"sportsmanship" vs. running up the score

Is running up the score unsportsmanlike?

  • Total voters
    0
#51
#51
volinca said:
A coach's smartest move is to put the second string in and keep playing as if it were tied up. This way if your starting quarterback blows up his knee your back up will have experience and you won't have to throw a true freshman in against Alabama on the road.

I think it was Bobby Bowden who said "It's not my job to stop my offense."

...or maybe it was Confucious.
Click to expand...

Could be one and the same. Bobby and Confucious have been quoted plenty over the years.
 
#52
#52
daj2576 said:
I guess I don't see a problem with it. If you play a game to win or lose, inevitably some opponents will become rivals over time. Being a rival is a strictly emotional label created by series of emotional games. The Bama/UT series is a rivalry, an emotional rivalry, and again...no quarter should be asked for, and none given.

I shouldn't have to say this, but I will also include the obvious statement that I do not support hurting other players, or falling into that realm of "unsportsmanlike" conduct. I am simply saying that you play to win, you give your best, and if that means scoring many more points than your opponent. So be it.

A game is played for the chance to win and maybe even win big. That means a game comes with the chance to lose, or lose big. Without that dichotomy the wins and losses have no meaning to those who chose to play.
Click to expand...


In that case, we agree to respectfully, but PROFOUNDLY, disagree. Bryant's course of action is not one that I would exercise toward an opponent that I respected. Now an opponent that I genuinely disliked or an opposing coach with whom I had a personal vendetta would be a different story. Like Neyland, Bryant always spoke of the Tennessee-Alabama rivalry with great respect. That is why Bryant's conduct on 10/18/1980 struck me as so out of character.

Neyland, on the other hand, definitely believed that there was a gentlemanly boundary you did not cross without incurring his wrath. Here is one fan's remembrance of events which illustrate this principle:

"[Johnny] Vaught's wins over Neyland happened right after Neyland came back from WW2 and was in the process of rebuilding the Vols. The first time Vaught ran up the score and won 43-13. Neyland was irate, because Vaught obviously ran up the score. Neyland said he'd never hold back against Vaught. The next season, Ole Miss eeked out a 3 point win, but no more after that... The following season, UT beat Ole Miss by 28. The following season, UT beat Ole Miss by 35. The following season, UT won by 25. And 40 years later, in the last Tennessee game my father saw before he died, gentleman Johnny Majors took a knee and left the ball sitting on the Ole Miss 1 at the end of the game, with my Dad up in stands saying: "Go ahead and score. Neyland would have against Ole Miss" (cited in the comments section of https://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/mar/28/gen-neyland-50-facts-50th-anniversary/).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#55
#55
Volosaurus rex said:
In that case, we agree to respectfully, but PROFOUNDLY, disagree. Bryant's course of action is not one that I would exercise toward an opponent that I respected. Now an opponent that I genuinely disliked or an opposing coach with whom I had a personal vendetta would be a different story. Like Neyland, Bryant always spoke of the Tennessee-Alabama rivalry with great respect. That is why Bryant's conduct on 10/18/1980 struck me as so out of character.

Neyland, on the other hand, definitely believed that there was a gentlemanly boundary you did not cross without incurring his wrath. Here is one fan's remembrance of events which illustrate this principle:

"[Johnny] Vaught's wins over Neyland happened right after Neyland came back from WW2 and was in the process of rebuilding the Vols. The first time Vaught ran up the score and won 43-13. Neyland was irate, because Vaught obviously ran up the score. Neyland said he'd never hold back against Vaught. The next season, Ole Miss eeked out a 3 point win, but no more after that... The following season, UT beat Ole Miss by 28. The following season, UT beat Ole Miss by 35. The following season, UT won by 25. And 40 years later, in the last Tennessee game my father saw before he died, gentleman Johnny Majors took a knee and left the ball sitting on the Ole Miss 1 at the end of the game, with my Dad up in stands saying: "Go ahead and score. Neyland would have against Ole Miss" (cited in the comments section of https://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/mar/28/gen-neyland-50-facts-50th-anniversary/).
Click to expand...

I always enjoy your posts, I really do. And, like you said we profoundly disagree. So too, does this story about Neyland. If it was ungentlemanly for Vaught to run the score up on him the first time, it was summarily ungentlemanly of him to do the inverse every other time. Isn't the definition of unsportsmanlike conduct being used in this story about ego driving outcome, instead of ability driving outcome?

Where we disagree is that I don't see any of those outcomes as unsportsmanlike. Alternatively Majors leaving the ball at the 1 yard line, to me, is more taunting than running the ball into the end-zone and pointing at a pursuer. Again, I fail to see a problem with either.

Finally, (respectfully) do you think the General's Maxims of either 1) "Play for and make the breaks and when one comes your way - SCORE." or 2)"Carry the fight to our opponent and keep it there for 60 minutes" come with qualifications? Is the lost Maxim "only do these when it appears the game is in doubt."? ;)
 
Last edited:
#57
#57
I would prefer for the coaches with a set style/scheme/play calling pattern/ect to never deviate away from that just becuase they've acheived an overwhelming lead. I say, stick to the game plan and operate as if you were playing a tougher opponent at all times. Just simply remove the starters as soon as possible.

It serves a more important purpose than some might realize. The "second and third string guys" are one day going to have to make those same plays from that same book. It doesnt do them any good to come in and take a knee or run the clock out to show mercy.

Run it up.
Pull the starters.
Continue like business as usual with the backups.
Never let off the gas.

Every now and then a blow is just going to happen but I'd be damned if I asked a kid or another coach to not go 100%. To the opponent; sucks to be you, stop me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#59
#59
In the spirit of discussion pertaining to sportsmanship, running up the score and the general disdain with which we, as Tennessee fans, view James Franklin and the Vanderbilt program, here are some interesting details which illustrate why legendary Vol and, later, Coach George Cafego disliked Vandy so intensely. These were recorded in a conversation "among Cafego, Peyton Manning and Andy Kozar that took place Nov. 12, 1997. This was during Manning's senior season at Tennessee and was the final extensive interview of Cafego before his death:

Manning: You have a reputation for disliking or as it's put, "hating" Vanderbilt's football teams. Is it so and is it as serious a feeling as you've been quoted as saying?

Cafego: Well, two or three things. First thing, as football players, Neyland taught us to develop a dislike for the Alabama football team. Once we found out that Alabama's teams were just good football teams we realized we would have to do more than just play football against Alabama. You've got to get emotionally upset about them - dislike or "hate" them. And, the same came to be applied to Vanderbilt. But then with Vanderbilt players, something happened when some of our players worked on the TVA projects. Neyland would get UT players jobs on the river, and Vanderbilt players were also working on the same projects. University officials allowed that kind of work during the summers, to help kids make money. Bowden Wyatt [then a Vol end] worked there with other Vols. I don't remember who all. They got into a fight with Vanderbilt [players]. They just didn't like each other. Then later, I saw Vanderbilt teams come to play at UT, while I was coaching at UT, and the captains met at the center of the field at the UT logo. One of Vanderbilt's captains, in disrespect, spit several times on the UT Logo and rubbed it in with his shoe. That made me so angry. And, as a result, I wanted to "whip" our team for not busting the spitter in the nose, then and there. God, I couldn't stand that. This only made me dislike Vandy more. Then another time Vandy came to play at UT, one of their players ran through the" T" while our team was running through the "T," to mock our tradition. At the same game, a Vanderbilt player carelessly ran into a UT cheerleader shouting through a megaphone and injured her. It was these and other incidents that added to my dislike for the Vanderbilt players" (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...nYGICA&usg=AFQjCNGg8RaJ_JJFg1vXlT4c19zNJ5kZ5g).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#60
#60
Well here's your comparison for us on the other end:


Should Missouri have beaten us by more than 28? They clearly called off the dogs in the 3rd quarter.
 
#61
#61
Normally I would be in the play your back ups for experience camp . But , after all the crap talk and Jimmy Frank quips , just for this game .Hittem in the mouth repeatedly , Stomp on their necks until the final quiver dies away .

EDIT: Thats all rhetorical BTW well except for that candy azz O-lineman that was intentionally going blocks in the backs at knee level 2 years ago . Him you can shoot for all I care .
 
Last edited:
#62
#62
TrueOrange said:
Well here's your comparison for us on the other end:


Should Missouri have beaten us by more than 28? They clearly called off the dogs in the 3rd quarter.
Click to expand...

(I found this funny, although I don't support intentionally injuring players)
 

Attachments

  • sweep the leg.jpg
    sweep the leg.jpg
    20.3 KB · Views: 54
Last edited:
#63
#63
volatil said:
How many times have you heard "Bama only beat X team by 10-20 points"? It's ridiculous. Bama won on the road in the SEC this weekend and some media/fans think they aren't as good.
Click to expand...

Still, there is a fair point in what was said. The polls tend to reward 50-22 style victories much more than winning say 24-10.


Of course the polls are also a big part of the reason of what's faulty with college football.
 
#64
#64
beachbums624 said:
Normally I would be in the play your back ups for experience camp . But , after all the crap talk and Jimmy Frank quips , just for this game .Hittem in the mouth repeatedly , Stomp on their necks until the final quiver dies away .

EDIT: Thats all rhetorical BTW well except for that candy azz O-lineman that was intentionally going blocks in the backs at knee level 2 years ago . Him you can shoot for all I care .
Click to expand...

Intentionally trying to injure the other players is unsportsmanlike. I want a clean fair game, and I want both teams to not let up until the white flag waves, or the game clock hits zero. I don't want anyone taken off the field on a stretcher, but I want to look at the scoreboard and know both teams did absolutely everything in their power, for every second they played, to take it to their opponent and keep it there for 60 minutes.

For the record, I like both trash talking and offering a hand to help up a player from an opposing team when he is on his back. But I don't like fights, I want the "insult" to come from the scoreboard, not a fist between plays.
 
#65
#65
daj2576 said:
Intentionally trying to injure the other players is unsportsmanlike. I want a clean fair game, and I want both teams to not let up until the white flag waves, or the game clock hits zero. I don't want anyone taken off the field on a stretcher, but I want to look at the scoreboard and know both teams did absolutely everything in their power, for every second they played, to take it to their opponent and keep it there for 60 minutes.

For the record, I like both trash talking and offering a hand to help up a player from an opposing team when he is on his back. But I don't like fights, I want the "insult" to come from the scoreboard, not a fist between plays.
Click to expand...

See the edit
 
#66
#66
This thread has been a lot of fun. The last issue this polarizing was the music in the stadium.

Nice work daj2576, do you know how much productivity we've wasted on this :)

Wax on, wax off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#67
#67
daj2576 said:
.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, as the moral of that movie was "be Martin Kove and the cobra kai kid"


That even gets into more of a different question (about exploiting a weakness, be it by injury, damage, etc) versus what we're talking about...which would be if he already had won statistically but then decided he needed to punch Daniel in the nose for good measure.
 
#68
#68
oldsmokey67 said:
look how many times nick satan has done it to tennessee.have no mercy for that a-hole.one of these days he will get paid back big time and i hope i am around to see it.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, why are you picking out Saban and Bama as an example of a team running it up on Tennessee? With the obvious exception of 2009, Saban either went run heavy late in the game, or pulled his starters completely. When, exactly, did Bama run up the score?
 
#69
#69
TrueOrange said:
Ah yes, as the moral of that movie was "be Martin Kove and the cobra kai kid"


That even gets into more of a different question (about exploiting a weakness, be it by injury, damage, etc) versus what we're talking about...which would be if he already had won statistically but then decided he needed to punch Daniel in the nose for good measure.
Click to expand...

I actually found it because I thought it was a funny response to how people view running up the score. There is a huge difference between intentionally hurting your opponent physically, and just hurting his feelings (which will be hurt anyway with a loss).
 
#71
#71
bamawriter said:
Out of curiosity, why are you picking out Saban and Bama as an example of a team running it up on Tennessee? With the obvious exception of 2009, Saban either went run heavy late in the game, or pulled his starters completely. When, exactly, did Bama run up the score?
Click to expand...

Curiosity abounds. My own personal curiosity is why a fan of a rival school seems to feel compelled to not only post on his rival's message board, but then acts so perplexed as to why reverence and submission is not shown to "his" team-the enemy.
 
#72
#72
CommodoreCapital said:
Vandy took a knee last year on Tennessee, why the hatred for James Franklin.
Click to expand...

My hatred comes from the fact that fans can actually say something like this. That there might be any doubt that he held back is sickening. To me that is a bigger smack in the mouth than another score or two.

Believe me, if the situation was reversed, I would continue scoring until they turned the light off in that hole on west end, and all fan were snug in his/her bed, crying himself/herself to sleep.
 
#73
#73
daj2576 said:
Curiosity abounds. My own personal curiosity is why a fan of a rival school seems to feel compelled to not only post on his rival's message board, but then acts so perplexed as to why reverence and submission is not shown to "his" team-the enemy.
Click to expand...

I don't care whether anyone "shows reverence and submission." I don't even care that a Tennessee fan wants to see the Vols run the score up on Bama.

I'm simply inquiring as to why a particular poster (and by your response, perhaps I should include you) is upset about Bama running up the score on Tennessee when that isn't really supported by the facts.
 
#74
#74
jamesthesame said:
This is the message board equivalent of running up the score or taunting. :)
Click to expand...


No, it isn't. Daj2576 and I have never had one cross word with each other. Our discourse falls squarely within the category of spirited, but respectful, debate and I use that word in the classic sense, in contrast to the bickering or arguing which so often ensues in this forum.
 
#75
#75
bamawriter said:
I don't care whether anyone "shows reverence and submission." I don't even care that a Tennessee fan wants to see the Vols run the score up on Bama.

I'm simply inquiring as to why a particular poster (and by your response, perhaps I should include you) is upset about Bama running up the score on Tennessee when that isn't really supported by the facts.
Click to expand...

You can include whomever you want in your assumptions. It doesn't mean your assumptions are correct.

I don't care what Bama scores. I have been clear, if it were up to me I would never let off the gas. With that philosophy comes the expectations of no remorse if the tables are turned.

The bottom line is that I guess neither of us will get our questions answered.
 
Last edited:
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top