Space Exploration

Are NASA's future missions and budget justified?

  • It's worth the time and expenditures

    Votes: 222 65.9%

  • Complete waste of money

    Votes: 41 12.2%

  • We need to explore, but not at the current cost

    Votes: 74 22.0%
  • Total voters
    337
#3,104
#3,104
Hopefully there is a benign explanation for SpaceX’s FAA issue but some that are very familiar with the players and processes are speculating otherwise:
 
#3,105
#3,105
Not getting into this recent SpaceX spat, I need to do some more reading. But NASA has stated they will go with a second green run on Artemis 1 core stage hardware at the end of Feb. Rumors on Reddit is that this will push launch of Artemis 1 to Q1 2022.
 
#3,106
#3,106
zeppelin128 said:
Not getting into this recent SpaceX spat, I need to do some more reading. But NASA has stated they will go with a second green run on Artemis 1 core stage hardware at the end of Feb. Rumors on Reddit is that this will push launch of Artemis 1 to Q1 2022.
Click to expand...

You're surprised at yet another delay on the SLS?

Now the question is how much more over budget are they going to go before they actually get a launch performed.
 
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#3,108
#3,108
twoffo said:
Hopefully there is a benign explanation for SpaceX’s FAA issue but some that are very familiar with the players and processes are speculating otherwise:
Click to expand...


Reading the original statement from the FAA, it looks like someone got their dander up and wants to show they're "in charge" with the Admin changing. Trump was trying to loosen the regulations and get rid of a lot of red tape when it came to the commercial side of things, but obviously, this might be a threat to someone's job. This is supposition on my part, but not exactly a conspiracy theory either with the way the government tends to act.

Plus, the Nasawatch website doesn't paint a pretty picture on the direction of NASA especially with the "climate change emergency" being the Admin's watchwords of the week. My guess is NASA will yet again shift priorities (as it does every time an Admin changes) and turn back into yet another agency not focusing on its originally stated mission and duplicating effort from other agencies.
 
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#3,109
#3,109
Grand Vol said:
Reading the original statement from the FAA, it looks like someone got their dander up and wants to show they're "in charge" with the Admin changing. Trump was trying to loosen the regulations and get rid of a lot of red tape when it came to the commercial side of things, but obviously, this might be a threat to someone's job. This is supposition on my part, but not exactly a conspiracy theory either with the way the government tends to act.

Plus, the Nasawatch website doesn't paint a pretty picture on the direction of NASA especially with the "climate change emergency" being the Admin's watchwords of the week. My guess is NASA will yet again shift priorities (as it does every time an Admin changes) and turn back into yet another agency not focusing on its originally stated mission and duplicating effort from other agencies.
Click to expand...
You are shooting ******** and trashing Biden because he ain't Trump. Space thread used to be a sane place, guess not anymore. Did the FAA ever shut down a SpaceX flight before Biden? Yeah, they did. So that means Trump and his ilk did their best to destroy everything. I don't know, this is how it works right?
 
#3,110
#3,110
zeppelin128 said:
No, I'm not surprised. Just passing the info along.
Click to expand...

That thing has been a disaster since day one practically and it's honestly no fault of any particular Admin: Obama, Trump or now Biden. If anyone is to blame for the troubles SLS faces, look no further than Congress that hamstrung them into having to modify existing Shuttle hardware instead of actually coming up with a clean sheet design. They are trying to modify 1970s tech into a 21st century spaceflight world and it shows. Not saying the SLS isn't going to be good (the RS-25 engines are still some of the best in the world), but politicians mandating the way it was built was not a recipe for success.

Between "want the pet project in my Congressional district" and normal government egos making sure they remind those lowly serfs they are still relevant (as I suspect the latest scrap with SpaceX stems from) and you have yet more recipes for disaster. If we had the same level of bureaucracy and red tape in 1927 as we have now, Charles Lindbergh would have died waiting on the runway in New York.
 
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#3,111
#3,111
Grand Vol said:
That thing has been a disaster since day one practically and it's honestly no fault of any particular Admin: Obama, Trump or now Biden. If anyone is to blame for the troubles SLS faces, look no further than Congress that hamstrung them into having to modify existing Shuttle hardware instead of actually coming up with a clean sheet design. They are trying to modify 1970s tech into a 21st century spaceflight world and it shows. Not saying the SLS isn't going to be good (the RS-25 engines are still some of the best in the world), but politicians mandating the way it was built was not a recipe for success.

Between "want the pet project in my Congressional district" and normal government egos making sure they remind those lowly serfs they are still relevant (as I suspect the latest scrap with SpaceX stems from) and you have yet more recipes for disaster. If we had the same level of bureaucracy and red tape in 1927 as we have now, Charles Lindbergh would have died waiting on the runway in New York.
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Well I can't disagree with any of this. Honestly it is a shame we are tossing arguably the best engines ever created in the ocean. Poor RS-25 :(
 
#3,112
#3,112
zeppelin128 said:
You are shooting ******** and trashing Biden because he ain't Trump. Space thread used to be a sane place, guess not anymore. Did the FAA ever shut down a SpaceX flight before Biden? Yeah, they did. So that means Trump and his ilk did their best to destroy everything. I don't know, this is how it works right?
Click to expand...

Okay, dude, I haven't had enough coffee yet, so forgive me if I come off rude...

No, I'm not apologizing. I'm going to be rude because this isn't about Biden, you partisan ****. It's about the slipping of control from government bureaucrats that feel like their self importance needed to be established once again. It's no great secret Musk stepped on a lot of toes at NASA and with your traditional "Big Boys" that provide launch services for massively elevated prices. He did it cheaper, faster and how dare he actually be innovative and try to save us a buck or two on the services he provided.

The non-partisan thing is, the Commercial Crew and Commercial Resupply missions were started under Obama and really got rolling under Trump when he dialed back the regulations and amount of red tape involved. Do you realize there are nearly dozen government agencies that control the commercial side of spaceflight and streamlined the process to make it harder for such things to flourish? Enter Trump with his regulatory slashing and making things easier by getting government out of the way.

That probably pissed a lot of government agencies off because they didn't have as much power as they once held and that's a significant blow to the ego. Now that the Admin has changed, they probably want to reassert the control they once had and this is just the first steps. Read between the lines of what Musk said on Twitter. They aren't doing anything different with this test than they did in the last one and suddenly, the FAA realizes something was missed and not one, but two planned attempts were scrubbed?

Yeah, I can read between the lines and realize someone in one of the various government agencies knows the Admin has changed and they get to be "in charge" yet again. Just expect more of it in the future and when it happens I won't say "I told you so."
 
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#3,113
#3,113
Grand Vol said:
Okay, shithead, I haven't had enough coffee yet, so forgive me if I come off rude...

No, I'm not apologizing. I'm going to be rude because this isn't about Biden, you partisan ****. It's about the slipping of control from government bureaucrats that feel like their self importance needed to be established once again. It's no great secret Musk stepped on a lot of toes at NASA and with your traditional "Big Boys" that provide launch services for massively elevated prices. He did it cheaper, faster and how dare he actually be innovative and try to save us a buck or two on the services he provided.

The non-partisan thing is, the Commercial Crew and Commercial Resupply missions were started under Obama and really got rolling under Trump when he dialed back the regulations and amount of red tape involved. Do you realize there are nearly dozen government agencies that control the commercial side of spaceflight and streamlined the process to make it harder for such things to flourish? Enter Trump with his regulatory slashing and making things easier by getting government out of the way.

That probably pissed a lot of government agencies off because they didn't have as much power as they once held and that's a significant blow to the ego. Now that the Admin has changed, they probably want to reassert the control they once had and this is just the first steps. Read between the lines of what Musk said on Twitter. They aren't doing anything different with this test than they did in the last one and suddenly, the FAA realizes something was missed and not one, but two planned attempts were scrubbed?

Yeah, I can read between the lines and realize someone in one of the various government agencies knows the Admin has changed and they get to be "in charge" yet again. Just expect more of it in the future and when it happens I won't say "I told you so."
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Yeah I pretty much ignored you when you insulted me out of the gate.
 
#3,116
#3,116
zeppelin128 said:
Nope, we probably agreed on this kind of stuff. But I'm not going to be insulted by you.
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Well, I'm not sorry you have such thin skin that you can't take me coming back at you when you came off sideways at me thinking it was a dig against Biden.

Had you actually read what I posted, which I know you did anyway despite your protests, you'd know this already.
 
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#3,117
#3,117
Grand Vol said:
Well, I'm not sorry you have such thin skin that you can't take me coming back at you when you came off sideways at me thinking it was a dig against Biden.

Had you actually read what I posted, which I know you did anyway despite your protests, you'd know this already.
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Nope, not thin skin at all. Just don't care honestly.
 
#3,118
#3,118
zeppelin128 said:
You are shooting ******** and trashing Biden because he ain't Trump. Space thread used to be a sane place, guess not anymore. Did the FAA ever shut down a SpaceX flight before Biden? Yeah, they did. So that means Trump and his ilk did their best to destroy everything. I don't know, this is how it works right?
Click to expand...

So you think it's just coincidence that a week and half into a new administration that SpaceX is now running into problem after problem with government agencies and red tape?

Its plaine to see that someone somewhere for some reason wants SpaceX to be slowed down and has pushed for help. Where it be the actual new administration, I'm not sure.

It could be Boeing with their embarrassments the last several years with Starliner as well as their aircraft side.
Starship would eventually hurt them if Elon ever got it approved for point to point transport on earth. 45 minutes to an hour for travel from the west coast to the east coast or Europe instead of 4 or 5 hours plus on a 777x.

It could be Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin a big liberal & Biden supporter. He founded Blue Origin two years before Musk did SpaceX and yet they still haven't got anything into orbit.

It could be disgruntled deep State NASA bearucrats who wasn't happy with the commercial space push. Ending private companies paying NASA to get to orbit.
 
#3,119
#3,119
CagleMtnVol said:
So you think it's just coincidence that a week and half into a new administration that SpaceX is now running into problem after problem with government agencies and red tape?

Its plaine to see that someone somewhere for some reason wants SpaceX to be slowed down and has pushed for help. Where it be the actual new administration, I'm not sure.

It could be Boeing with their embarrassments the last several years with Starliner as well as their aircraft side.
Starship would eventually hurt them if Elon ever got it approved for point to point transport on earth. 45 minutes to an hour for travel from the west coast to the east coast or Europe instead of 4 or 5 hours plus on a 777x.

It could be Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin a big liberal & Biden supporter. He founded Blue Origin two years before Musk did SpaceX and yet they still haven't got anything into orbit.

It could be disgruntled deep State NASA bearucrats who wasn't happy with the commercial space push. Ending private companies paying NASA to get to orbit.
Click to expand...
I really don't know why I bother. Carry on, all of you, Think what you want, do what you want. I'm done.
 
#3,121
#3,121
CagleMtnVol said:
It could be Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin a big liberal & Biden supporter. He founded Blue Origin two years before Musk did SpaceX and yet they still haven't got anything into orbit..
Click to expand...

Doubtful it's Bezos. Both he and Musk are competitive, but they aren't competitors. Blue Origin is focused more on the tourist side and maybe the heavy lift market as well as the lunar lander. SpaceX is involved in heavy lift, but there isn't a big market for it right now. And they were third choice on the lander system.

I don't see Bezos going after SpaceX like that because they really don't have a stake in the market SpaceX is in.
 
#3,122
#3,122
Grand Vol said:
Doubtful it's Bezos. Both he and Musk are competitive, but they aren't competitors. Blue Origin is focused more on the tourist side and maybe the heavy lift market as well as the lunar lander. SpaceX is involved in heavy lift, but there isn't a big market for it right now. And they were third choice on the lander system.

I don't see Bezos going after SpaceX like that because they really don't have a stake in the market SpaceX is in.
Click to expand...

Blue Origin is planning on going after the same stuff SpaceX is with their New Glenn rocket. It has been in development since 2012 it's larger than both Falcon and Falcon Heavy of SpaceX.

Blue Origin New Glenn Rocket
Height 98 m (322 ft)
Diameter 7 m (23 ft)
Stages 2
 
#3,123
#3,123
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