Space Exploration

Are NASA's future missions and budget justified?

  • It's worth the time and expenditures

    Votes: 223 66.0%

  • Complete waste of money

    Votes: 41 12.1%

  • We need to explore, but not at the current cost

    Votes: 74 21.9%
  • Total voters
    338
#876
#876
PKT_VOL said:
I disagree completely.

NASA was quite innovative. Space Shuttle, ISS, explorers to Mars, etc. They were just doing a lot of unsexy stuff to prepare for the next really sexy mission (humans to Mars).
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Emphasis on "was." The Space Shuttle concept actually goes back to the early 70s. The ISS was a natural successor to Skylab, though 20 years late. (Space Station Freedom was planned, but replaced by the ISS after we started cooperating with Russia) The Cassini probe, New Horizons, MESSENGER, Dawn, etc all came from the Discovery and New Frontiers programs. I'll give you the current Mars rovers, but everything else came from the private and science sector, though funded by NASA.

The problem, again, is how priorities change each time the White House changes. Clinton (Bill) was content to expand the ISS and work on unmanned probes (the Discovery Program started under him). Bush 43 put us on a path to return to the Moon and got the New Frontiers program running. Obama nixed the lunar return (as well as the Constellation Program) with the asteroid redirect mission and pushing NASA into the earth sciences realm. NASA did come up with the SLS and kept the Orion craft under Obama, but right now it's a rocket with no clear destination other than the ISS. As well as behind schedule and over budget. What Trump will do? Not sure yet.

In my opinion, NASA has lost it's way and is content to farm out the ideas to the scientific community instead of what they used to do. I see SpaceX doing what NASA is incapable of doing at the moment. While NASA still rides somewhat high approval ratings among the general public, it's become nothing more than another bloated government agency. Again, this is my opinion and watching the private sector set a goal like NASA used to do.

Some links if you're interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Program

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Frontiers_program
 
#877
#877
PKT_VOL said:
It isn't that I fault Space X for flying around the Moon, its that I don't understand a private citizen wanting to pay for that gig.
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People with money buy stupid stuff all the time. A space flight around the Moon makes as much sense as some purchases some of us would say "WTF...why?"
 
#878
#878
Grand Vol said:
Emphasis on "was." The Space Shuttle concept actually goes back to the early 70s. The ISS was a natural successor to Skylab, though 20 years late. (Space Station Freedom was planned, but replaced by the ISS after we started cooperating with Russia) The Cassini probe, New Horizons, MESSENGER, Dawn, etc all came from the Discovery and New Frontiers programs. I'll give you the current Mars rovers, but everything else came from the private and science sector, though funded by NASA.

The problem, again, is how priorities change each time the White House changes. Clinton (Bill) was content to expand the ISS and work on unmanned probes (the Discovery Program started under him). Bush 43 put us on a path to return to the Moon and got the New Frontiers program running. Obama nixed the lunar return (as well as the Constellation Program) with the asteroid redirect mission and pushing NASA into the earth sciences realm. NASA did come up with the SLS and kept the Orion craft under Obama, but right now it's a rocket with no clear destination other than the ISS. As well as behind schedule and over budget. What Trump will do? Not sure yet.

In my opinion, NASA has lost it's way and is content to farm out the ideas to the scientific community instead of what they used to do. I see SpaceX doing what NASA is incapable of doing at the moment. While NASA still rides somewhat high approval ratings among the general public, it's become nothing more than another bloated government agency. Again, this is my opinion and watching the private sector set a goal like NASA used to do.

Some links if you're interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Program

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Frontiers_program
Click to expand...

After the Apolo program...

It didn't lose it's way. It had to do a lot of various things well which weren't sexy. There are a lot of unsexy projects and technology which needed to be developed in order to realistically colonize Mars. Colonization being the key concept. Mundane tasks like water, sewage, growing food, continual oxygen, continual health while in space, reusable materials, etc. had to be developed.

For example, while SkyLab provided proof of concept, one needs long-term highly functional, highly-tested technology vs merely proof of concept in order to realistically colonize Mars. This is the problem. There was a huge difference between going to the Moon and going to Mars even though we could have easily reached Mars (on essentially suicide missions) a long time ago.

Having said all this, it is another discussion entirely about private competition (which I think is healthy) and some of NASA's waste.
 
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#879
#879
Grand Vol said:
People with money buy stupid stuff all the time. A space flight around the Moon makes as much sense as some purchases some of us would say "WTF...why?"
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Again, it was a bang-for-buck objection for me; not flying around the Moon per se.
 
#884
#884
PKT_VOL said:
I guess we have different ideas of cool.
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1l458w.jpg
 
#885
#885
Russia, US shoot for the moon with joint lunar station project

Uh oh. Trump has us involved in an evil Ruskie plot. The liberal science community has quite the dilemma on its hands. On one hand, do they participate in this project that will serve as a gateway to deep space. On the other hand, Russia is involved – which means they’ll undoubtedly slit our throats in space, populate the surface of the moon, build a moon cannon and fire it at the United States. Once we are obliterated, they'll invade the country and enslave all surviving Americans in moon-rock crushing factories.
 
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#886
#886
golfballs said:
Russia, US shoot for the moon with joint lunar station project

Uh oh. Trump has us involved in an evil Ruskie plot. The liberal science community has quite the dilemma on its hands. On one hand, do they participate in this project that will serve as a gateway to deep space. On the other hand, Russia is involved – which means they’ll undoubtedly slit our throats in space, populate the surface of the moon, build a moon cannon and fire it at the United States. Once we are obliterated, they'll invade the country and enslave all surviving Americans in moon-rock crushing factories.
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x240-f-n.jpg
 
#887
#887
golfballs said:
Russia, US shoot for the moon with joint lunar station project

Uh oh. Trump has us involved in an evil Ruskie plot. The liberal science community has quite the dilemma on its hands. On one hand, do they participate in this project that will serve as a gateway to deep space. On the other hand, Russia is involved – which means they’ll undoubtedly slit our throats in space, populate the surface of the moon, build a moon cannon and fire it at the United States. Once we are obliterated, they'll invade the country and enslave all surviving Americans in moon-rock crushing factories.
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They may even try to influence an U. S. election in advance of this, using various covert and overt means. Half the electorate will ignore the interference because of a strange political brand loyalty that supersedes reason, causing them to support a candidate which they know will work against both their and the US interests. Once elected this "Manchurian candidate" will start a needless war in a far off country in which many of these people will give up their lives, all the time cheering for the higher taxes and reduced health care benefits and access that his policies will punish them with.

Nah, that could never happen.
 
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Reactions: 1 person
#888
#888
golfballs said:
Russia, US shoot for the moon with joint lunar station project

Uh oh. Trump has us involved in an evil Ruskie plot. The liberal science community has quite the dilemma on its hands. On one hand, do they participate in this project that will serve as a gateway to deep space. On the other hand, Russia is involved – which means they’ll undoubtedly slit our throats in space, populate the surface of the moon, build a moon cannon and fire it at the United States. Once we are obliterated, they'll invade the country and enslave all surviving Americans in moon-rock crushing factories.
Click to expand...

Why are you righties such fruitcakes about almost everything. The US and Russia have been cooperating on space projects since before the end of the Cold War. Why? Because it's cheaper and advantageous to both of us. We don't cooperate with them on economic and geopolitical issues because our interests aren't the same. The only reason Trump wants to buddy up with them is to line his own pockets.

By the way we don't have a liberal space community. We have NASA and a few private companies. (Admittedly the private companies CEOs probably lean left)
 
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#889
#889
It is one thing for the private sector to get into the launch business--that makes sense. But the federal government is a major client of Space X; without government money, Space X would not survive.

As for Mars, I don't quite see the logic in it as the planet is not habitable and so anyone who goes there would have to live indoors. That means huge facilities. Getting to Mars will cost, er, astronomical amounts of money. No private companies are going to finance that themselves. While Mars seems a bit far-fetched to me, the necessity of finding another planet on which people can live is not far-fetched as we are rapidly destroying Earth--and that is no exaggeration. This is apparent to anybody with elementary-school observational and thinking skills--except for most conservatives and especially EPA chief and despicable human being Scott Pruitt. He should be tarred and feathered and sent back to Oklahoma.
 
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Reactions: 3 people
#890
#890
Looks like Lockheed Martin wants to be the competition to SpaceX.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLpZUMfIJX0[/youtube]
 

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#891
#891
MT LeConte said:
Why are you righties such fruitcakes about almost everything. The US and Russia have been cooperating on space projects since before the end of the Cold War. Why? Because it's cheaper and advantageous to both of us. We don't cooperate with them on economic and geopolitical issues because our interests aren't the same. The only reason Trump wants to buddy up with them is to line his own pockets.

By the way we don't have a liberal space community. We have NASA and a few private companies. (Admittedly the private companies CEOs probably lean left)
Click to expand...

MUH Russia
 
#895
#895
BigOrangeTrain said:
So I am confused now. Its cool if Trump buddies up with Russia to waste a ton of money. Trump has done many things to piss Putin off. But we should like Russia because of space? So is this some sort of liberal Schrodingers paradox?
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Even Ronald Reagan signed an agreement of cooperation in space exploration and technology with the "Evil Empire".
 
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