"sportsmanship" vs. running up the score

[daj2576]

No, it isn't. Daj2576 and I have never had one cross word with each other. Our discourse falls squarely within the category of spirited, but respectful, debate and I use that word in the classic sense, in contrast to the bickering or arguing which so often ensues in this forum.

We are kindred spirits, to be sure. I can't even recall, besides this, times that you and I actually disagree. We might arrive at different conclusions, but we do so (I believe) rationally and by weighing all evidence presented.

That being said, I sheepishly admit that I am responsible for the "like" of his post because it made me chuckle a bit.

 

[bamawriter]

You can include whomever you want in your assumptions. It doesn't mean your assumptions are correct.

I don't care what Bama scores. I have been clear, if it were up to me I would never let off the gas. With that philosophy comes the expectations of no remorse if the tables are turned.

And you've repeated this opinion numerous times in this thread. No one is confused as to what you think.

However, that opinion is in no way a response to my question to the other poster, so I'm not sure why you chose to jump in. While I'm all for talking smack whenever possible, in the future, don't quote me as if you're attempting to respond to what I wrote.

 

[BeecherVol]

Not a fan of keeping your 1s in for the 4th quarter when your up by 40.

That said, its up to you to stop the 2s and 3s on the opposing team when the time comes. They should not be expected to lay down when their number is called.

 

[daj2576]

And you've repeated this opinion numerous times in this thread. No one is confused as to what you think.

However, that opinion is in no way a response to my question to the other poster, so I'm not sure why you chose to jump in. While I'm all for talking smack whenever possible, in the future, don't quote me as if you're attempting to respond to what I wrote.

Wait...did you just accuse me of jumping into a conversation that I supposedly wasn't included in, in a thread that I started on a message board concerning my Alma Mater?

Meanwhile, you, a Bama fan, shows up on a UT message board, on a thread started by a UT fan/grad, and start barking out rules of conduct and decorum?

Seems there is one fish out of water here.

And since you are so bent on wanting answers for your question, at least have the respect to answer my statement directed to you. Again, why is it that you, a Bama fan on a UT board, seem to be so perplexed as to why people here (a UT message board) don't view your team reverently or even sometimes rationally?

It seems to me that you are the one with irrational expectations.

 

[YorkVol]

I have been thinking about this for a bit, but the prelude to the UT v. Vandy game this weekend has, to me, made this a more pertinent topic.

I have seen some posts where they allege that Franklin was classless going for the last score against Kentucky. I have read others who insist that Jones should run up the score on Vandy if given the option (I fall squarely in the latter category).

It strikes me as odd the way we look at sportsmanship. My thought is that both teams volunteered to play a game. A game's point, inherently, is to determine a winner, or a loser. A loser is no less a loser, if they lose by 1 point late in the game, or fall by 45 in the first half and never gain any ground.

Why then, is it poor form to continue scoring on an opponent? Shouldn't the paradigm be that when you step between these lines, that I am going to give you all I have, until either you quit or time runs out? I expect the same from you in return. Fight fair but don't expect quarter. I will ask for none.

Many say that this idea of "sportsmanship" is to keep from humiliating your opponent. I have two things to say to that, 1) any competitor who loses is going to be hurt, that is the nature of competition and 2) isn't it more humiliating to know that your opponent didn't even have to show you their capabilities because you weren't good enough to see them?

Isn't it more respectful of your opponent, if you are the superior team, to never let off the gas? That shows that you are capable enough to not be pitied. Being shown pity should be the MOST humiliating thing a competitor will ever face, not just getting beat by a superior foe badly.

Similarly stupefying is when I see an indication of coaches who complain to their opponent about running up the score. I would say that if you are getting beat badly whether you are out-talented or out-coached, you have the ability to simply give up. Wave the white flag, call the game. Conversely, you should never expect your opponent to give up or pull back just because your team isn't competing.

TL;DR
Sportsmanship doesn't mean treating your opponent like children, it means playing them as hard as you can until time runs out or they give up. Thoughts?

You go hard for as long as it takes to put the game away. If the game is clearly yours at some point you put in the 2s and 3s to get them some gametime experience. If they keep scoring, then good for them. But, what you don't do is risk your starters at the end of a butt stomping needlessly.

 

[govols105]

you don't have to leave your starters in to run up the score.. just train and prepare the 2nd and 3rd and 4th stringers to execute and show no mercy. instead of just going thru the motions.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

I don't care what Bama scores. I have been clear, if it were up to me I would never let off the gas. With that philosophy comes the expectations of no remorse if the tables are turned.

And you've repeated this opinion numerous times in this thread. No one is confused as to what you think.

BW is correct in this regard. Your poll, while interesting, is extremely biased (and as such of little value) based on your strong, personal beliefs. Those beliefs are also evident in the way the "choices" were expressed in the poll.

One could completely reverse the results by restating the options as follows...


Is running up the score unsportsmanlike?

• No; once a team is up by 40 points in the 4th qtr it is logical to put in your 2nd and 3rd string players so your starters do not get hurt.
• I don't care; a W or a L is all I look at.
• Yes; both teams should go as hard as they can, but for a coach to continue to play his starters at risk of injury is foolish
• other; explain in your response

 

[daj2576]

BW is correct in this regard. Your poll, while interesting, is extremely biased (and as such of little value) based on your strong, personal beliefs. Those beliefs are also evident in the way the "choices" were expressed in the poll.

One could completely reverse the results by restating the options as follows...


Is running up the score unsportsmanlike?

• No; once a team is up by 40 points in the 4th qtr it is logical to put in your 2nd and 3rd string players so your starters do not get hurt.
• I don't care; a W or a L is all I look at.
• Yes; both teams should go as hard as they can, but for a coach to continue to play his starters at risk of injury is foolish
• other; explain in your response

I found myself reading your response and laughing, not at you but at myself. Yours are the exact responses I had to give on many academic papers regarding the fault in survey systems.

As a base line evaluation, the poll is balanced. It shows a positive, a null, and a negative. Not only that but it gives an option for "other", and for anyone to leave an opinion in that regard. I didn't have a focus group or the time or interest to formulate completely non-leading questions. Nor did I want to.

Why?

This is a UT message board. Any results from any poll on here are of little value. lol

There are an almost infinite number of options that could be used to qualify answers. I didn't find any of them interesting or even appropriate. My goal is only to see, unscientifically, if people are generally favorable to running up the score or not within the modifiers that I placed on those statements (if the argument for or against is related to the idea of pity/humiliation).

Your critiques are generally appropriate and well reasoned...if I was writing a thesis from these results. I am surprised that you didn't make a case that the poll fails because it is in no way made up of a representative sample of any demographic besides people who post on Tennessee sports message boards, during normal working hours.

Your response is the same one I have had to make many times, especially on the occasion when the results were unfavorable to my position. That is the perfect time to question the methodology or the pollster.

 

[99gator]

i have seen my school hammer other teams. i have seen my school get hammered.

when you are really good and are playing the game the way you dream that your team would.....

you enjoy every damn bit of it and don't show the least bit of sympathy.

one of the things that ticked me off most about opponents who would cry during the spurrier era is that there were years where those schools had no problem beating the crap out of florida. the beatings florida laid on opponents during the spurrier and urban meyer eras are the best memories i have.

screw the opponent.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

There comes a point where it is advantageous to shorten the game by running clock rather than running up the score. It lessens the risk of injury to your own as well as your opponent's players in a game where the outcome has already been decided.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[UNAVol89]

How many times have you heard "Bama only beat X team by 10-20 points"? It's ridiculous. Bama won on the road in the SEC this weekend and some media/fans think they aren't as good.

What's sad is that most of those fans that don't think Bama is as good are Bama fans.

They don't deserve for that team to be as good as it is.

 

[bamawriter]

Wait...did you just accuse me of jumping into a conversation that I supposedly wasn't included in, in a thread that I started on a message board concerning my Alma Mater?...


...It seems to me that you are the one with irrational expectations.

I asked a question of another poster. You jumped in, talked junk, and repeated your opinion. The question wasn't directed to you, and you in no way answered it. Now you are complaining about my question.

Fun times on the interwebs...

 

[Other_Guy]

It greatly depends on how much better the winning team is or how badly the losing team plays. Most of the time coaches aren't trying to run up the score. It happens when teams wear down a defense while their defense is fresh. It happens when the opposing team's 3rd stringer is better than the other's starters.

 

[99gator]

i'll tell you the other reason i enjoy "running it up" on the opponent.

you don't have to deal with the other fan base doing the whole "we should have won" crap.

you beat someone by 30 and the other team's fans don't say squat

 

[bamawriter]

i'll tell you the other reason i enjoy "running it up" on the opponent.

you don't have to deal with the other fan base doing the whole "we should have won" crap.

you beat someone by 30 and the other team's fans don't say squat

Unless you're talking about LSU fans. Even if you beat them by 30, LSU was always just two or three plays from winning the game. Or the refs screwed them.

 

[LA Vol]

Someone sent me this in an email. Apparently, it was posted on the lone Vandy football forum:

"Given how UT has been so parasitical on the rest of the Conferences' bowl money, I question whether they should be in the SEC at all."

That from a fan of a team that has been to a bowl 3 TIMES in the past century and profited far more than any other team from SEC affiliation! I hope we come out wanting blood and keep punching all game long.

 

[99gator]

Unless you're talking about LSU fans. Even if you beat them by 30, LSU was always just two or three plays from winning the game. Or the refs screwed them.

i have experienced that same phenomenon with another fan base.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Someone sent me this in an email. Apparently, it was posted on the lone Vandy football forum:

"Given how UT has been so parasitical on the rest of the Conferences' bowl money, I question whether they should be in the SEC at all."

That from a fan of a team that has been to a bowl 3 TIMES in the past century and profited far more than any other team from SEC affiliation! I hope we come out wanting blood and keep punching all game long.

Lol
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[daj2576]

I asked a question of another poster. You jumped in, talked junk, and repeated your opinion. The question wasn't directed to you, and you in no way answered it. Now you are complaining about my question.

Fun times on the interwebs...

I did answer it indirectly...by saying (I'm paraphrasing myself) that it is more telling that rival fans are surprised that UT fans, on a UT fan site, do not view Bama with reverence or even rational thought.

If that is "junk" talking, I just don't know what to tell you.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Here's another interesting question. Last year we're leading Georgia State 51-13 and trying to run out the clock with under 2 minutes left. Bill Curry called all of his timeouts. Was he showing poor sportsmanship?
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[GAMECOCK]

play hard ......run it up only on your rival. Or clemsux if they are not your rival.

 

[Godfatha]

If you're up big and the game is no longer in doubt, put the reserves in and let them play. First, they deserve it for going to practice day in and day out. Second, you build valuable experience.

There's very few coaches who I have seen that I would consider unsportsmanlike, Urban Meyer being principle one and the king of all of douchery.

 

[hightower52]

when we play teams that we know we will beat yeah just run out the clock try to stay in good health but vs vandy hang 100 on them

 

[volatil]

Can't recall the coach but Jim Rome use to play a clip on his show of a college coach answering questions in post game. Reporter asked "coach why did you go for two up by so many points?"
Coach responds " because they wouldn't let me go for 3".

 

[VFL34]

I have been thinking about this for a bit, but the prelude to the UT v. Vandy game this weekend has, to me, made this a more pertinent topic.

I have seen some posts where they allege that Franklin was classless going for the last score against Kentucky. I have read others who insist that Jones should run up the score on Vandy if given the option (I fall squarely in the latter category).

It strikes me as odd the way we look at sportsmanship. My thought is that both teams volunteered to play a game. A game's point, inherently, is to determine a winner, or a loser. A loser is no less a loser, if they lose by 1 point late in the game, or fall by 45 in the first half and never gain any ground.

Why then, is it poor form to continue scoring on an opponent? Shouldn't the paradigm be that when you step between these lines, that I am going to give you all I have, until either you quit or time runs out? I expect the same from you in return. Fight fair but don't expect quarter. I will ask for none.

Many say that this idea of "sportsmanship" is to keep from humiliating your opponent. I have two things to say to that, 1) any competitor who loses is going to be hurt, that is the nature of competition and 2) isn't it more humiliating to know that your opponent didn't even have to show you their capabilities because you weren't good enough to see them?

Isn't it more respectful of your opponent, if you are the superior team, to never let off the gas? That shows that you are capable enough to not be pitied. Being shown pity should be the MOST humiliating thing a competitor will ever face, not just getting beat by a superior foe badly.

Similarly stupefying is when I see an indication of coaches who complain to their opponent about running up the score. I would say that if you are getting beat badly whether you are out-talented or out-coached, you have the ability to simply give up. Wave the white flag, call the game. Conversely, you should never expect your opponent to give up or pull back just because your team isn't competing.

TL;DR
Sportsmanship doesn't mean treating your opponent like children, it means playing them as hard as you can until time runs out or they give up. Thoughts?

Unless franklin has disrespected jones or our players personally then no we do not run up the score. It's an unwritten rule. Teams take notice when you do that and it will come back around.