than UT. Just stop. You keep saying this, but it isn't true.

If we could switch teams with Mizzou, must would do that in a heartbeat. They are better. And it isn't even close.

 

[stllvf]

Missouri has an outstanding record, don't know how you arrived at less-talented

 

[daj2576]

Mizzou has more talent than UT. Just stop. You keep saying this, but it isn't true.

If we could switch teams with Mizzou, must would do that in a heartbeat. They are better. And it isn't even close.

He is right, that we have more talent insofar as recruiting rankings go. We have recruited far better talent, and retained it (there is no legitimate argument that says that we have lost more talent than Mizzou-[see below]).

But where you are wrong is that there are a minority of teams who can use lessor talent to beat better teams. Far too often people claim that is because the winning team is more talented, it isn't. Talent doesn't always account for a win (See: Michigan v. App. St; Bama v. La-Monroe; any of James Franklins wins in the SEC besides Kentucky; etc)

Here are some other examples of teams who use lessor talent to beat more talented teams: Arkansas (under Petrino) could consistently get 3-4 more games a year out of his talent, Kansas State (Bill Snyder), Fresno State has won 4 games against more talented teams this year, UCF under O'Leary is plus four games, Rick Stockstill at MTSU is plus 3 games, Larry Coker at UTSA is plus 3 games, Paul Johnson at GaTech is plus 3 games, Todd Graham at ASU is plus 3 games. In fact Stanford beat Oregon with less recruited talent. But those are the exception, the minority. Click here and read all about it: Week #11 Anti Coach Effect of the Year rankings

Here is the anti-coaching effect page. It is a few weeks old, but you get the point: Week #9 Anti Coach Effect of the Year Rankings in College Football

Both of those are the exception. The rule is that better recruited talent (as viewed through a lens of nothing more than rivals rankings, or similar evals) wins more often than not. How much is "more often than not"? About 70% for at-large games, about 80% for SEC games, and about 90% for BCS championship games.

 

[Spartacavolus]

anyone can skew a stat anyway they prefer. One team gets run around and through 3 straight games and has a losing record. The other team has one somewhat fluky loss and is top 10 in the country under a coach that has been there for a decade. We aren't lining up against them and running a sprint. We play them in football and they are a faster, more talented football team and it's ridiculous that it's even debated.

 

[KBVol]

Dont try talking sense to this board!..

Don't worry, he took your advice....He didn't.

 

[daj2576]

.

 

[sjt18]

Mizzou has more talent than UT. Just stop. You keep saying this, but it isn't true.

I keep saying it because it IS true. They are very well coached and have grown up in MU's system. But in terms of raw, athletic "talent"... UT is more talented and it isn't all that close.

If we could switch teams with Mizzou, must would do that in a heartbeat. They are better. And it isn't even close.

If you switched talent... UT wouldn't have beaten USA and maybe not WKU.

 

[sjt18]

We play them in football and they are a faster, more talented football team and it's ridiculous that it's even debated.

No. They aren't. And YES... it is ridiculous that it has to be debated.

 

[beneVOLence]

How many teams with mobile/semi-mobile quarterbacks do you face before you, as the defensive coordinator, at least attempt to put together a defensive scheme for such a scenario?

I'm looking at our schedule and wondering if we haven't hit that magic number for Jancek or not?

Exactly. The best coaching staff in America would. Oh wait, that is supposed to be ours. LOL.
Since they practice and scrimage against an offense that is basically the same as we have been playing, you would think they could come up with something to slow it down if not stop it and make them beat you through the air. The main difference is that the QB ACTUALLY RUNS THE BALL. If I were CJF on passing plays I would tell my QB when he drops back to pass, if the 1st option is not open to just tuck it run. We can't stop a running QB.

 

[butchna]

Exactly. The best coaching staff in America would. Oh wait, that is supposed to be ours. LOL.
Since they practice and scrimage against an offense that is basically the same as we have been playing, you would think they could come up with something to slow it down if not stop it and make them beat you through the air. The main difference is that the QB ACTUALLY RUNS THE BALL. If I were CJF on passing plays I would tell my QB when he drops back to pass, if the 1st option is not open to just tuck it run. We can't stop a running QB.

If the QB CAN run...I hope Patton takes this route...I really do!
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[VolSinceIwasborn]

I hope you are right. I wish I could be as convinced. I don' think the sky is falling I just think we can't know for sure.

 

[Gandalf]

He is right, that we have more talent insofar as recruiting rankings go. We have recruited far better talent, and retained it (there is no legitimate argument that says that we have lost more talent than Mizzou-[see below]).

But where you are wrong is that there are a minority of teams who can use lessor talent to beat better teams. Far too often people claim that is because the winning team is more talented, it isn't. Talent doesn't always account for a win (See: Michigan v. App. St; Bama v. La-Monroe; any of James Franklins wins in the SEC besides Kentucky; etc)

Here are some other examples of teams who use lessor talent to beat more talented teams: Arkansas (under Petrino) could consistently get 3-4 more games a year out of his talent, Kansas State (Bill Snyder), Fresno State has won 4 games against more talented teams this year, UCF under O'Leary is plus four games, Rick Stockstill at MTSU is plus 3 games, Larry Coker at UTSA is plus 3 games, Paul Johnson at GaTech is plus 3 games, Todd Graham at ASU is plus 3 games. In fact Stanford beat Oregon with less recruited talent. But those are the exception, the minority. Click here and read all about it: Week #11 Anti Coach Effect of the Year rankings

Here is the anti-coaching effect page. It is a few weeks old, but you get the point: Week #9 Anti Coach Effect of the Year Rankings in College Football

Both of those are the exception. The rule is that better recruited talent (as viewed through a lens of nothing more than rivals rankings, or similar evals) wins more often than not. How much is "more often than not"? About 70% for at-large games, about 80% for SEC games, and about 90% for BCS championship games.

Which is why recruiting GOOD players - not just those who look good on paper, but those who will actually be good for the system they are running - is such a critical job of a HC - and on that count Butch is doing pretty darn good so far.

 

[knoxvols11]

Hey, I just realized I'm LIKE COACH BUTCH JONES, I GET IT!

Ok

 

[Wylo]

I keep saying it because it IS true. They are very well coached and have grown up in MU's system. But in terms of raw, athletic "talent"... UT is more talented and it isn't all that close.



If you switched talent... UT wouldn't have beaten USA and maybe not WKU.

This is not even close to being true. It's actually laughable.

 

[tmodaniel]

Please just go away!

Get off the computer your mom is calling you down stairs, you didn't take out the trash and your interweb privileges have been suspended