Status of Coach Willie Martinez

[BobbyMcGee]

to give clarity.. I was an attendee of an HBCU in the 90's Martinezs' first position coach job was at Bethune Cookman. A band school. In HBCU's (TSU alum here) band schools were teams that would whup your a$$ at the halftime show but the product on the feild... not so much. During that period of time Bethune had a good band. Their halftime show was on point. 5 wins a season was an accomplishment, the peak of expectations. He came in after a strong 4 win season and was part of an 8 win team. He parlayed that to a job at Grand Valley State which was an HBCU power during that time. Grand scheme grand valley was not great but in their pond they ruled the band schools. Their band was so-so BTW back then. He graduated from that to directionals but decent directionals (NAIA/DIV2). Then he went straight to the big-time SEC/BIG12. he has been a power5 DB coach for 23 years with a 2-year stop at UCF. he has earned the AHC title at 3 schools and DC at one. This guy has earned his stripes. Now they are doing wholesale changes in the secondary and you'd best believe he is behind that. Give this guy the next season or two and lets see where it goes. How bad our secondary has been has been way overplayed. Our football team has played winning enough football for 3 years. The games we have lost is when the offense stalled out. Its not like they are getting toasted by everyone. 2023 we gave up 29+ 3 times 2022 same 2021 6.

Since banks and Martinez came in we have given up significantly less PPG than the period of time before that we won't mention. It has improved year to year. We have made an opposing offense lay an EGG every year. The proceeding 12 years teams we shoulda beat to death with our second string were posting 30 on us. 2021 we got some spankings but it has decreased. How many games were we never in it in 2022 and 2023? Before that we were getting some serious lambastings multiple times a year.. The last 2 years the defense had 2 bad games each period. With our offense, the defense can have 2 and almost every team including ones that win nattys have 1 or 2 a year. Our issue is our bad defensive games tend to be predicated by the offense being bogged down (or refs).

Yes based on expectations our defense had not been the heroes. but under realistic expectations of improvement and context on the past it's been great. over the last 155 years, we have seen a lot way worse but not much if any better.. So the question is whats your move? Are you gonna be delusional and say unless we egg ourt every opponent our defense suck FAHR X. Or will we look at if its getting better because the numbers say it IS. Unquestionably.

This is flamebait and there will be flames but before it starts I would like the flamers to at least apply some logic or stats to make their points.. they won't but my points has been made to the ones that matter. Spend 5 minutes on Google looking at stats. dont parrot billy bob.

Hello Willie.

 

[LWSVOL]

What about NONE of our DB's turning to find the ball? That's what drives me absolutely nuts. You see Ala, Ga, Mich, Ohio St, Mizzou and even Fla DB's turn to track the ball, but none of ours. Are they not coached to do that??

all coaches coach players to do that. But its a skill. You watch WR to determine "when" to turn.. its something you learn and you have to have athletic ability to do it.

Your talking a different athlete with the schools you mentioned (outside of Missouri, they are generally on par with Tennessee) as UTs are not in the same level of talent.

 

[jasonvol18]

Our secondary has improved every year. Check the numbers.

Did you completely miss what I said or can you not interpret? I said on paper they have improved, but we played 6 teams with zero passing offense. The 4 teams we played that could actually throw the ball averaged almost 300 yards a game. Our number this year were a little misleading. We played VA, Iowa, A'M, A. Peah, UTSA, Vandy and Uconn. All have terrible QB's and didn't pass on ANYBODY! The 5 we did play, 4 of them lit us up. Rattler was the only one that didn't. We made Leary and Cook look like Heisman Winners. So I reiterate, we played horrible pass offense's in 8 of our 13 games. Numbers are going to look better because of that. Check the teams that actually had a QB and look at the numbers. And 4-5 of the bad pass offense's we played had their 2nd or 3rd string QB starting. NOBODY can say our secondary was good. Even with playing 8 bad pass offense's, we still were 45th in pass D.

 

[Vol8188]

Did you completely miss what I said or can you not interpret? I said on paper they have improved, but we played 6 teams with zero passing offense. The 4 teams we played that could actually throw the ball averaged almost 300 yards a game. Our number this year were a little misleading. We played VA, Iowa, A'M, A. Peah, UTSA, Vandy and Uconn. All have terrible QB's and didn't pass on ANYBODY! The 5 we did play, 4 of them lit us up. Rattler was the only one that didn't. We made Leary and Cook look like Heisman Winners. So I reiterate, we played horrible pass offense's in 8 of our 13 games. Numbers are going to look better because of that. Check the teams that actually had a QB and look at the numbers. And 4-5 of the bad pass offense's we played had their 2nd or 3rd string QB starting. NOBODY can say our secondary was good. Even with playing 8 bad pass offense's, we still were 45th in pass D.

Every team gives up more yards to better teams. That’s how it works. The best rushing defenses for example gave up more yards than their average when they played better offenses. That’s how this works.

 

[jasonvol18]

all coaches coach players to do that. But its a skill. You watch WR to determine "when" to turn.. its something you learn and you have to have athletic ability to do it.

Your talking a different athlete with the schools you mentioned (outside of Missouri, they are generally on par with Tennessee) as UTs are not in the same level of talent.

I agree, but we've had DB's that are now in the NFL, that were coached by Martinez. They didn't turn and track the ball here but can suddenly do it in the NFL?

 

[Vol8188]

Did you completely miss what I said or can you not interpret? I said on paper they have improved, but we played 6 teams with zero passing offense. The 4 teams we played that could actually throw the ball averaged almost 300 yards a game. Our number this year were a little misleading. We played VA, Iowa, A'M, A. Peah, UTSA, Vandy and Uconn. All have terrible QB's and didn't pass on ANYBODY! The 5 we did play, 4 of them lit us up. Rattler was the only one that didn't. We made Leary and Cook look like Heisman Winners. So I reiterate, we played horrible pass offense's in 8 of our 13 games. Numbers are going to look better because of that. Check the teams that actually had a QB and look at the numbers. And 4-5 of the bad pass offense's we played had their 2nd or 3rd string QB starting. NOBODY can say our secondary was good. Even with playing 8 bad pass offense's, we still were 45th in pass D.

This is such a dumb argument. In one of the four you’re claiming was just so bad we gave up 220 passing yards to Bama. How terrible!

Another one of the four you’re claiming was so bad was Missouri: 275 passing yards, only 13 above their average. But 116 of those were to their running back and almost 100% of those yards were with LBs covering him.

 

[jasonvol18]

Every team gives up more yards to better teams. That’s how it works. The best rushing defenses for example gave up more yards than their average when they played better offenses. That’s how this works.

Not every team, not ones that can play pass defense. ! And again, you're missing my point. Our pass defense numbers were a little watered down because of playing 8 horrible pass Defense's. Just like a few years ago, fans said our rush Defense numbers were watered down because everyone threw on us.Similar situation, our pass D was only 45th because we played 8 horrible passing teams with over half on 2nd and 3rd string QB's. That's all I'm saying.

Here's some examples.. Leary averaged 211 pass yards a game, he threw for 372 on us.Milroe was about on his avg, but 170 were in the 2nd half. Cook threw for more than his avg, over 20÷ yards more, Same with Beck and he didn't even play the 4th QTR. Even Uconn's QB averaged 188 a game and threw for over 220. The rest of our opponents were on 2nd and 3rd string QB's. So my main argument was our pass D numbers were greatly watered down due to playing so many horrible pass offense's and QB's.

 

[Fatman Photos]

When you have crap to work with that is the product you produce thus all the DB's moving on. Hopefully the new ones that will be playing will be a better product.

 

[jasonvol18]

This is such a dumb argument. In one of the four you’re claiming was just so bad we gave up 220 passing yards to Bama. How terrible!

Another one of the four you’re claiming was so bad was Missouri: 275 passing yards, only 13 above their average. But 116 of those were to their running back and almost 100% of those yards were with LBs covering him.

This is an even dumber argument. Again, I'll dumb this down as much as possible because you obviously aren't intelligent enough to comprehend it. We averaged 218 pass yards given up. The 4 games we played against passing teams we gave up 290. We played 8 terrible pass offense's, which makes our numbers look better than they actually are. That's my argument and there's nothing about that that can be argued. It's simple to confirm by looking at box scores.

VA, A, Peah, UTSA, Tex A'M, Iowa and even Vandy started QB's against us that weren't starters most of the year and had horrible pass offense's anyway. As far as Milroe, it was bad because he had maybe 50 pass yards the 1st half. We threw for 170 the 2nd half, which last time I checked is really bad. Cook didn't have to throw much in the 4th, he could have put up 350 if they had wanted. When he did pass, we couldn't stop anything through the air.

So again for the comprehending impaired, this was my main message. Watered down results because of our schedule against really bad pass teams. This is literally worse or as bad as trying to reason with Bammers. I'm embarrassed for you!

 

[Vol8188]

Not every team, not ones that can play pass defense. ! And again, you're missing my point. Our pass defense numbers were a little watered down because of playing 8 horrible pass Defense's. Just like a few years ago, fans said our rush Defense numbers were watered down because everyone threw on us.Similar situation, our pass D was only 45th because we played 8 horrible passing teams with over half on 2nd and 3rd string QB's. That's all I'm saying.

Here's some examples.. Leary averaged 211 pass yards a game, he threw for 372 on us.Milroe was about on his avg, but 170 were in the 2nd half. Cook threw for more than his avg, over 20÷ yards more, Same with Beck and he didn't even play the 4th QTR. Even Uconn's QB averaged 188 a game and threw for over 220. The rest of our opponents were on 2nd and 3rd string QB's. So my main argument was our pass D numbers were greatly watered down due to playing so many horrible pass offense's and QB's.

You don’t get to discount the entire schedule and then cherry pick 2 games. Yes, we gave up a lot to Kentucky. We also loaded the box and sold out to stop the run and…it worked.

Beck is an elite QB who had multiple 300+ games.

UConn scored 3 points but you’re going to pretend there was a problem because they had under 220 passing yards? What a joke

You can make this same lame argument about every team. Every team gives up less yards to the lower tier opponents and more to the better teams. That’s how it works.

We haven’t had 3 years of across the board statistical improvement on defense because of 3 consecutive years of decreased competition. It’s an ignorant argument.

 

[Vol8188]

This is an even dumber argument. Again, I'll dumb this down as much as possible because you obviously aren't intelligent enough to comprehend it. We averaged 218 pass yards given up. The 4 games we played against passing teams we gave up 290. We played 8 terrible pass offense's, which makes our numbers look better than they actually are. That's my argument and there's nothing about that that can be argued. It's simple to confirm by looking at box scores.

VA, A, Peah, UTSA, Tex A'M, Iowa and even Vandy started QB's against us that weren't starters most of the year and had horrible pass offense's anyway.

So again for the comprehending impaired, this was my main message. Watered down results because of our schedule against really bad pass teams.

Still waiting on your examples of our DBs in phase and not turning around

 

[Godfatha]

We will see if we make any strides on defense this year. WM can at least recruit. Tim Banks, I am not sold on.

 

[LWSVOL]

I agree, but we've had DB's that are now in the NFL, that were coached by Martinez. They didn't turn and track the ball here but can suddenly do it in the NFL?

when you say turn and track the ball, at what point are you expecting that? From LOS? 15 yards downfield? 25 yards? Just trying to understand expectations

 

[Vol8188]

I agree, but we've had DB's that are now in the NFL, that were coached by Martinez. They didn't turn and track the ball here but can suddenly do it in the NFL?

Show your examples. Where are all these plays with our DBs not turning?

 

[Volfan8282]

When you have crap to work with that is the product you produce thus all the DB's moving on. Hopefully the new ones that will be playing will be a better product.

We’re going into year 4 of Heupel. If we’ve had “crap to work with,” then that’s squarely on the coaches for lack of recruiting and/or developing. I’ve grown tired of that argument.

 

[Vol8188]

We’re going into year 4 of Heupel. If we’ve had “crap to work with,” then that’s squarely on the coaches for lack of recruiting and/or developing. I’ve grown tired of that argument.

So you believe his first recruiting class should’ve been one of the best secondaries in the country as sophomores?

 

[GoVols64]

Wow, this got spicy! Nothing like calling everyone you are debating with dumb because they disagree with you.....

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Rebuttal to most posters in this thread (excerpts from Martinez UT bio):

Martinez mentored Cameron Sutton, who became a shutdown corner and set the school career record for passes defended (37) before being selected in the third round of the 2017 NFL Draft by the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Martinez’s defensive backs averaged over 13 interceptions per season during his first stint at Tennessee, and his 2014 squad notched 16 picks to rank No. 15 nationally and third in the SEC. Nigel Warrior (2016) and Todd Kelly Jr. (2014) both earned spots on the SEC All-Freshman Team under Martinez’s tutelage.

With Martinez on staff, the UCF Knights defense allowed just 22.7 points per game in 2018 and ranked sixth in the nation with 28 forced turnovers. UCF racked up 8.2 tackles for loss per game – fifth-most in the nation – while tallying 29 sacks. Sophomore defensive back Richie Grant led the way with six interceptions, which was tops in the AAC and No. 3 in the nation. Second-half adjustments marked a key to the Knights’ success as opponents scored just 8.5 points per second half, including 3.3 points per third quarter.

Martinez helped push the Knights to a No. 34 total defensive ranking in 2019—59 ranking spots better than in 2017, the year before he arrived in Orlando. The UCF pass defense yardage average fell below 200 yards for the first time since 2014—as the Knights improved their NCAA ranking in that category by 83 slots over two seasons.

The UCF secondary helped the squad lead the nation in tackles for loss per game in 2019 (9.08), while ranking third in team pass efficiency defense (108.86) and fifth in third-down conversion defense (0.293). UCF’s passing yards allowed figure in 2019 (199.5) marked the best for the Knights since 2014. The defense also ranked third in the nation in passes defended (78) and fifth in opponents' yards per play (4.57). Among AAC teams in 2019, UCF was No. 1 in third-down defense, yards per play allowed and pass efficiency defense.

Cool story. But what does any of that got to do with his failures here?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

When you have crap to work with that is the product you produce thus all the DB's moving on. Hopefully the new ones that will be playing will be a better product.

Really? So we shouldn’t expect our coaches to take what they are given and develop it? Wow. What a novel concept.

 

[Behr]

You know, the guy you're yelling at, 8188, I think he's really a coach. A no-joke, does it for a living coach. High school, iirc. So I don't think you can guarantee any such thing.

90% of Volnation doesn't agree with you. 90% of Volnation thinks you're an immature hot-head. And crude, to boot.

Go Vols!

...and that's being nice.

 

[volfan102455]

If they would just let the coaches in this forum coach, we would never lose a game.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Did you completely miss what I said or can you not interpret? I said on paper they have improved, but we played 6 teams with zero passing offense. The 4 teams we played that could actually throw the ball averaged almost 300 yards a game. Our number this year were a little misleading. We played VA, Iowa, A'M, A. Peah, UTSA, Vandy and Uconn. All have terrible QB's and didn't pass on ANYBODY! The 5 we did play, 4 of them lit us up. Rattler was the only one that didn't. We made Leary and Cook look like Heisman Winners. So I reiterate, we played horrible pass offense's in 8 of our 13 games. Numbers are going to look better because of that. Check the teams that actually had a QB and look at the numbers. And 4-5 of the bad pass offense's we played had their 2nd or 3rd string QB starting. NOBODY can say our secondary was good. Even with playing 8 bad pass offense's, we still were 45th in pass D.

Nobody can say CWM was allowed to change out the room till this year and nobody can say any other coach could have got more out of those that were here. Everybody can do a trend analysis after this year.

 

[Vol8188]

You know, the guy you're yelling at, 8188, I think he's really a coach. A no-joke, does it for a living coach. High school, iirc. So I don't think you can guarantee any such thing.

90% of Volnation doesn't agree with you. 90% of Volnation thinks you're an immature hot-head. And crude, to boot.

Go Vols!

I got out of it eventually, but yes. I spent a decade as a DB coach and defensive coordinator, including one state championship.

 

[DaddyChad]

Hey I looked at this wrong and read it as “Statue of coach Willie Martinez”.

I would almost pay for that one just to see the reaction of Volnation.

 

[Volfan8282]

So you believe his first recruiting class should’ve been one of the best secondaries in the country as sophomores?

Where did I say that it should’ve been one of the best secondaries in the country?