Space Exploration

Are NASA's future missions and budget justified?

  • It's worth the time and expenditures

    Votes: 223 66.0%

  • Complete waste of money

    Votes: 41 12.1%

  • We need to explore, but not at the current cost

    Votes: 74 21.9%
  • Total voters
    338
#851
#851
Grand Vol said:
If I was to guess, it's also going to be a trial flight.
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Agreed.

The thing that puzzles me is the article read like these two citizens are paying for the trip; which, is pretty expensive. If Space X had offered a free ride or merely certain expenses (training, etc.) going to the Moon makes a lot of sense.

However, if I had to split the cost of a whole flight, I would want some value for the money I'm spending. Presumably, this might be my only shot at space given my bankroll and health. I could pay a cheaper flight to the ISS. Get to experience all the awesomeness of space. Have a pretty nice hotel (for space) with cool experiments. Or, I could pay more money and go to the surface of the Moon which would be badass. Or, even still, I could cash out all my money and go to Mars as one of the first humans to do so.

Merely, going around the Moon at much more expense, no nice hotel, much more work, a bigger chance of something going wrong with not much help (compared to an ISS mission), etc. seems like a sh*tty deal.
 
#857
#857
Vol737 said:
That's because we know what happens when you land on Mars.

View attachment 128768
Click to expand...

Dude, I almost posted a TR pic earlier, but was completely too lazy to search one up. In your honor now:

74d65b58a6b615cc3dc127d86e736f64.jpg
 
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Reactions: 1 person
#859
#859
PKT_VOL said:
Agreed.

The thing that puzzles me is the article read like these two citizens are paying for the trip; which, is pretty expensive. If Space X had offered a free ride or merely certain expenses (training, etc.) going to the Moon makes a lot of sense.

However, if I had to split the cost of a whole flight, I would want some value for the money I'm spending. Presumably, this might be my only shot at space given my bankroll and health. I could pay a cheaper flight to the ISS. Get to experience all the awesomeness of space. Have a pretty nice hotel (for space) with cool experiments. Or, I could pay more money and go to the surface of the Moon which would be badass. Or, even still, I could cash out all my money and go to Mars as one of the first humans to do so.

Merely, going around the Moon at much more expense, no nice hotel, much more work, a bigger chance of something going wrong with not much help (compared to an ISS mission), etc. seems like a sh*tty deal.
Click to expand...

I think it's the fact it hasn't been done in over 40 years and by less than 30 people ever is the attraction. There would be a lot of proof of concepts done as well with a SpaceX lunar flight. Even with a free return trajectory, the Dragon will have proven itself as a deep space craft that could (emphasis on could) rival the Orion system as the next "go to" for our space program. And the nice thing? It's been privately funded and developed. But if it was to orbit? Even more proof the private sector can (and has) rivaled NASA as a potential exploratory entity.

If Musk wants to get to Mars eventually, things like a lunar flight or two will go a long way in proving the design and how well the craft will hold up. He'll have to take small steps prior to making a great leap into the Red Planet. His real ambition is to land the Red Dragon on Mars (unmanned at first) in the next three years. Again, a craft going into deep space will allow for a hoop of tests prior to sending it deeper into space.

Anyway, I'd bet there are more than a few folks willing to cough up the money to do such a thing. With your proposal of heading into an "orbital vacation" I still say SpaceX needs to partner with Bigelow Aerospace and build a private space station designed for such things. The first private space station flown to and from on a private spacecraft? There's money in that idea. Far more than Virgin Galactic's suborbital flights.
 
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#861
#861
Grand Vol said:
I think it's the fact it hasn't been done in over 40 years and by less than 30 people ever is the attraction. There would be a lot of proof of concepts done as well with a SpaceX lunar flight. Even with a free return trajectory, the Dragon will have proven itself as a deep space craft that could (emphasis on could) rival the Orion system as the next "go to" for our space program. And the nice thing? It's been privately funded and developed. But if it was to orbit? Even more proof the private sector can (and has) rivaled NASA as a potential exploratory entity.

If Musk wants to get to Mars eventually, things like a lunar flight or two will go a long way in proving the design and how well the craft will hold up. He'll have to take small steps prior to making a great leap into the Red Planet. His real ambition is to land the Red Dragon on Mars (unmanned at first) in the next three years. Again, a craft going into deep space will allow for a hoop of tests prior to sending it deeper into space.

Anyway, I'd bet there are more than a few folks willing to cough up the money to do such a thing. With your proposal of heading into an "orbital vacation" I still say SpaceX needs to partner with Bigelow Aerospace and build a private space station designed for such things. The first private space station flown to and from on a private spacecraft? There's money in that idea. Far more than Virgin Galactic's suborbital flights.
Click to expand...

The company doesn't expect this to be a one-time mission. SpaceX said that other people have expressed strong interest in making the trip. The names of the first two travelers have not been released. They are likely paying millions for the adventure.
For comparison, space tourists have previously paid the Russia government upwards of $20 million for a trip to the International Space Station. NASA has paid the Russians $80 million a seat to send astronauts to the space station. SpaceX has not revealed the price of the roughly week-long trip.
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and its a publicity stunt as well. Get people talking, as you said Musk wants to push things. Going to ISS already happens, next step next step next step.
 
#863
#863
LouderVol said:
and its a publicity stunt as well. Get people talking, as you said Musk wants to push things. Going to ISS already happens, next step next step next step.
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I wouldn't say "stunt" though as there is much to be learned from the endeavor.

But Musk is bold for certain.
 
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#866
#866
LouderVol said:
true. there is probably a better word I could have used.
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On the subject, I'd imagine Trump had Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos talking his ear off about the privatization of space when they had that tech industry meeting. And truth be told, SpaceX and Blue Origin are what NASA was about 50 years ago aside from the steep learning curve. Both companies have a strong desire to reach out into the cosmos (undoubtedly some of it is financially driven) and are stopping at nothing to get there. They are innovators and creators striving for results with a clear goal in mind, not government bureaucrats collecting a paycheck. Trump is all about the private sector and probably knows SpaceX and others can do a better job than his own agencies.

I personally think that's a lot of what NASA lost after the Apollo program. Provided the funding wasn't exactly there, but they have lost a lot of the innovation and exploration desire needed to get off this rock. People like Bezos, Musk, Bigelow, Branson and others are pushing the envelope far more than any government could.
 
#867
#867
Let's just say, it better return them safely.

Anything goes wrong and it would kill space exploration for generations.
 
#868
#868
Grand Vol said:
On the subject, I'd imagine Trump had Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos talking his ear off about the privatization of space when they had that tech industry meeting. And truth be told, SpaceX and Blue Origin are what NASA was about 50 years ago aside from the steep learning curve. Both companies have a strong desire to reach out into the cosmos (undoubtedly some of it is financially driven) and are stopping at nothing to get there. They are innovators and creators striving for results with a clear goal in mind, not government bureaucrats collecting a paycheck. Trump is all about the private sector and probably knows SpaceX and others can do a better job than his own agencies.

I personally think that's a lot of what NASA lost after the Apollo program. Provided the funding wasn't exactly there, but they have lost a lot of the innovation and exploration desire needed to get off this rock. People like Bezos, Musk, Bigelow, Branson and others are pushing the envelope far more than any government could.
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a lot of the problem with NASA is they lost a lot of brainpower/leaders to the private sector. and after Apollo they also never had a real clear goal that survived the president. NASA really needs to be operated outside of the norm in the government. 20 year plans, advisory role to the private sector etc
 
#869
#869
To further my comments and something I agree with Huff of (strange, I know) this is one area the private sector has surpassed the government with a huge leap. Used to be the government, NASA in particular, set the goals and sent the work to the private sector to accomplish. Now? Not so much. Sure, it still goes on, but the priorities change with each President and we have programs starting, getting cancelled, priorities shifting, Now the private sector is setting their sights and eagerly pushing the envelope. Instead of being hampered by Congressional budgets and shifting priorities, private companies are setting their own goals and pushing forward. And that certainly is a free market answer to the government problem of inaction.
 
#870
#870
lawgator1 said:
Let's just say, it better return them safely.

Anything goes wrong and it would kill space exploration for generations.
Click to expand...

Did people stop flying even though aircraft in the early 20th century had an abysmal safety record? or did they learn from the mistakes and create better machines?

Space flight isn't without risks. But I would think we have learned more than enough over the past 60 years safety wise to help mitigate a lot of the problems the early spacecraft faced.

You are semi-correct, however, that an accident would certainly temper private spaceflight for a time. But I seriously doubt it would kill it entirely. And I believe government travel would continue.
 
#871
#871
lawgator1 said:
Let's just say, it better return them safely.

Anything goes wrong and it would kill space exploration for generations.
Click to expand...

I actually disagree. It would be a significant setback, no question, but I think we're now at a point where a singular incident would not scare us out of space for a prolonged period.

As Grand mentioned we now have folks with determination and means to keep this going. There will absolutely be setbacks along the way, and as difficult as they'll be they are an unavoidable part of such an undertaking. We learn, make corrections and persist.
 
#872
#872
gcbvol said:
I actually disagree. It would be a significant setback, no question, but I think we're now at a point where a singular incident would not scare us out of space for a prolonged period.

As Grand mentioned we now have folks with determination and means to keep this going. There will absolutely be setbacks along the way, and as difficult as they'll be they are an unavoidable part of such an undertaking. We learn, make corrections and persist.
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i think a lot of how much of a negative it is depends on where/when it happens.

If its a Challenger explosion yeah that is pretty bad. if something goes wrong while in between the atmosphere and the moon and the people die I doubt it is much of a negative.
 
#874
#874
Grand Vol said:
I think it's the fact it hasn't been done in over 40 years and by less than 30 people ever is the attraction. There would be a lot of proof of concepts done as well with a SpaceX lunar flight. Even with a free return trajectory, the Dragon will have proven itself as a deep space craft that could (emphasis on could) rival the Orion system as the next "go to" for our space program. And the nice thing? It's been privately funded and developed. But if it was to orbit? Even more proof the private sector can (and has) rivaled NASA as a potential exploratory entity.

If Musk wants to get to Mars eventually, things like a lunar flight or two will go a long way in proving the design and how well the craft will hold up. He'll have to take small steps prior to making a great leap into the Red Planet. His real ambition is to land the Red Dragon on Mars (unmanned at first) in the next three years. Again, a craft going into deep space will allow for a hoop of tests prior to sending it deeper into space.

Anyway, I'd bet there are more than a few folks willing to cough up the money to do such a thing. With your proposal of heading into an "orbital vacation" I still say SpaceX needs to partner with Bigelow Aerospace and build a private space station designed for such things. The first private space station flown to and from on a private spacecraft? There's money in that idea. Far more than Virgin Galactic's suborbital flights.
Click to expand...

It isn't that I fault Space X for flying around the Moon, its that I don't understand a private citizen wanting to pay for that gig.
 
#875
#875
Grand Vol said:
On the subject, I'd imagine Trump had Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos talking his ear off about the privatization of space when they had that tech industry meeting. And truth be told, SpaceX and Blue Origin are what NASA was about 50 years ago aside from the steep learning curve. Both companies have a strong desire to reach out into the cosmos (undoubtedly some of it is financially driven) and are stopping at nothing to get there. They are innovators and creators striving for results with a clear goal in mind, not government bureaucrats collecting a paycheck. Trump is all about the private sector and probably knows SpaceX and others can do a better job than his own agencies.

I personally think that's a lot of what NASA lost after the Apollo program. Provided the funding wasn't exactly there, but they have lost a lot of the innovation and exploration desire needed to get off this rock. People like Bezos, Musk, Bigelow, Branson and others are pushing the envelope far more than any government could.
Click to expand...

I disagree completely.

NASA was quite innovative. Space Shuttle, ISS, explorers to Mars, etc. They were just doing a lot of unsexy stuff to prepare for the next really sexy mission (humans to Mars).
 
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